Which programming path to choose? (Which would you suggest?)

Captaintj · Jun 9, 2020

Hey guys.

I have a question for the people here who are earning money via their programming skills.
So I begin with my learning Programming journey a few weeks back here - https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/journey-learning-python-to-write-scripts.1234640/

I started this Journey just out of interest to learn programming, but as I am going forward with my journey I am realizing that the field of programming is vast and i need to start working towards a path. I am learning Python at the moment, it is my first programming language.

My goal is to be able to earn money on the side from my programming skills. Before Corona I was working as a Tennis coach and that is what i do full time. Usually I have free 4 hours a day to learn or do anything. I cannot join any company or something, I can only do it as freelancing more or less, because it will be like a side business.

I tried to pin point what my options are and these things came to my mind.
1) mod edit: removed.
2) Automation / Scraping / Scripting / Botting jobs, there are ton here on BHW. But I am not sure if this field is saturated.
3) Machine Learning - Not sure how to earn money with this, even if I start to learn it, what then.
4) Website developer - Not something I want to do actually, but maybe it is a good field.
5) App developer - same as 4).

So what would you guys suggest? Which field is the best to work in as a freelancer, I find interest in 1) & 2), but let me know what you guys think

claymancz · Jun 9, 2020

I am in same situation and I always wanted to do automation tools to IM, so If I learn programming i could connect those 2 things together, IM and programming. And maybe some CPA Javascript+html landings pages too

yakuzaemme · Jun 9, 2020

Automation / Scraping / Scripting / Botting

If you're a bit creative, you can go very far with this - along with web development (for data presentational purposes).

Captaintj · Jun 9, 2020

claymancz said:
I am in same situation and I always wanted to do automation tools to IM, so If I learn programming i could connect those 2 things together, IM and programming. And maybe some CPA Javascript+html landings pages too

I can imagine bro, I was doing dropshipping for a while, didn't workout well, but I like your idea too.

Captaintj · Jun 9, 2020

yakuzaemme said:
Automation / Scraping / Scripting / Botting

If you're a bit creative, you can go very far with this - along with web development (for data presentational purposes).

Great, thanks for the advice. Just a question here, what do you mean by" along with web development (for data presentational purposes).", can you please elaborate on that.

MoneyMagnet2015 · Jun 9, 2020

You can also optimize websites like this journey:

https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/journey-100-day-speeding-websites.1231569/

bandititf9 · Jun 9, 2020

As a web developer, I would advice you to choose Machine Learning (usually requires high degree for IT companies) or App developing.
If you can make decent Apps for iOS or Android, it can make you money for long term, for example if you make an app that a person checks everyday or needs to watch an AD for extra credits, I see it so much in Apps today and it's making app developers lifetime passive income.

Deleted member 923340 · Jun 9, 2020

I would suggest web development. Learn javascript frameworks and cloud computing.

black-hat-rabbit · Jun 9, 2020

Honestly i think that once you get into languages like python or JS the roads are open, it's really not hard to switch from web scraping to website development etc.
I have been doing web development for over 2 years now and I don't see a point in splitting 2 and 3

I have 0 experience with your nr 1.

As for 3 not sure myself, i think Machine learning is at stage where you either work for company full time or develop your own product. But i have no clue about the market so it's what i assume.

As for 5, i think it's similar to nr 2 and 3, you can also make bots for games etc. So i think scripting is something you can do there as well.

Dunno what others have to say.

yakuzaemme · Jun 9, 2020

Captaintj said:
Great, thanks for the advice. Just a question here, what do you mean by" along with web development (for data presentational purposes).", can you please elaborate on that.

You can build really cool and useful stuff by scraping/automation - but one thing that's almost always needed is a way to present the data/automation, an interface.

So in short; experiment with C#/Python to learn scraping and automation - and do it with stuff you use everyday - even BHW for example.
Play around with authentication - maybe build a bot that will change profile picture for you here at BHW.
Keep building useless stuff because it's all part of the learning curve.

Panther28 · Jun 9, 2020

App and website developer at the same time, build your own or client projects, and the in your spare time, scripting and bots for other people.

Nonilol · Jun 9, 2020

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about which specific programming language to chose as all high level languages use similar logic and patterns, you won't have a problem switching in between once you understand the basics. Just go for whatever is best for your personal projects.

Python is super easy to get into and a good choice for machine learning and automating things.
I would just focus on Python first.

If you wanna code Wordpress themes & plugins, learn PHP. Otherwise NodeJS for webdev backend - or if you don't want another language, just stick with Python (You can also make web apps in it using Django / Flask)

For developing apps I would recommend to look into React Native. It's pretty hard for beginners tho imo, so I wouldn't start with this before you got 1-2yrs programming experience at least. Simply use mobile-ready web apps til then.

Always first experiment with a specific technology stack on your own for a few weeks and find out what everything does, then check out the most popular frameworks (eg. PHP->Laravel, Node->Express, Frontend Web->Angular/Vue,...)

Sebastiann · Jun 9, 2020

1. Ethical Hacker
Not sure what you mean by this one. If you mean securing as in web security - this is a whole different direction, and largely unrelated to programming. Sure there are elements of scripting required for websec but it's generally related to automation of common tasks within linux based servers, firewalls, etc... If you are just getting started, I'd put this one on hold, for now, to avoid overwhelming yourself.

4 & 5. Web & App Development
Focus on learning how to produce well-formed, efficient code by picking up a dominant modern frontend framework like Vue or React, and develop an understanding of why these frameworks have been designed the way they have. A large community of brilliant developers all contribute to these frameworks so if something is done, it's done right - which presents a great opportunity for learning good code form and function. The good news is if you master these, you can solve both #4&5 at the same time, as both frameworks compile down to iOS and Android apps as well as desktop web applications / websites.
I personally prefer Vue, primarily because I love to work with Laravel (PHP) on the backend and it is tightly coupled, but you'll find many people suggest React as it's maintained by Facebook and currently the leading star in the spotlight. I'd suggest having a play with both and seeing which your mind picks up more naturally. You'll need to learn a CSS frontend framework to go along with this. Bootstrap 4 is dominant and you'll be able to find a lot more predeveloped HTML templates made in BS. However, for many reasons (including Bootstrap being quite bloated in comparison) the rising star currently appears to be Tailwind CSS, so try both and see which you prefer.

You'll want to learn a backend as well, and fortunately, you can apply most of what you've learned on the frontend in javascript to Node and build out your servers neatly on high-availability serverless infra like AWS / Google Cloud / etc..

I personally fcking hate javascript as a language but unfortunately, it is by far the most versatile, so it's impossible to not recommend it to someone starting out as it kills so many birds with one stone. Just make sure to focus on modern, ES6+ javascript - forget anything earlier than this as you can use Webpack / Grunt, etc to compile your (much superior) ES6 code down to old school web format.

2. Botting
Most browser automation is generally written in ES6 Javascript... Which luckily if you worked on #4&5 first, you'll hopefully find an easy transition. The reason I would suggest learning #4&5 before taking this on, is because the community and documentation is much much thinner for such a niche use case, so if you start on this before understanding modern javascript, you'll be in for a quite a painful learning curve with very little support.

3. Machine Learning
Python & Matlab, working on Google Cloud. Again, same as #1 this is a whole direction shift away from the other things you've mentioned, and I doubt it's something you can legitimately master without a CS degree. I would put it on pause for now and come back when you understand a ton more fundamentals, then look for some frameworks that do a lot of heavy lifting for you. There's even a ton of off the shelf SaaS products that do pretty much everything you'd want to make yourself but much much better. They present a simple API so using your skills picked up from 2, 4 & 5, you'll be able to easily integrate them into whatever project you're working on.

Finally, you'll find a lot of people recommend Python, but I genuinely think that unless you are really interested in Machine Learning, it's going to be time you could have spent mastering something more versatile. There's very little I've found that needs to be automated in Python that I couldn't have achieved with some other language, so short of some other member pointing out something huge that I haven't thought of, I can't really see the point.

Hope this helps.

Captaintj · Jun 9, 2020

MoneyMagnet2015 said:
You can also optimize websites like this journey:

https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/journey-100-day-speeding-websites.1231569/

I saw the thread, thanks for the idea.

bandititf9 said:
As a web developer, I would advice you to choose Machine Learning (usually requires high degree for IT companies) or App developing.
If you can make decent Apps for iOS or Android, it can make you money for long term, for example if you make an app that a person checks everyday or needs to watch an AD for extra credits, I see it so much in Apps today and it's making app developers lifetime passive income.

Thats true! Which language would you suggest to learn for app development?

Deleted member 923340 said:
I would suggest web development. Learn javascript frameworks and cloud computing.

Any specific reason why javascript frameworks and cloud computing?

yakuzaemme said:
You can build really cool and useful stuff by scraping/automation - but one thing that's almost always needed is a way to present the data/automation, an interface.

So in short; experiment with C#/Python to learn scraping and automation - and do it with stuff you use everyday - even BHW for example.
Play around with authentication - maybe build a bot that will change profile picture for you here at BHW.
Keep building useless stuff because it's all part of the learning curve.

Thanks for the tips man,saw your website just now, hoping to do big things like you someday.

Panther28 said:
App and website developer at the same time, build your own or client projects, and the in your spare time, scripting and bots for other people.
Learn ethical hacking if you want though too. Maybe a bit harder to earn, than having ads in apps or games, or some SEO software that you built.

Can you elaborate on how to do all these things together? I only have 4 hours a day at my hand.

Nonilol said:
Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about which specific programming language to chose as all high level languages use similar logic and patterns, you won't have a problem switching in between once you understand the basics. Just go for whatever is best for your personal projects.

Python is super easy to get into and a good choice for machine learning and automating things.
I would just focus on Python first.

If you wanna do Wordpress themes & plugins, learn PHP. Otherwise NodeJS for webdev - or if you don't want another language, just stick with Python (You can also make web apps in it using Django / Flask)

For developing apps I would recommend to look into React Native. It's pretty hard for beginners tho imo, so I wouldn't start with this before you got 1-2yrs programming experience at least.

Always first experiment with a specific technology stack on your own for a few weeks and find out what everything does, then check out the most popular frameworks.

Great, thanks for the help

Deleted member 1333509 · Jun 9, 2020

If you're mostly focused on having reliable work all the time and quickly getting to the point where you can earn an income, go with web dev.

If you're into higher level ideas (blockchain, performance-based trading bots, AI to a degree) and don't mind a challenge go with C++ (super valuable language to know).

If you'd like to focus on automation or if you really want to enjoy your first language learning experience go with Python (the most versatile, powerful, and (I think) important language to know in 2020)... you can't go wrong learning Python based on what you said.

Sebastiann · Jun 9, 2020

VSYNC said:
go with C++ (super valuable language to know)

I definitely agree with this one, C++ is legitimately a "real" language and you can actually touch the metal if you need to.

That being said, for what you described and the stage you mentioned you're at - it's probably going to hurt taking this one on straight up.

Deleted member 1333509 · Jun 9, 2020

Sebastiann said:
it's probably going to hurt taking this one on straight up.

Yep, that's an understatement.

black-hat-rabbit · Jun 9, 2020

Also, don't forget to checkout blockchain technology, more and more products are coming out. With simple javascript you can integrate blockchain into a website (making transactions etc). I'm pretty sure blockchain is about to grow and there will be a demand for programmers that will be simply able to integrate it into websites.

Captaintj · Jun 9, 2020

Sebastiann said:
1. Ethical Hacker
Not sure what you mean by this one. If you mean securing as in web security - this is a whole different direction, and largely unrelated to programming. Sure there are elements of scripting required for websec but it's generally related to automation of common tasks within linux based servers, firewalls, etc... If you are just getting started, I'd put this one on hold, for now, to avoid overwhelming yourself.

4 & 5. Web & App Development
Focus on learning how to produce well-formed, efficient code by picking up a dominant modern frontend framework like Vue or React, and develop an understanding of why these frameworks have been designed the way they have. A large community of brilliant developers all contribute to these frameworks so if something is done, it's done right - which presents a great opportunity for learning good code form and function. The good news is if you master these, you can solve both #4&5 at the same time, as both frameworks compile down to iOS and Android apps as well as desktop web applications / websites.
I personally prefer Vue, primarily because I love to work with Laravel (PHP) on the backend and it is tightly coupled, but you'll find many people suggest React as it's maintained by Facebook and currently the leading star in the spotlight. I'd suggest having a play with both and seeing which your mind picks up more naturally. You'll need to learn a CSS frontend framework to go along with this. Bootstrap 4 is dominant and you'll be able to find a lot more predeveloped HTML templates made in BS. However, for many reasons (including Bootstrap being quite bloated in comparison) the rising star currently appears to be Tailwind CSS, so try both and see which you prefer.

You'll want to learn a backend as well, and fortunately, you can apply most of what you've learned on the frontend in javascript to Node and build out your servers neatly on high-availability serverless infra like AWS / Google Cloud / etc..

I personally fcking hate javascript as a language but unfortunately, it is by far the most versatile, so it's impossible to not recommend it to someone starting out as it kills so many birds with one stone. Just make sure to focus on modern, ES6+ javascript - forget anything earlier than this as you can use Webpack / Grunt, etc to compile your (much superior) ES6 code down to old school web format.

2. Botting
Most browser automation is generally written in ES6 Javascript... Which luckily if you worked on #4&5 first, you'll hopefully find an easy transition. The reason I would suggest learning #4&5 before taking this on, is because the community and documentation is much much thinner for such a niche use case, so if you start on this before understanding modern javascript, you'll be in for a quite a painful learning curve with very little support.

3. Machine Learning
Python on Matlab, working on Google Cloud. Again, same as #1 this is a whole direction shift away from the other things you've mentioned, and I doubt it's something you can legitimately master without a CS degree. I would put it on pause for now and come back when you understand a ton more fundamentals, then look for some frameworks that do a lot of heavy lifting for you. There's even a ton of off the shelf SaaS products that do pretty much everything you'd want to make yourself but much much better. They present a simple API so using your skills picked up from 2, 4 & 5, you'll be able to easily integrate them into whatever project you're working on.

Finally, you'll find a lot of people recommend Python, but I genuinely think that unless you are really interested in Machine Learning, it's going to be time you could have spent mastering something more versatile. There's very little I've found that needs to be automated in Python that I couldn't have achieved with some other language, so short of some other member pointing out something huge that I haven't thought of, I can't really see the point.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for taking the time out to write such a detailed answer to my question.

At the moment I am learning Python and started out with Automate boring stuff with Python. After I am doing with that then I guess I would look to move into Web development and app development.

VSYNC said:
If you're mostly focused on having reliable work all the time and quickly getting to the point where you can earn an income, go with web dev.

If you're into higher level ideas (blockchain, trading bots, AI to a degree) and don't mind a challenge go with C++ (super valuable language to know).

If you'd like to focus on automation or if you really want to enjoy your first language learning experience go with Python (the most versatile, powerful, and (I think) important language to know in 2020).

Yes I would more or less have a full time job once corona is away, so I guess web development it is!

Captaintj · Jun 9, 2020

black-hat-rabbit said:
Also, don't forget to checkout blockchain technology, more and more products are coming out. With simple javascript you can integrate blockchain into a website (making transactions etc). I'm pretty sure blockchain is about to grow and there will be a demand for programmers that will be simply able to integrate it into websites.

Will do!

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