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[DISCUSSION] Should SMM Panels Be Banned From BHW?

Discussion in 'Forum Suggestions & Feedback' started by Sherb, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. Sherb

    Sherb Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Please note: This is discussion to determine if I'm alone on this island, this is not a forum suggestion.

    This is a long investigation. Bear with me.

    SHOULD SMM PANELS BE BANNED FROM BHW?
    TL;DR: 9 REASONS WHY I THINK YES


    Let's walk through some facts.

    1) SMM Services are inundating and filling the Social Media section of the Marketplace with what is essentially the same exact service offerings.

    Let's look at a screenshot. Here it is. This is the Social Media section by default, screenshot at 10:15pm EST on Friday, October 18th 2019.

    There are 18 stickies, a rules thread by Damien, and 20 other threads on that page. Of those 38 threads, 9 stickies (HALF) are SMM panels. Five other threads on that page are SMM panels as well, unless I'm missing some that are SMM panels disguised as "other services". I moved to page two, and saw eight more. 22 SMM panel threads that have been bumped in some way in the past 24 hours.

    2) SMM panels are notoriously low-quality for customer service and presence in the Shitlist.

    So far in 2019, there have been 10 shitlist threads (that have not been deleted) centered around SMM panels and dishonest sellers.

    Don't believe me? Let's count: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

    That's out of a little over 50 total shitlist threads this year thus far that have not been deleted. Almost 20% of all shitlist threads that make it to the public eye and remain live are SMM panels and typically revolve around various activities that center around lack of accountability due to reselling, lack of comprehension due to language barriers, or lack of customer service due to laziness or ignorance.

    3) SMM panels are consistently skirting around rules, case 1

    For this example, I'm going to look at the nine stickied SMM panels. These are the threads:


    I'll also tag them all in to see if they have any insight to provide. Although I am doubtful, as of the nine the only member I have seen posting outside of their own threads or their various shitlists is @SMMnet

    @Instant-Fans @HaxTuTorial @zeelive @overtrade @mirajkadam @smm-heaven @SMMnet @AMPServices @vinothmech

    All of these sellers, with the possible exception of @vinothmech , are offering "credit" to test services. These compensated review copies/test balances are not going through the processes outlined in the Marketplace Rules, Disclosure of Compensated Review Copies, which states:



    These "test balances for review" clearly fall within those constraints above. However, the masses of people bumping threads with test balances lead to many/most of them not posting reviews, and those who do are in most cases failing to note that they were offered a free review copy in exchange for the review of the service.

    4) SMM panels are consistently skirting around the rules, case 2

    Of those same nine stickied sales threads posted above, at least 4 of them are requiring that users who want to receive a test balance, or those who create accounts, post in their thread, acting as a cesspool of inflated bumps, and minimizing the effect of actual product reviews.

    Here is some of the copy found denoting this:
    • Simply create an account on our site and post your username on this thread :)
    • Once you have registered post the username you used to register on this thread, so I can set the reseller rates
    • Simply create an account on our site and post your username on this thread (this is a different thread than the first quote above)
    • REGISTER & COMMENT YOUR USERNAME
    5) SMM panels are straight up breaking rules, case 1

    @Zwielicht 's Marketplace Content Standards state the following regarding Un-Quantifiable Claims:

    We refer to claims that are hyperbolic or cannot be proven as un-quantifiable claims... We also don't allow any claims that are inaccurate, false or impossible to guarantee, such as the following...

    With many examples of what not to do.

    However, still, the following unquantifiable claims are being made, again looking at just the 9 stickied threads:
    • "YTBot is your best solution"
    • "The World’s #1 Automated Social Media Services Provider"
    • "SMM Best Panel recommended by Industry Peers"
    • "Our clients are making money every month!"
    • "LITERALLY ALL SERVICES WITH LIFETIME GUARANTEE OR YOU CAN CALL IT GUARANTEE FOR 124 YEARS" (yes, this is real)
    • "World's #1 automated social media reseller panel"
    • "We offer the best prices for..."
    • "The most used panel in the world" (and claims 28 million users...)
    • "HIGHEST QUALITY SERVICE IN THE MARKET"
    • "BEST PANEL SUPPORT IN THE MARKET" (both this and the prior were by the same member, who ironically has more than one shitlist)
    • "Information kept 100% confidential"
    • "LIFETIME WARRANTY"
    • "100% SAFE"
    The threads that I was not able to find unquantifiable claims were due to them being so poorly written that I don't think the sales copy writer/thread designed would have been able to make one.

    6) SMM panels are straight up breaking rules, case 2

    Again, in the content standards for threads by @Zwielicht:

    You must include a refund policy in your thread.

    @Instant-Fans does not have a refund policy. @overtrade does not have a refund policy. Again, this is just among the nine stickied threads. I don't have time to look through the dozens of others (remember, 22 in the past 24 hours have been bumped).

    7) SMM panels have abysmal refund policies that should be against BHW TOS for marketplace sellers

    As this thread made perfectly clear, and was mentioned by multiple mods, as well as legal information provided by a few members, you cannot hold buyers' money "deposited" into panels. No services have been rendered. I understand not refunding if you are a content writer. But deposited balances are not money spent.

    These borderline-scam "I'm going to hold any money you don't spend" refund policies are predatory towards members.

    @Instant-Fans doesn't even have a refund policy on their site, or any TOS! @zeelive refuses to refund after a deposit has been made per their sales thread. @overtrade has no refund policy on their thread or site.

    @smm-heaven says this, which is absolute bullshit: "Should you open a dispute, instead of asking for a refund, we will keep 50% of the disputed amount while we gather evidence for our submission of the refund."

    @AMPServices states the following on their site, which is even more bullshit: "We reserve the right not to refund anyone, if We find it necessary, also if He experienced issues not caused by us. Every chargeback request can lead to the termination of the account without any refund. Any complaint can lead to the termination of the account without any refund"

    And @vinothmech says: "No refund of money at any case once funds uploaded."

    8) SMM panels are literally offering the exact same services

    It's the same shit! Every one of these threads are offering the same shit. Some of them are copying from other BSTs word for word. Others have the exact same pricing. Others have the same exact product listing pages on their sites. Some have the same damn themes. Some are entitled enough to think that their product listing pages are copyrighted material.

    It's the same bottom of the barrel bullshit, 22 times in the past 24 hours. The only difference is that the customer service ranges from absolute subhuman trash (@smm-heaven) to "just okay" (@SMMnet).

    9) Almost all of these SMM panels are resellers themselves

    This means that they are not the ones actually providing the services, just middlemen in the situation. I understand outsourcing. However, you should be required to have control of the services offered. ESPECIALLY IF YOUR REFUND POLICY IS AS GARBAGE AS SOME OF THE ABOVE.

    We literally have sellers claiming that they are the best and fastest SMM panel, denying refunds after a deposit was made, requiring minimum deposits, and then having zero control over whether or not the job actually gets done!

    The icing on the cake, you ask???

    Many of these SMM resellers are branding themselves as genuine, and then offering reseller rates themselves! Who knows how many levels of reselling is going on in here!

    I recall a shitlist a year or so back that centered around two of the lowest quality members I have ever seen, @Cesarios and @stuna

    Stuna was selling reskinned bots. Cesarios was reselling those same reskinned both. This is no different than what is going on here. Sellers are reselling services that are resold in the first place. This is dishonest, confusing, and decisions and final deliverables are outside the seller's control. A MASSIVE issue if YOUR REFUND POLICY IS AS GARBAGE AS SOME OF THE ABOVE.

    --

    Most of the above facts and figures are based on threads that are stickied in the Social Media section. As such, I would think that they go through even more rigorous standards for BHW to consider them quality enough to be prominently displayed. I don't even want to try and go into the non-stickied SMM panels.

    I think these have got to go. Social networks are cracking down on inflated false activity anyway. I say let's scrap these notoriously shit services and get to a BHW where quality and customer service are more important than making a quick buck from people who are supposed to be your brothers in arms.

    Why didn't you report these threads, @Sherb? I've heard several people being told they were abusing the report feature by mass reporting threads and being infracted for doing so. I'm all about reporting issues when I see them, and submit quite a few a week, but I'm not about that life. I would like to hear some other opinions, though.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  2. royserpa

    royserpa Elite Member

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    They should stay but rules must be enforced.
     
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  3. Daddykins

    Daddykins Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I think rules should be more enforced (which is difficult, considering their nature), or something should be changed. I've placed orders on SMM panels to test a service, even after the user said the service works. I deposit and guess what? The service doesn't work. So now I'm out of the money because they don't refund deposits
     
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  4. yaoyo

    yaoyo Junior Member

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    #stopthepanels
     
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  5. seopencil

    seopencil Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Social media panel is on-demand, but those must stay under BHW rule
     
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  6. TinyOctopus

    TinyOctopus Junior Member

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    The rules need to be enforced on refunds and a bit of overhauling is essential
     
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  7. Heiko

    Heiko Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    It's great that we have people like you Sherb, that do not fear of bringing stuff like this up. This stuff should have been brought up way earlier but its good that someone finally makes a whole topic just covering this.
    I wouldn't ban the entire SMM Panels. However, there is no "work" involved in just straight up making a panel and reselling shit from other panels, while providing horrible support. In my opinion there should be no resellers here anymore. Only people who can provide real value (i.e. their own generated Youtube Views, or their own likes, made by their own accounts).

    I wanted to start an own SMM Panel, for 1 platform only that was only going through my custom made bot, with my custom made accounts. That's something that still should be accepted, because you don't have to rely on any provider. When it fails, its your fault. These refund policies that you have mentioned above are pathetic, i seriously hope that BHW takes actions against these people.

    So here is what i would do:

    1. Get rid of resellers that provide a shitty support and no value at all
    2. Allow SMM Sellers that have their own panels set up with own made services (with their own accounts)
    3. Let SMM Sellers rewrite their refund policy and enforce stricter rules for SMM Panels.
     
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  8. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    In time the bad panels will be removed. Remember JAP?

    One problem with refunds is the fees and bonuses. If a person deposits $10 via Paypal, and Paypal takes $1 in fee and the buyer gets $10 on panel balance and then wants a refund, it gets tricky. Because if the money is sent back, is it sent minus the initial fee? And if its refunded using Paypal's system im pretty sure the seller is still taking a small loss because of it.

    And if a payment is made using a method where bonus is given, again the refund gets a little tricky. You pay $50 with Payoneer and you get 5% bonus so you get $52.50 in your balance. Now you want a refund. It cant be a full refund, cant be refunding the bonus.

    I believe Instant- fans does have a refund policy which states that any remaining balance you have in your account can be refunded to you. I know he had one about a year ago when i last saw it, not sure if anything changed in the meantime.

    About some salesthreads having horrible text. I mean, come on, not everyone can create a badass salesthread... and not everyone wants to. That said, i believe some elementary standards should be upheld. Fucking capitalization and corrent use of commas would be a good start. Whatever is written on the page, at least make it fucking readable. Because its one thing to write a bad salesthread but another to have never graduated elementary school.

    At the end of the day the panels who are consistently bad will be removed in due time. But i did see a thread on the shit list the other day. Nit sure if it was a panel, but this seller apparently jerked a customer around for a few weeks, and then the customet opened a shit list and won a redund. But he wouldnt come on the shitlist thread to confirm that he had gotten the refund. And so the seller was crying about it, probably because his salesthread was locked by a mod who was waiting for the buyer to confirm he had gotten the refund. Mmm poetic justice, i fucking loved it.

    But that "ignore a customer for weeks" should be a total fucking no tolerance. A few days, one week, fine okay. But anything over that is just insulting and should not be tolerated unless the seller got hit by a bus or is in a coma or dead. Then its fine.

    And frankly, fuck you and your dog and your vacation and your college exams, and even your health to a point. If youre gonna do business do it, constantly and consistently. And if you aint hire people to fill in. But if you cant be reached for weeks at a time then you should be out. I dont know, 3 strikes and youre out.

    Ok now im ramblong a bit.

    Mods are doing a good job. In time the bad panels will be removed and the good ones will remain.
     
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  9. IGKing

    IGKing Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Thanks for the quality research @Sherb

    As much as I would appreciate all panels to be destroyed in a big explosion, I doubt that's going to happen considering the circumstances.

    I think a reasonable solution to this problem is removing resellers (which should remove 90% of them), but that would be an extremely tedious task for the staff.

    Do you propose any solution on how we can weed out resellers?

    lmao these tags

    [​IMG]


    Also, while it's on the docket, let's also ban all IG eBooks launched post-2016. Thanks.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  10. William702

    William702 Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    I'm sick of seeing people create 5 page shitlist threads for a $4 balance on some garbage site. As if the mods dont have better things to do than spend hours dealing with multiple people over a few dollars. I know that the amount should not and is not taken into account but the people starting threads should have their head examined. I know what I think about people who cause excessive drama over a few dollars and I cringe at the proof some of these people present, it shows them in a worse light than the person they are raising the issue with in many cases. I think a lot of the drama and inefficient use of mods time could be avoided by removing several of the worst offenders who are clearly OK with robbing people a dollar at a time.

    I know a upvote and downvote system could be abused horribly but there has to be some form of that which could be run by moderators and based on infractions that could work. If a seller gets a shitlist upheld then their thread is removed from stickies or taken down for a week or anything to deter it more than it is right now. I 100% think the current system of dealing with this sort of thing is broken. I dont blame the mods, they are working with the tools they have and the policies that are in place.

    I do think a restructure is in order and at the very least a rethink on how these threads are displayed on the site. If just one panel could rise above the rest and prove their worth then all the others could go bye bye. I think there will always be a place for these services but the SMM landscape as it is here on BHW currently is utter garbage.

    Thank you @Sherb for taking the time to be as thorough as you have been, even for skimming just the main threads that is a lot of effort to make things better for everyone else.
     
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  11. dragunyhf

    dragunyhf Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I know I'm a minority here with saying this, but...

    SMM panels played a significant role in my ability to make money. Without bhw and the threads here of some of these panels I'd have missed some very valuable options to make money. Sure the quality of many services is questionable but not everything they sell there is doomed to be bad.

    Please don't PM me for recommendations or any further details on what I order (I'll ignore those) , I only wanted to show that this is not onesided and they DO have usage.
     
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  12. nakamura

    nakamura Elite Member

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    I was just waiting for this thread. Thanks for the effort. I think I am registered with around 10 SMM panels?

    It is just insane how most of those SMM panels doesn't even have a refund policy. Just a few days ago I was talking to one, who said to add funds I have to spend at least $100. I asked him for a refund policy and he said he doesn't have one. So basically I would just add $100 to his panel and if his service is not working the money is lost. Ridiculous shit.

    I don't even want to start about all those guys who are offering services, which are not working at all. Ordered instagram likes, got nothing. Support not replying. I think the BHW marketplace has a big quality problem. There are a few awesome seller on here, but at least 70% of them are full of shit. Offering low quality, lying in their product description, having no refund policy, very poor to none existing support. No one on here should make fun of Fiverr actually. At least on Fiverr I know what I pay for.

    Unfortunately this situation will NOT change. For the same reason why guys like Maria and Sarkark still have their threads going on, even they have been exposed a few times.
     
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  13. Naysayer

    Naysayer Junior Member

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    Though I do agree with what ya all say I don't think we should be the ones who get to decide who opens a BST here and who does not. The rules should be enforced but not stopping people from running a business.

    How are these panels different from all the sellers with those Diversity packages, Web 2.0 services or guest posts?
    Same services and some sellers outsource while others do it themselves.
     
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  14. William702

    William702 Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Not at all mate, I'm sure a lot of people appreciate your post. I agree with you and I have been in the same boat. There is still use for some of these services. I just think the whole landscape has changed a lot over the last 5- 10 years and not in a positive way. I do concede that there is an element of greed involved with people's perceptions of SMM panels. It was easy to turn $10 into $10,000 back in the golden days of SMM panels but that is long gone and the severe drop in quality and consistency has really changed people's minds on how effective and economical of a strategy using them can be. Good luck with the PM's by the way :)
     
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  15. GenesisOne

    GenesisOne Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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  16. Daggermouthx

    Daggermouthx Junior Member

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    SMM panels are fucking useless. Kill em all.
     
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  17. baldane

    baldane Junior Member

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    not all. Some really usefull
     
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  18. weirdo23

    weirdo23 Regular Member

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    Most of them are not even worth it, so my answer would be yes... But we should keep the valuable ones if they follow the rules and change a few things. We dont have to ban them all, so i guess quality over quantity is really important.
     
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  19. ellay

    ellay Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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  20. Captain_Nothing

    Captain_Nothing Regular Member

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    I think most of the panel owners are afraid to invest back into their business to make a better service for everyone
    1 - check all your services before offering them, if the service isn't working don't fuckin' offer it.. it's not rocket science.
    2 - refund users if they have good reason even you take a loss, it's a part of business.

    The panels rather lose their Paypal for chargebacks rather then refund unhappy customers.
     
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