Please note: This is discussion to determine if I'm alone on this island, this is not a forum suggestion. This is a long investigation. Bear with me. SHOULD SMM PANELS BE BANNED FROM BHW? TL;DR: 9 REASONS WHY I THINK YES Let's walk through some facts. 1) SMM Services are inundating and filling the Social Media section of the Marketplace with what is essentially the same exact service offerings. Let's look at a screenshot. Here it is. This is the Social Media section by default, screenshot at 10:15pm EST on Friday, October 18th 2019. There are 18 stickies, a rules thread by Damien, and 20 other threads on that page. Of those 38 threads, 9 stickies (HALF) are SMM panels. Five other threads on that page are SMM panels as well, unless I'm missing some that are SMM panels disguised as "other services". I moved to page two, and saw eight more. 22 SMM panel threads that have been bumped in some way in the past 24 hours. 2) SMM panels are notoriously low-quality for customer service and presence in the Shitlist. So far in 2019, there have been 10 shitlist threads (that have not been deleted) centered around SMM panels and dishonest sellers. Don't believe me? Let's count: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 That's out of a little over 50 total shitlist threads this year thus far that have not been deleted. Almost 20% of all shitlist threads that make it to the public eye and remain live are SMM panels and typically revolve around various activities that center around lack of accountability due to reselling, lack of comprehension due to language barriers, or lack of customer service due to laziness or ignorance. 3) SMM panels are consistently skirting around rules, case 1 For this example, I'm going to look at the nine stickied SMM panels. These are the threads: https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/i...youtube-and-other-profiles-in-minutes.880892/ https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/s...vices-custom-comments-90-services-api.817573/ https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/s...ice-all-social-media-services-working.853801/ https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/t...s-now-its-your-turn-youtube-instagram.882422/ https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/f...-starts-from-0-01-k-all-smm-services.1124569/ https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/s...ll-social-media-available-250-service.990511/ https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/b...rketing-smm-net.1096348/page-86#post-12497908 https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/a...ia-boost-cheap-and-fast-500-services.1091637/ https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/i...m-facebook-youtube-twitter-soundcloud.993132/ I'll also tag them all in to see if they have any insight to provide. Although I am doubtful, as of the nine the only member I have seen posting outside of their own threads or their various shitlists is @SMMnet @Instant-Fans @HaxTuTorial @zeelive @overtrade @mirajkadam @smm-heaven @SMMnet @AMPServices @vinothmech All of these sellers, with the possible exception of @vinothmech , are offering "credit" to test services. These compensated review copies/test balances are not going through the processes outlined in the Marketplace Rules, Disclosure of Compensated Review Copies, which states: These "test balances for review" clearly fall within those constraints above. However, the masses of people bumping threads with test balances lead to many/most of them not posting reviews, and those who do are in most cases failing to note that they were offered a free review copy in exchange for the review of the service. 4) SMM panels are consistently skirting around the rules, case 2 Of those same nine stickied sales threads posted above, at least 4 of them are requiring that users who want to receive a test balance, or those who create accounts, post in their thread, acting as a cesspool of inflated bumps, and minimizing the effect of actual product reviews. Here is some of the copy found denoting this: Simply create an account on our site and post your username on this thread Once you have registered post the username you used to register on this thread, so I can set the reseller rates Simply create an account on our site and post your username on this thread (this is a different thread than the first quote above) REGISTER & COMMENT YOUR USERNAME 5) SMM panels are straight up breaking rules, case 1 @Zwielicht 's Marketplace Content Standards state the following regarding Un-Quantifiable Claims: We refer to claims that are hyperbolic or cannot be proven as un-quantifiable claims... We also don't allow any claims that are inaccurate, false or impossible to guarantee, such as the following... With many examples of what not to do. However, still, the following unquantifiable claims are being made, again looking at just the 9 stickied threads: "YTBot is your best solution" "The World’s #1 Automated Social Media Services Provider" "SMM Best Panel recommended by Industry Peers" "Our clients are making money every month!" "LITERALLY ALL SERVICES WITH LIFETIME GUARANTEE OR YOU CAN CALL IT GUARANTEE FOR 124 YEARS" (yes, this is real) "World's #1 automated social media reseller panel" "We offer the best prices for..." "The most used panel in the world" (and claims 28 million users...) "HIGHEST QUALITY SERVICE IN THE MARKET" "BEST PANEL SUPPORT IN THE MARKET" (both this and the prior were by the same member, who ironically has more than one shitlist) "Information kept 100% confidential" "LIFETIME WARRANTY" "100% SAFE" The threads that I was not able to find unquantifiable claims were due to them being so poorly written that I don't think the sales copy writer/thread designed would have been able to make one. 6) SMM panels are straight up breaking rules, case 2 Again, in the content standards for threads by @Zwielicht: You must include a refund policy in your thread. @Instant-Fans does not have a refund policy. @overtrade does not have a refund policy. Again, this is just among the nine stickied threads. I don't have time to look through the dozens of others (remember, 22 in the past 24 hours have been bumped). 7) SMM panels have abysmal refund policies that should be against BHW TOS for marketplace sellers As this thread made perfectly clear, and was mentioned by multiple mods, as well as legal information provided by a few members, you cannot hold buyers' money "deposited" into panels. No services have been rendered. I understand not refunding if you are a content writer. But deposited balances are not money spent. These borderline-scam "I'm going to hold any money you don't spend" refund policies are predatory towards members. @Instant-Fans doesn't even have a refund policy on their site, or any TOS! @zeelive refuses to refund after a deposit has been made per their sales thread. @overtrade has no refund policy on their thread or site. @smm-heaven says this, which is absolute bullshit: "Should you open a dispute, instead of asking for a refund, we will keep 50% of the disputed amount while we gather evidence for our submission of the refund." @AMPServices states the following on their site, which is even more bullshit: "We reserve the right not to refund anyone, if We find it necessary, also if He experienced issues not caused by us. Every chargeback request can lead to the termination of the account without any refund. Any complaint can lead to the termination of the account without any refund" And @vinothmech says: "No refund of money at any case once funds uploaded." 8) SMM panels are literally offering the exact same services It's the same shit! Every one of these threads are offering the same shit. Some of them are copying from other BSTs word for word. Others have the exact same pricing. Others have the same exact product listing pages on their sites. Some have the same damn themes. Some are entitled enough to think that their product listing pages are copyrighted material. It's the same bottom of the barrel bullshit, 22 times in the past 24 hours. The only difference is that the customer service ranges from absolute subhuman trash (@smm-heaven) to "just okay" (@SMMnet). 9) Almost all of these SMM panels are resellers themselves This means that they are not the ones actually providing the services, just middlemen in the situation. I understand outsourcing. However, you should be required to have control of the services offered. ESPECIALLY IF YOUR REFUND POLICY IS AS GARBAGE AS SOME OF THE ABOVE. We literally have sellers claiming that they are the best and fastest SMM panel, denying refunds after a deposit was made, requiring minimum deposits, and then having zero control over whether or not the job actually gets done! The icing on the cake, you ask??? Many of these SMM resellers are branding themselves as genuine, and then offering reseller rates themselves! Who knows how many levels of reselling is going on in here! I recall a shitlist a year or so back that centered around two of the lowest quality members I have ever seen, @Cesarios and @stuna Stuna was selling reskinned bots. Cesarios was reselling those same reskinned both. This is no different than what is going on here. Sellers are reselling services that are resold in the first place. This is dishonest, confusing, and decisions and final deliverables are outside the seller's control. A MASSIVE issue if YOUR REFUND POLICY IS AS GARBAGE AS SOME OF THE ABOVE. -- Most of the above facts and figures are based on threads that are stickied in the Social Media section. As such, I would think that they go through even more rigorous standards for BHW to consider them quality enough to be prominently displayed. I don't even want to try and go into the non-stickied SMM panels. I think these have got to go. Social networks are cracking down on inflated false activity anyway. I say let's scrap these notoriously shit services and get to a BHW where quality and customer service are more important than making a quick buck from people who are supposed to be your brothers in arms. Why didn't you report these threads, @Sherb? I've heard several people being told they were abusing the report feature by mass reporting threads and being infracted for doing so. I'm all about reporting issues when I see them, and submit quite a few a week, but I'm not about that life. I would like to hear some other opinions, though.