The big "BHW Conspiracy" thread

Discussion in 'Forum Suggestions & Feedback' started by Apricot, Jan 8, 2018.

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  1. Apricot

    Apricot Administrator Staff Member

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    As promised in this thread:

    https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/i...for-crypto-people.999249/page-5#post-10707049

    Here's some answers to the questions that are apparently making some of you unhappy.

    To be honest, I was disappointed to read this - especially from a senior member and Jr Exec. Some of you appear to think there's a big secret conspiracy going on - that there's a bhw illuminati or we're part of a machine. Much as I'd love that to be true (not least because it sounds far more exciting than the truth) we're an internet forum - nothing more, nothing less. It's not rocket science - I really shouldn't have to spoon feed members information on how an internet forum works but.. it's obviously a sticking point for some.


    [​IMG]


    We provide the forum for you guys to talk about SEO and sell services - we charge membership fees for people to sell on here but the forum is free to use and join in with the community. We manage it as well as we're able, by formulating rules that benefit the majority of users on the forum without restricting you too much. We work on features or change rules as we feel they fit with the evolving nature of what the community wants.

    That's a lot of questions - I'll try to provide as much info as I can.

    Without meaning to sound rude, this doesn't really make sense. Regardless of how long the approval process is, there's always a possibility that you could buy a service and a better one could be released shortly afterwards. Much like buying a TV or a processor - you make the best decision based on what's available at the time. There might be rumours of newer, better models but it's impossible to judge until they're actually released. This is fairly standard across the board?
    So.. I'm not sure how waiting for potentially better services to possibly become available at some point in the future is related to marketplace approval delays but I'm happy to answer the implied question there.

    Yes, there's a delay in getting marketplace threads reviewed. We've had an unprecedented amount of threads submitted over the last few months. In addition, the person running the "I Know SEO" account is no longer with us. We've got two other mods: @Society Girl and @BassTrackerBoats who are helping out with the reviews in the meantime and we're currently recruiting for a replacement at the moment. We're advertising locally as it needs to be an inhouse position but I'll get the job description posted on the forum in case anyone here is interested in the position.
    I can't give you a specific time period for the delay as this depends on the service and what's needed to carry out the reviews, as it depends on the service and what's needed to review it but the waiting times differ greatly. Once the backlog's under control, we'll make sure we notify you of this.

    I'm not really sure what your question is here? As you've said, we've been implementing marketplace changes to make sure that sellers are actively engaged on their threads and are regularly investing in keeping them open and active. I don't know what you mean by "marketplace upgrades" - sounds like you might be getting confused with "membership upgrades" which refer to thread and membership renewals? Otherwise, if you're looking for a detailed list of what we're planning to implement, that's not going to happen. As @Diamond Damien says:

    Not only that, we can't always put in place everything that's been planned. Some of it isn't possible to implement and some of it gets delayed by other circumstances. We don't have a huge amount of resources and spending time publishing, debating and justifying every step in the process isn't efficient or feasible.

    Again, can't really see a question here. The bots were tested and, during the review, they worked as described for the mod approving them. "we really do want to know what the product did for the people who ultimately approve it" - I don't understand what you mean by that. Ultimately, the threads are approved by mods who provide their subjective opinion on the service. Therefore, not everyone is going to like every review. Just like the forum - and real life - we're not going to be able to make every member happy every time.

    Really? It was thoroughly discussed in the thread you linked to and both @stuna and @Cesarios answered lots of questions about it in their threads. We don't allow someone to sell the exact same product as someone else - as I said, there needs to be added value. @Cesarios bought the resale rights and marketed the bots with a different customer service process. Both sellers got grilled over the relationship and both had to fight it out in discussions on the forum. There was a lot of debate on it so I didn't see a need to spoonfeed uninvolved members with a summary of the conclusion.

    Again, I couldn't really see a question there - just a statement of dissatisfaction - but I've addressed what I *think* you're trying to get at.

    Deleting resolved shitlist threads has always been the norm. If we find in favour of the seller or they resolve the issue satisfactorily, then the thread gets removed. It stays up if the situation doesn't get resolved, so that people are aware a seller did not fulfil their obligations. If you've got a suggestion on improving the shitlist process, we'd love to hear it - please put it forward as a separate topic so we can discuss the merits of it.

    In regards to the weblues threads - I wasn't involved directly and there were a few of them so I'm not sure which one you're referring to. From a quick look, there was one resolved on September 9th, where the seller reactivated the licences and @I know SEO removed the thread immediately afterwards. There was another picked up by @I know SEO in August - it looks like the OP didn't reply, so the thread was deleted. Happy to look back for others but, in lieu of further information, it will have been closed because the seller resolved the problem. Like usual.

    That'll do for now. I'm happy to answer any further questions, as long as they're not just trying to stir up trouble but I'm not going to sit on this thread to reply instantly or answer quibbles on tiny points. I've already spent too much time on this and it takes too much time from moderating the forum. If the thread devolves too much, then it'll be closed.
     
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  2. sturose

    sturose Elite Member

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    Going back to my post in the previous thread, it would be nice to see some information about what is being considered based on member suggestions.
    i.e. If a new section is considered or a new forum feature etc. Also if something has been suggested that isn't feasible maybe a quick post letting us know that it won't be implemented and why.

    All this could be in one sticky post at the top that only mods and admins can post in for information only. It could then be referred to should anyone post a similar suggestion that is either under consideration or rejected.

    Sticky threads such as THIS and THIS could then be merged into the one single sticky about member suggestions that have been considered or denied for whatever reason.

    Just a minor suggestion that may help keep this section of the forum a bit cleaner.
     
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  3. IamNRE

    IamNRE Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Upgrade more senior Jr. Members to be able to review services. No reason why you couldn't deputize 10-20-50-100 senior members and have them review threads and give detailed review.... freeing up some of you full time staffers to do other things.
     
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  4. Nut-Nights

    Nut-Nights Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Looks like i missed a lot.
     
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  5. proxygo

    proxygo Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    i think for an admin with a 9/5 and working bhw in spare time in between
    i dont see anyone can complain, you covered all the points as best one could.
    and 1 user can not be all places at once. moaners will moan, haters will hate,
    bhw will roll on.
     
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  6. stuna

    stuna BANNED BANNED Jr. VIP

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    Some people do not know how a forum is run and how hard it is when mods/admins are dealing with countless members issues on a daily bases..BHW is a BIG forum.. To the complainers & whiners, I say.. WAIT YOUR TURN!.. No one is above the rest of us!!
     
  7. Sephrata

    Sephrata Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I would agree with @sturose and also put forward the idea of a stakeholders meeting between the forum management and some proactive, senior forum members.
     
  8. thescrrr

    thescrrr Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I miss @I know SEO review's he also gave his opinion along with the approval. like "I wouldnt use this as a tier 1" etc, now it's just "thread approved, great report"
     
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  9. Apricot

    Apricot Administrator Staff Member

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    That is, quite simply, not the case. Please don't make absolute judgements based on what you "reckon" is true. Gross overgeneralisation based on a small sample - selected to support your argument - isn't constructive or helpful.
     
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  10. Apricot

    Apricot Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, that's a good point. We want to improve the feedback process so that we don't have lots of threads suggesting the same thing and people can see what the most important suggestions are. Ideally, it'd be good to provide feedback to say what suggestions are going to be implemented but, as I mentioned above, that's not always feasible. Even though we might plan for a list of features to be implemented, some of these may not prove to be possible. In addition, priorities can change fast on the forum and I'm concerned about the time it'd chew up for an inhouse mod to constantly update a list and have to answer questions or complaints about someone's favourite feature being dropped below what they think is a less important one. It's worth thinking about though - there might be a viable compromise in there.

    That's a lot of senior members to vet and find out whether they offer a competing service or have any conflicts of interest. I'd be concerned that monitoring a large amount of members to make sure that they're carrying out reviews fairly, thoroughly and accurately would be a huge demand on resources itself. I'm not sure how many sellers here would be happy with potentially having one of their competitors review their service and getting access to their PBN's or outreach methods etc.

    That could be a bit difficult to set up - how would you choose who would take part in it? What would you suggest they discuss? One of the nice things about the forum is that it allows us to discuss these issues in an open... well.. forum. And I'd like to make sure that any member has the chance to offer suggestions, not just a chosen few who're used to the forum and it's foibles. We want to continue improving things for members at all levels on here.
     
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  11. proxygo

    proxygo Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    nice idea but not practical . DD APRICOT, will always listen to ideas and suggestions
    asked on the forum, but im gonna doubt a guy who payed tens of thousands for bhw
    has time to chit chat a board meeting with some random blue members who payed 97$
    also for everyone 2 people who want something, theres 3 who wont want it and that will
    just waste more time people dont have.

    better to have DD and co say yes or no to forum ideas, than any few respected members
    representing us at a board meeting, and whos to say those so called respected
    represent the opinion of the forum , or just them self . tough one.

    the way it is in forum/feed back is still the best way,
    ask - wait - abide the decision.
     
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  12. b1step-ahead

    b1step-ahead Supreme Member

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    Still the best seo and "more" forum site out there. Keep moving forward!
     
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  13. thetrustedzone

    thetrustedzone Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Guys and girls on BHW , mods at the end are humans and originally thing for humans to make wrong decisions sometimes specially when they are under pressure like managing big environment with a lot of daily activities... if each one try to catch a mod mistake here and there to show himself/herself wisdom and smart one ... ok you are . Hope now to grow up and put yourself in other people position before making your judgment .
     
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  14. elavmunretea

    elavmunretea BANNED BANNED

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    At the end of the day, the forum is a business and most of the attention is understandably focused on the approval process & events like Ungagged. I guess it's just a little bit disheartening to see the forum continue to decline the way it has over these last few months.

    I know you've been put in a bit of a tough situation having to hire another moderator but, even when IKS was with the forum, you could probably have benefited from another moderator or even another two. BTB's promotion seemed to be, in my cynical eyes at least, due to the controversy surrounding t0mmy's resignation and not because of the massive benefit and help he has contributed over the years, and I can already see Z getting worn out from all of the work he does.

    One of the things that I really feel could have been done to help buffer the migration of helpful members is moderators and admins having more of a presence on the forum. I know you guys are busy all day, but taking an hour every week or something insignificant to actually contribute content that members can see would be a booster for a lot of members, I'm sure. Personally, I can't remember a post from an admin that wasn't just banter or just replying to small queries, instead of quality contributions that would help show members that the moderators are actually interested in IM and not just a paycheck. That goes for execs etc, too. There seem to be hundreds of members that were pally pally with dave, contributing a now-deleted post in 2009, that pop in every five years to leave a three-word comment and then bounce. What I'm saying is... having higher up members who are actually active on the forum would maybe give people the impression that those who are, presumed to be, successful still find & are happy to offer value here.

    I'm not saying you don't do any work, as I know behind the scenes you do A LOT, but not ever member knows that.

    That, along with rewarding current members with things such as Jr Vip promotions and other rewards would have a big effect, I think.

    I would presume he is talking about the marketplace overhaul that was talked about last year? I remember Damien saying something about changing the marketplace to an internal system, kind of like SEOClerks or eBay.

    I do not like the idea of having all sales run through BHW, as it could damage some business deals, but for services like SEO where there are literally thousands of thread bumps & reviews, I would consider suspicious, having the ability to ensure customer are actually customers and, more importantly, being able to filter by reviews and not just order questions/ bumps would be interesting.

    Once again, I know this is a massive change, taking time and resources, but I never saw it mentioned after that. I am not of the same opinion as @Sherb, that we deserve or even should be told this, but I still think it would be nice, that's all.
     
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  15. ScribScribScrib

    ScribScribScrib Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    We need a dedicated spoonfeeder on this forum that will be given moderator priviledges, his only job would be to spoonfeed members and link to older threads containing the answer.

    That will help newer members integrate into this forum, as the first steps are always the hardest and not everyone can use the search function.

    He would literally be a newbie guider, the all-knowing one and this one position would help you leverage other mods into different ventures, such as thread approving, bst monitoring and spam deletion.

    90% of threads opened here are questions and most of them are only partially answered if at all.

    I'm not kidding, just one person guiding newbies, linking guides from prominent members would make all the difference
     
  16. TheAlmightyDada

    TheAlmightyDada Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I know that the conversation has moved past it, but just to touch on the cryptocurrency side of this debate.

    While the existence of it does not irk me as much it does some of the other members here, I do find it an annoyance that my “Homepage” is cluttered with it.

    The far bigger concern for me regarding that section of the forum would be the potential vulnerability and exposure put on BHW. What I mean by that is if it is the fastest growing section of the forum, by definition a lot of newbie’s are joining there – They may be unaware of the amount of work by staff members & Moderators to keep other parts of the forum clean and free from scammers and they may not care.

    So if they saw a post like this, for example:


    “I’ve been very lucky with Crypto’s and in the last three months have made over $100,000. I’ve been doing some research into BigBoobsCoin and I think it’s the next big thing.”

    Now, if 100 newbies saw that – 80 did nothing, 15 went and bought the coin and 5 contacted the member through PM. That guy could take them down any number of paths (Their own pump and dump coin, affiliate links, Ponzi Scheme) to pry them from their hard earned cash.

    Could this happen with other services elsewhere on BHW? I suppose it could – but people are far more likely to go the Marketplace or HAF to find things but investment advice on Crypto’s doesn’t exist there (nor should it).

    I can tell I’m babbling now, but back to my main concern – I don’t want to one day stumble across something that reads “I lost $$$$$$ on B*W, avoid at all costs” because of someone stealing someone else’s money, through that section of the forum because it will lead to not only a stain on the forum – but also all of the sellers accociated with the forum.

    I don’t even know what the solution would be – this is just something that has been on my mind.
     
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  17. elavmunretea

    elavmunretea BANNED BANNED

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    This has been mentioned many, many times. The answer has always, and will always, be that it is not needed and/or feasible.
     
  18. TheAlmightyDada

    TheAlmightyDada Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I don't expect anyone to do anything about my Annoyance - It just means I have to work harder to see what I want to. The main point of my post comes after that.
     
  19. ScribScribScrib

    ScribScribScrib Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Why not? Even reddit lets you create your own homepage, have a few stickied subforums such as the marketplace section and let us edit the other stuff out

    + IT WOuld be another reason to go from lurker to registered member
     
  20. Sherb

    Sherb Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    I think a lot of this could have been alleviated if I had changed my wording, so for that I apologize.

    While we aren't shareholders in BHW, we are stakeholders, and many of us feel like we are being left completely in the dark.

    Would have been a lot better stated as:

    While we aren't shareholders in BHW, we are stakeholders, and many of us would like better insight regarding upcoming changes and new features coming to BHW.

    I can't think of any "BHW conspiracies" at all. You requested examples, so I gave a few off the top of my head so I didn't respond with "well I don't want to write them down". Again, I should have simply left it at the last bit:

    But my message was less about "left in the dark" and far more about "what is being worked on at BHW, because we would like some better insight". And again, I'm not in any way insinuating that you guys are falling down on the job, because you aren't. You are all doing a wonderful job. Simply put: What is actively being done by administration to better BHW?

    I completely understand where you are coming from with this thread. Reading back through my response, everything you mention above could easily be inferred. Again, I'm sorry. It was never in any way meant to be a conspiracy-type response. I have always had nothing but respect for the administration and moderation team. Hopefully the fact that I state this over and over again when people complain about things proves this.

    I'm aware of the workload you guys are all under. BHW is still growing. As always, thank you to all the administration and moderation for all you do. I don't know how you do it. And thank you @Apricot for clarifying things so well.

    -Sherb
     
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