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[Suggestion] Implement Live Chat on BHW - It's the missing golden feature

Discussion in 'Forum Suggestions & Feedback' started by yakuzaemme, Aug 17, 2019.

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Live Chat Board Implemented on BHW

  1. Yes - it would be a nice feature

  2. No - I don't like it

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. yakuzaemme

    yakuzaemme Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I've spent 2 hours researching this. PLEASE - make sure you read it all before leaving your comment(s).

    BlackHatWorld is great. There's thousands of super talented people on here. The reason why BHW is considered the #1 IM forum by many is because of the extremely in-depth discussions that takes place, how well-moderated it is and how open members are about sharing 'secrets'.

    There's one problem though:

    BlackHatWorld, in it's current form, is designed to be a forum for discussions. And the current BHW content is not that.

    The homepage is filled with 'junk'. What I mean by that is questions that doesn't spark any discussion.

    Example of threads I see filling the homepage right now:

    Please note that ^ those are all displayed at the same time. I would qualify them as genuine questions deserving of an answer - but it's not a topic for discussion the entire forum (or an entire subforum) would benefit of.



    Let's imagine I am totally new to BlackHatWorld, and I want to learn more about Instagram Social Marketing.

    I head to the subforum Social Media > Instagram.
    The threads I see are these:


    Again - all valid questions. But do they open up for a big discussion for the big majority to learn from? No.
    Could they be answered with 1 reply, and is mostly only benefitial for the OP? Yup.


    - - - - - - - - -

    So, what am I suggesting?

    Implement a live chat board. This will open up for much, much faster communicating between members of the forum.

    This will open up for quick replies. Questions like "What panel works right now" could be answered quickly, and leave no footprint 3 months later.

    I've done some digging, and found that CometChat works really well with XenForo (the platform BHW uses).


    How would BHW (as a business) benefit from it?

    1. Increase quality of the threads on the forum drastically
    2. Increase time spent per user on website drastically

    What features does CometChat have, apart from chat board?

    1. Different roles (Moderator, Jr. Vip, Normal Member etc)
    2. Automatically logged in as your forum user (with avatar, username etc)
    3. Ability to kick/ban users from livechat
    4. Word filtering
    5. User can report conversations or messages
    6. Admin can add advertisements (for example UnGagged)
    7. Desktop and mobile push notifications (this is a big one!)


    - - - - - - - - - - -

    I truly believe this CAN be something that will do wonders for the forum.

    It will become a direct competitor to the thousands of Discord/Slack channels for internet marketing - and will have best of two worlds (in-depth discussions in forum format - and chatting ability), which can bring massive traffic and new members to the forum.

    It would become a much more respected forum as it would be clean of the 'junk' threads - which can bring even more talented people, more advertisers and a cleaner brand.


    I hope this gets considered, and hope that I'm not the only one feeling that it would be an amazing feature that could only benefit both the members and the forum itself.

    Thanks for your consideration,
    Emil
     
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  2. AestheticHustler

    AestheticHustler Regular Member

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    As I participated in the thread which resulted in you doing this suggestion thread, I'm pretty much up-to-date on what you meant, however the plugin you're mentioning doesn't seem like the livechat I kinda imagine. Your suggestion CometChat looks more like a live support chat and would be a completely unnecessary add-on to the normal DMs.
    The only thing which would be understandable whatsoever, is the suggestion / wish for a "shoutbox" / chatbox on the BHW start page (as many forums do have it).

    However, there are many points against it:
    - This expression is kind of bothering me: What is so negative about having "saved" footprints / threads to quote or dig up in the future. When doing research on BHW, I often read threads from years ago where users asked questions like you mentioned. They might not be up-to-date, but in these threads you find users who are experienced with, for e.g. panels and can look through their threads. Moreover, these threads are often way beyond the original topic and expand to multiple sub-topics which might cover later upcoming questions and are definitively worth saving and being looked up in the search engine. (Ofc that isn't a rule of thumb for all threads)
    - If we're talking about a global chatbox: It's way more work for moderators. These chatboxes are usually trashed with links, insults and just used for basic chatting.
    - Last but not least, for now, the lack of a chatbox is a "unique" characteristic of BHW that elevates them over some of the other forums. Basically, BHW cuts all the bullshit and is straight focused on respective topics, small talk can be done in The Lounge or via DM.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  3. yakuzaemme

    yakuzaemme Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Ahh - my bad! Something like ChatWee is what I meant, I thought CometChat was exactly that. My bad!

    Absolutely.
    What this stems in is how the forum can be optimized.
    Questions like "Unfollow on GMT" or "I need an FB ad account, does anyone know a good legit seller here on market place?" will actively HIDE valueable discussions, which does result in fewer people seeing the tons and tons of good content being shared on here.

    Only allow chat to members with 100 posts? Implement a new account upgrade for $3.99/month for chat? Give Jr. Execs the right the kick people?

    Which the chat should be, too. Clear rules, and failure to abide and you're kicked from the chat or that specific room (subforum).

    - - -

    Thanks for your feedback! Some valid points, but I still think the pros outweighs the cons.

    Obviously there's tons of details to figure out, but hey, gotta start somewhere.
     
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  4. Myst3ry

    Myst3ry Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Good idea.
     
  5. satyr85

    satyr85 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    You are 100% right, you are also right forum is flooded with threads like these ones you mention in your post (threads made by people looking for quick answer/help etc).

    But... ;p

    Nothing force people to use chat instead of making such threads on forum. People want to get attention to their questions, so many will likely make a thread instead of writing something in chat.

    You are 100% right, but probably chat won't be a solution. A solution would be newbie subforum - until user make X threads and is on forum longer than Y days he can only start new threads on newbie subforum. Threads from newbie section are not displayed on BHW homepage.

    Whats also quite important - lets say newbie ask a question on chat, someone give very detailed answer to this question on chat. It won't be indexed, it can be re-used etc.

    Overall chat is a perfect idea for questions "like IG is down for me, how about you guys" but it wont solve problems with junk threads, only newbie subforum or something similar would solve that problem.

    For me personally making a new thread here and asking a question is a privilege, I see this as a privilege and this privilege is overused by people who register, make few worthless posts and spam BHW with questions answered million times instead of using the search function.

    Just my 2 cents :)
     
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  6. AestheticHustler

    AestheticHustler Regular Member

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    No worries. Yeah, indeed, ChatWee looks better (exactly like the normal chatbox I've mentioned)

    You're absolutely right, though, I still have my problems with the thought that these wouldn't be archived or aren't able to be looked-up in the future.

    The second one would make BHW look like a money-thirsty forum. First option is pretty self-explanatory and being used in many forums, thumbs up for this! :)
    Furthermore, I wouldn't give Jr. Execs the permission to kick people, but maybe add a new role - Chatbox mods (I can imagine what @BassTrackerBoats's opinion is on this new rank suggestion :p)

    In combination with chat mods or some basic regulations, it could work out. Nevertheless, in the end it's more work for the BHW team :/

    To be honest, you've (significantly) changed my opinion on this matter. I'm not 100% pro behind this idea, but your points and replies to my inquiries made the suggestion more acceptable - even though I'm not the biggest chatbox fan on other forums as these are usually trashed. (maybe, I'm / was just lurking in the wrong forums).
    If the idea / concept is implemented well it could actually be of a good use ;)

    //BTW: As a non-native english speaker, I've just learned a new idiom. :D
     
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  7. yakuzaemme

    yakuzaemme Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Well, for this to work properly, new rules would have to be put in place to not ask 'non-discussion-worthy' questions, and instead refer to chat. For starter this can be stuff like "Is Instagram down?", and be added on as we go.

    I understand where you're coming from - but I think this may be a risky move. Newcomers will be isolated and risk believing BHW can't help them or isn't for them, which is the last thing we want.


    Very good point. If somebody does give detailed answers, it will most likely not be seen again later on. But then again, chat shouldn't be used for detailed answers (or lengthy, in-depth discussions).


    Thanks for the feedback! You rock!

    Please see above. There will absolutely be golden nuggets shared through chat that will be disappearing - BUT I think the amount of valueable content in the threads will be much more visible, so it will make up for it.


    Quite possibly. Could perhaps restrict it for a starter to Jr. Vip, figure out the best regulations and workflow and then open up to the general public. I'm sure mods are better experienced in this, I wouldn't have a clue to be honest.

    Cheers man. And I am exactly like you - I HATE chat boxes. It screams 2005. But then again, I've never been on such a well-moderated forum, and quite honestly I'm surprised by the level of maturity from BHW members (just like you showed now), so I think we'll be fine.
     
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  8. Meddie

    Meddie Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Will be spammed to death as twich chat.

    If 100 people write same time you will understand absolutely fk all.
     
  9. yakuzaemme

    yakuzaemme Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Obviously, there would be organized channels or rooms, whatever the correct term is.

    There's ~80 subforums on BHW. Let's say only 1/4 qualify for a livechat room - would make it a total of 20 rooms, each dedicated to their topic.

    That along with proper rules shouldn't be a problem, I think.
     
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  10. AestheticHustler

    AestheticHustler Regular Member

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    I don't rock? :weep:

    Jokes aside, I hope someone of the BHW staff will take position on this matter and explain their reasoning and problems so we can find proper solutions to fix their issues and maybe implement a chatbox on BHW in the near future.

    The fact that BHW is so well-moderated and has such an active staff is one of the reasons I'm part of BHW. :)
    On a side note: Thanks for the compliment.
     
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  11. satyr85

    satyr85 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Again you are 100% right, my idea is a double-edged sword. Anyway your ideas and contribution to forum are awesome, waiting for "mod in training" next to your username :D
     
  12. yakuzaemme

    yakuzaemme Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Thanks man! And I wouldn't take the moderating role even if I was paid six-figures - I don't even want to imagine the level of hard work, patience, frustration and everything else moderators of any community has to endure.

    I still really like BHW, and if this doesn't get implemented I won't be leaving anytime soon.

    I just know how this forum may appear to other IMers, both beginners and professionals.

    Beginners wants quick help, ask very specific questions and learn the foundation of whatever topic they are researching.
    Professionals wants to take part in the real discussions, down to the details, and avoid the clutter.

    This is just my suggestion on how to bring the best of two worlds together - while at the same time benfitting BHW both in growth and financially.
     
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  13. Ravzar

    Ravzar Junior Member

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    Moderating a chat of 100 people in it isn't that hard. A few things I would say about this:

    1. There used to be huge IRC chats which were easily moderated by bots even in the 90s.
    2. It was easy to moderate by bots because you just have a spam protecting feature that silences people or kicks people at certain levels of chat (more than 3 lines in 5 seconds etc)
    3. A moderator only very occasionally intervened and were afk most of the time since bots just did such a good job at moderating the chat.
    4. Bots can also silence or kick people for using certain words.
    5. In IRC you could, for example, give trusted non-moderators a "+" of various rights. The + might give them the right, for example, to silence a user or kick a user for 15 minutes. While they could not ban and have less rights than a mod it took the load off the mods having to be there all the time and as such a channel could be run with a very small skeleton crew even if it was quite big. There were such things as session + or temporary + where a mod would give the power to someone for a certain period of time while they were away to keep things at bay (you can do alot of control with being able to silence people from the chat or kick them for 15 mins even if you can't ban them).
    6. Chat mods don't need to be forum mods.
    7. You can give the user an option to report something to a moderator or a + user
    8. There were many other options like you could only post once every 5 seconds. Further, even if 100 people were in the chat or even 500 they don't all talk at once due to time zones. In some cases I saw large IRC chats remain silent for hours even. At some point everything that could be said by the regular users has been said and so you just get questions from new people/interesting discussions.
    9. There could be some barriers to entry to the chat like being verified or accepted or having a post count of 5 to prevent spam.
     
  14. yakuzaemme

    yakuzaemme Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I'm a sucker for data, so I wrote a quick little script to scan a few subforums.

    Here are the results:
    BlackHat Lounge: 269 of 400 threads has less than 2 pages
    BlackHat SEO: 290 of 400 threads has less than 2 pages
    Blackhat SEO Tools: 292 of 400 threads has less than 2 pages
    Proxies: 323 of 400 threads has less than 2 pages
    Facebook: 320 of 400 threads has less than 2 pages
    Instagram: 256 of 400 threads has less than 2 pages
    Pinterest: 304 of 400 threads has less than 2 pages
    Web Hosting: 281 of 400 threads has less than 2 pages
    White Hat SEO: 301 of 400 threads has less than 2 pages
    Cryptocurrency: 198 of 400 threads has less than 2 pages
    Making Money: 234 of 400 threads has less than 2 pages

    Pretty interesting.
     
  15. Heiko

    Heiko Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Cool Idea, i suggested something similar in the past to DD in the PM, but it wasn't as detailed as yours. Curious to see what mods think of this idea!
     
  16. Sephrata

    Sephrata Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Moderation will be your problem if it's open to the entire forum because a chat room would require real-time moderation.

    Although there are quite a number of BHW moderators, many of them are not active (some have not been active for over a year).
     
  17. dabz5

    dabz5 Regular Member

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    The forum will lose its purpose if there is a chat. The civilized discussion is going to become uncivilized, i can imagine 100 people typing in the same time as on youtube:poop:
     
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  18. jimbobo2779

    jimbobo2779 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    We had IRC years ago, it was a fine place for people to come and ask a quick question, get a snarky reply but ultimately get sorted quickly.

    It became less and less used and then unceremoniously removed. I would love to have irc back but I guess that isn't the way things are done these days.
     
  19. BBulldog

    BBulldog Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    My two main concerns are:

    1. Moderation - The mods can't monitor both the forum and the live chat at the same time. I'm not sure they could moderate the live chat at all without losing sanity and spending every waking minute staring at the screen. I'd rather have mods clean up the forum than the live chat.

    2. Dragging people away from the forum (even if it's on the forum) - The point of the forum is that what you ask (and others answer) stays here forever. You may think there are a lot of repetitive threads, but a lot of people do use the search function and get their answer that way. Imagine if people started answering through live chat, the forum would slowly start dying.
     
  20. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    They would have to go through the same vetting process which is a process that takes a lot of time and very few qualify.
     
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