Discussion in 'Forum Suggestions & Feedback' started by Sherb, Oct 19, 2019.
Bans from BHW
No. They should stay #smmlivesmatter
I can't respond to all of these at the moment since it's midnight, but I'll answer the ones I can.
Regarding sellers with poor customer service, lately I've been refining the marketplace review process to test a seller's customer service before the actual review starts to prevent sellers with abysmal customer service skills from selling on the forum. In the meantime, piss-poor customer service can usually be found in the review either as a direct statement and, if they're my reviews, in the form of a dark red header.
Likewise, regarding language barriers, this is something I've felt needs to be addressed before they have a sales thread rather than once a shit list thread starts. On occasion, I have dealt with sellers who can't understand me nor are they bothered enough to hire someone who speaks English, which complicates the review process and acts as a time-suck away from other sellers with pending BSTs. Because of this, I have considered adding a hard-rule in the marketplace, but at the same time I don't want to inundate sellers or the rest of the forum with even more rules.
This one is interesting, although I rarely see reports on this issue. If you find any more like this, you can either report the issue or contact a marketplace moderator to look into the issue.
Before a thread is tested, we (the marketplace moderators) look over them for unquantifiable claims. Threads with unquantifiable claims are either rejected or the seller is told to fix the issues in their original thread. Either choice is entirely up to the reviewing moderator, although I prefer rejecting them to clear the queue and pick up the sales threads where the seller bothers reading the rules before submitting.
However, occasionally unquantifiable claims do get missed during the review process (embarrassingly enough, even in the title sometimes). Marketplace moderators are human, so any of the threads you do find should be reported so that we can change the claims or ask the seller to send us an updated version of their BBcode with these claims removed.
Same deal as before, sometimes marketplace moderators miss things.
You can report them and we'll contact the sellers so that they can add a refund policy. If they don't comply, we just close their thread down.
Refund policies in sales threads need to be refined.
At one point, I had an unofficial rule at the end of my reviews in the marketplace regarding "no refunds" refund policies, however I added that as a new rule earlier this month in the marketplace content standards to outright prohibit sellers from having a "no refunds" refund policy, and so far every seller has been compliant.
Still, I'm aware this only takes care of the worst offenders at most.
If any members are getting an infraction just for sending in reports, they can PM me or another administrator so that we can look over the issue. I'd personally be interested in seeing which members are getting these infractions.
The only members I'm aware of who have received infractions for sending in mass reports are members who have been engaging in the following activities:
Members reporting hundreds of their own posts and asking us to remove them; we don't bulk remove posts by request.
Members spitefully reporting dozens of other threads when they get an infraction.
Sellers falsely reporting dozens of their competition for "spam" in order to get their competitors banned from the forum.
We have quite a few members who genuinely send in a lot of reports, and they never so much as get told off for doing so.
I'm not going to invalidate anyone before I look over the issue, but something to keep in mind is that you can't always trust what others are saying after they get an infraction or ban. I often see a lot of "I was banned for no reason" or "I was given an infraction unfairly" support tickets and PMs from members, and I can say that there have only been a handful of times the ban or infraction was unfair, and even then it was usually due to a genuine mistake on the moderator's part (as we always tell everyone, moderators are human; even I've accidentally banned members or given out infractions to the wrong people).
I know a lot of the post has already been answered very well already by @Zwielicht. I would like to add, however, that reporting marketplace threads that are breaking our rules or marketplace content standards is extremely valuable reporting to us. @Sherb, you did report a thread not too long ago for not having a refund policy - because of this, I was able to contact the seller regarding their thread and (luckily) they responded soon after and I was able to edit their thread to fit our rules relatively quickly. Reports such as yours makes quick actions like that possible. Sometimes sellers don't respond to us about editing their thread - I simply shut their threads down until they get back to me.
It's not our policy to give members infractions for sending in lots of reports. There always has to be another reason for the member receiving a warning, as stated above.
If you're sending in a lot of genuine, helpful reports, they are appreciated and we will work through them as best as we can.
I'd fully support your cause if it was .... should 80% of the sales thread on BHW be banned?
I think yes.
Honestly, its not just the SMM ... the whole market section is full of shite. 80% of it should be there.
Because creating your own smm services and not outsourcing takes a lot of time and knowledge, seeing that paypal can shut you down at any moment for selling such services, because outsourcing the services to some (very nice) indian folk might leave you with no control over what you are sending to the client.. and with all the other problems that a big smm panel can create.. I think that a lot of sellers see this kind of BST as a get rich fast technique and invest little to nothing in finding and training new staff members, creating unique services and overall having a decent batch of profiles to use in the process. And although I understand them, it still is an overall shitty service that I try to avoid nowadays..
The first view of this thread for me was like, hell na it shouldnt, after reading the post i kind of agree with you.
I feel the only Smm panels that should stick should be tested and approved by either staff or some highly trusted members.
No one can post on BHW marketplace without mod approval
This, keep the threads that can offer something different not just the same resold service.
I know that. But some spam outside the MP too (check my recent post). Need to fix both inside and outside MP issues.
@William702 panels are often reported in the SL section, most are dealt with prior to being made live. We still get people asking to SL JAP, even though they do not sell on here.
We cannot fix outside MP issues, if we do not get them reported. Most Shitlists are from people buying from regular members.
Seriously, I cannot get this across to people enough; REPORT ANYONE WHO IS A REGULAR ( YELLOW USERNAME ) TRYING TO SELL. THEY WILL BE BANNED.
What’s up with the smm panels prices too? I understand that they are just poor resellers and don’t have control over price changes at all, but there should be a way to see their current prices without having to browse their website. At the very least they shouldn’t have outdated prices in their original post
Most of them also lie in the descriptions of their services. For example, they claim views are instant or have a certain retention, when in reality they start after a few hours and have like 10-20 seconds retention..
First off, I want to take a moment to appreciate a well written thread and from a user his is only addressing issues they think are problems and could be for others as well. @Sherb I read the thread and will respond the issues that I think are problems as well, if I miss any tops you also discussed feel free to let me know if you're still wanting my answer. Thanks!
1) SMM Services are inundating and filling the Social Media section of the Marketplace with what is essentially the same exact service offerings.
Kinda true, yes. Not only have I talked with competitors who offer unique services provided in-house. But we also deliver some services that are in-house and not the same as any other panel/website. This being said, I am not talking for every panel. Some may be offering the same service, some may not. I sadly cannot prove if every thread on BHW is unique, but I agree that is a problem and should be addressed.
2) SMM panels are notoriously low-quality for customer service and presence in the Shitlist.
Try to think of SMM panels as each own business. There are some businesses who perform well and have a great concern about customer service, delivery, and knowledge. But, there are also some who don't value those assets. This exists everywhere, not just SMM panels directly.
3) SMM panels are consistently skirting around rules, case 1
Mind elaborating a bit? I am confused on what rules are broken!
4) SMM panels are consistently skirting around the rules, case 2
There are many reason why SMM Panels do this but one of my reasons is to prove they "earned" the credit. (Proving that they saw our ad which we paid for that impression, by commenting their username.) A big problem that our business has is that people will try to abuse the free credit system. (Making multiple accounts and getting free credits multiple times. So actually, I want to thank BHW for allowing this as it has saved us thousands of dollars.
As for the rest, I think it was my best understanding that you are concerned about the reselling of services... I covered this topic already, but also try to value other things in someones "service". If you buy $50 shoes from walmart VS buying $50 shoes from Gucci, wouldn't you feel like your shoes are nicer from Gucci? Although it may or may not be the same service for thread owners, they can bring value where worth is given.
The solution is quite simple and fairly easy.
The whole problem is in the word " reseller " .
IF someone is a supplier he can sell because he is responsible for the service he provides. Panels are not and can not guarantee delivery or fix an order. They do not want to refund because they already pay the supplier so it is a double loss for them.
Allow only suppliers and the problem will be fixed.
Without proof that someone is a direct supplier of the service he is selling do not let him sell, easy as that.
I agree, resellers aren't responsible for fulfillment, but are responsible for ensuring paying customers receive what they pay for. Since they resell, fulfilling orders aren't managed by these sellers so when disputes are lodged it's a double-loss dispute, many of which not wanting to assume responsibility for.
It'd be great for MOD's to verify SMM providers as the actual renderer and not a reseller, but unfortunately, I believe this would be an insurmountable task due to time constraints of forum management.
If you are not happy with their policy, find one you like.
Soon someone is going to say let's leave BHW.
Holy shit, you just smoked a whole niche in one detailed post. Good shit. Quality read and you make good points.
Separate names with a comma.