Megaupload has been shut down.

[heiska]

I said that it could be as low as 2700 which I was wrong slightly it would be 2880 at minimum,at the most it would be around 8640. Which could bring the the costs to $20 million/year in wages if you outsource it to a country like Moldova.

8640 is if it took 1:1,but come on its not going to be nearly 1:1 for the vast majority of content that are uploaded to youtube. from 5:48pm to 5:49 I did one search which led me to more videos,and found 13 1/2 minutes of content that infringed copyrights. So it could be even lower then 2880 possibly.

The idea is still completely unrealistic and stupid. A Moldovan sweatshop worker would have no idea if a video submitted to Youtube is submitted by the original creator/copyright holder or not. It is not a copyright infringement until proven otherwise.

 

[Zelthcon]

I said that it could be as low as 2700 which I was wrong slightly it would be 2880 at minimum,at the most it would be around 8640. Which could bring the the costs to $20 million/year in wages if you outsource it to a country like Moldova.

8640 is if it took 1:1,but come on its not going to be nearly 1:1 for the vast majority of content that are uploaded to youtube. from 5:48pm to 5:49 I did one search which led me to more videos,and found 13 1/2 minutes of content that infringed copyrights. So it could be even lower then 2880 possibly.

I do believe you're completely missing the point here, firstly it would require work to train all of the workers, if they outsource the work then you're more likely to get bad workers / lazy workers (that is a matter of fact). Why do you think so many people complain when companies outsource their call centers and such?

It's not simply a process like :
- Watch video for 30 seconds.
- Delete if it contains content.

It is more like this :
- Have a list, for each worker, constantly updating as new videos are added.
- Go through each video at a time, they WOULD have to look through the ENTIRE video if they find no copyright within it...example, 1 hour video, the copyrighted material could be as far as 59 minutes into it, same for 10 minute videos.
- So it's a BARE MINIMUM of 30 seconds per video BUT MOST would be at least 3minutes + worth of watching per worker, sometimes it could be an entire hour.
- Then after they find any copyrighted material they have to make sure they actually need to take it down or if it falls into the "fair use" category.

Then there of course would be EVEN MORE to the process...

You're telling me you could outsource that work and train all of them to do it...?

No it's not possible, even with enough people to not only manage them but also train them, you would still need a far greater amount then what you think. You would need at the very least 10,000 workers if not 20,000, then you would also need to manage, train, educate them. I said it once and I will say it again, it is not a possibility.

It is not as simple as find 10,000 possibly 20,000 workers, there is training, managing, maintenance, weekly update briefs on copyright laws, including fair use policies.

MOST IMPORTANTLY THE ISSUE WITH THIS IS AS FOLLOWS :

Oh and to top everything off you would then have to make sure the workers are not abusing their powers and censoring videos that they dislike (i.e ones against religion or certain politics) you're giving these workers the power to censor so much information it's insane, then each time you find one breaking the rules, you have to follow process, give them a second chance, then if they get fired you have to replace them and train even more workers.

 

[Roparadise]

The idea is still completely unrealistic and stupid. A Moldovan sweatshop worker would have no idea if a video submitted to Youtube is submitted by the original creator/copyright holder or not. It is not a copyright infringement until proven otherwise.

$200/month is 6 times the minimum wage there, so it wouldn't be a sweatshop. And do you really think a company is going to give up to 8640 people a job and say here take down copyrighted materials and here is a salary for doing so,without spending time training them?

 

[Roparadise]

I do believe you're completely missing the point here, firstly it would require work to train all of the workers, if they outsource the work then you're more likely to get bad workers / lazy workers (that is a matter of fact). Why do you think so many people complain when companies outsource their call centers and such?

It's not simply a process like :
- Watch video for 30 seconds.
- Delete if it contains content.

It is more like this :
- Have a list, for each worker, constantly updating as new videos are added.
- Go through each video at a time, they WOULD have to look through the ENTIRE video if they find no copyright within it...example, 1 hour video, the copyrighted material could be as far as 59 minutes into it, same for 10 minute videos.
- So it's a BARE MINIMUM of 30 seconds per video BUT MOST would be at least 3minutes + worth of watching per worker, sometimes it could be an entire hour.
- Then after they find any copyrighted material they have to make sure they actually need to take it down or if it falls into the "fair use" category.

Then there of course would be EVEN MORE to the process...

You're telling me you could outsource that work and train all of them to do it...?

No it's not possible, even with enough people to not only manage them but also train them, you would still need a far greater amount then what you think. You would need at the very least 10,000 workers if not 20,000, then you would also need to manage, train, educate them. I said it once and I will say it again, it is not a possibility.

It is not as simple as find 10,000 possibly 20,000 workers, there is training, managing, maintenance, weekly update briefs on copyright laws, including fair use policies.

MOST IMPORTANTLY THE ISSUE WITH THIS IS AS FOLLOWS :

Oh and to top everything off you would then have to make sure the workers are not abusing their powers and censoring videos that they dislike (i.e ones against religion or certain politics) you're giving these workers the power to censor so much information it's insane, then each time you find one breaking the rules, you have to follow process, give them a second chance, then if they get fired you have to replace them and train even more workers.

I'm not missing the point,I know that it would cost to much money to do this. And its not censorship Youtube is a privately owned company. If they wanted to they could close to everyone but verified copyright owners,and become a paid site.

 

[Zelthcon]

$200/month is 6 times the minimum wage there, so it wouldn't be a sweatshop. And do you really think a company is going to give up to 8640 people a job and say here take down copyrighted materials and here is a salary for doing so,without spending time training them?

Reply to my above post if you would be as so kind to do so, Sir.

 

[Zelthcon]

I'm not missing the point,I know that it would cost to much money to do this. And its not censorship Youtube is a privately owned company. If they wanted to they could close to everyone but verified copyright owners,and become a paid site.

Interesting, you do not dispute any of my points at all, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and my post completely shut you down, not surprised you did not address any of the points I made .

+1 to me.

edit- by censorship I mean the workers have the power to delete LEGITIMATE videos simply because they do not like the content. Maybe it offends them, maybe they simply find it annoying or pointless. They would be moderating THE WHOLE OF YOUTUBE...that is impossible and way too much room for abuse, even more so if they outsource the work.

 

[heiska]

$200/month is 6 times the minimum wage there, so it wouldn't be a sweatshop. And do you really think a company is going to give up to 8640 people a job and say here take down copyrighted materials and here is a salary for doing so,without spending time training them?

But how does the Moldovan guy know if a video is submitted by the original copyright holder or some troll who says he owns the copyright? One just can not know. That's why the idea is fundamentally flawed.

 

[Roparadise]

Reply to my above post if you would be as so kind to do so, Sir.

I already did, I was low balling the figures to show how much it would cost at the minimum to moderate you tube if SOPA passed, it would obviously cost alot more. So if moderation wasn't the answer,then Youtube would have to limit new uploads to verified content owners,which would cost alot less. But it would still cut into their profits vastly.

My entire point is that SOPA was about the following

Entertainment Industry wants money from missing royalties
Internet companies want to keep more money by not having to pay royalties.

Youtube doesn't care if its free and open,its just the best business model at the time.

 

[heiska]

I already did, I was low balling the figures to show how much it would cost at the minimum to moderate you tube if SOPA passed, it would obviously cost alot more. So if moderation wasn't the answer,then Youtube would have to limit new uploads to verified content owners,which would cost alot less. But it would still cut into their profits vastly.

That is exactly the kind of censorship wikipedia and everyone is fighting against...

 

[Zelthcon]

Ah I see so your solution, to stop piracy is to censor the internet, which is exactly what SOPA is about...lol.

 

[bertbaby]

This is the only thing I am against with SOPA.
They should not mess with the architecture of the internet.
I wrote this on another thread.
But trust me, they will remove that item and resubmit the bill.
I just believe SOPA will pass onto law... maybe not as SOPA but as some other revised bill with another name....strapped on to a do good bill.
Something that cannot be brought down.

Of course it will eventually pass into law as long as there are whores, excuse me congressmen, to buy. Amazingly, the entire issue of Fair use was never addressed as well by this act of stupidity. Trust me, Congress can fuck up a wet dream and you'll never get the protection you so desperately desire while in turn we get another government bureaucracy itching to censor the Internet!

SOPA plus the Patriot Act means we're fucked. I better get my free content out there before the fuckers start censoring everything!

 

[heiska]

On related news:

Google announced on Friday that it has purchased the music licensing company RightsFlow for its detailed information about who should get paid when any of over 30 million songs get played.

Neither Google nor Rightsflow would comment on the deal beyond their official statements, but we have pieced together some of the reasons Google would purchase a music licensing company like RightsFlow, which deals with "mechanical" royalties owed to songwriters, publishers, and other copyright holders. They whenever a non-human thing - like a compact disc, website, or music app -plays music.

RightsFlow, pictured here, now belongs to Google, which will use it to simplify royalty accounting on YouTube and possibly other music services.

The big reason Google would do this is that YouTube continues to be such a massive free music destination. It simply made more sense to buy RightsFlow outright to help keep its administrative and legal costs down, than to continue to rely on its services alongside other RightsFlow clients such as Rhapsody.

To be clear, this doesn't give Google any rights to this music; it just makes those rights easier to deal with.

The acquisition, announced on Friday (when companies typically announce stuff they don't want people paying attention to) is more evidence that Google is serious about YouTube as a free music destination. It should now be able to add even more music without worrying as much about lawsuits or expensive accounting.

Once Google has identified songs uploaded to YouTube using its Content ID fingerprinting technology, it should be able to figure out more easily which publishers and songwriters to pay. This could also help Google deal with its Google music store or other Google stuff in the future, although for now, Google's focus for this deal is squarely on YouTube.

RightsFlow, recently named the #8 most desirable place to work in New York by Crain's New York Business, owns information that is mostly publicly available. What makes it valuable is its ability to search all that data, making it easier to license lots of songs at once.

So, basically, Google just acquired a search engine, sort of like Google itself - except now, it could just have just one (admittedly very busy) user.

 

[Roparadise]

Ah I see so your solution, to stop piracy is to censor the internet, which is exactly what SOPA is about...lol.

I never said I am in favor of SOPA I oppose it.but I do understand that it is more about money then it is about free speech.

 

[Zelthcon]

I never said I am in favor of SOPA I oppose it.but I do understand that it is more about money then it is about free speech.

Of course it is more about money then free speech HOWEVER the fact that it is about money has a DIRECT IMPACT on free speech over the ENTIRE internet, it is simply undeniable.

I can understand why they would want to create a law which protects copyrighted material but SOPA / PIPA is not the way to go about it. Neither is the monitoring of what we are browsing 24/7 including history, payments, name, address etc, that is going beyond a joke.

If they want to stop piracy then they need to write up better laws / bills which do not ruin what the internet is.

 

[Roparadise]

Of course it is more about money then free speech HOWEVER the fact that it is about money has a DIRECT IMPACT on free speech over the ENTIRE internet, it is simply undeniable.

I can understand why they would want to create a law which protects copyrighted material but SOPA / PIPA is not the way to go about it. Neither is the monitoring of what we are browsing 24/7 including history, payments, name, address etc, that is going beyond a joke.

If they want to stop piracy then they need to write up better laws / bills which do not ruin what the internet is.

SOPA should have been totally stripped down to just making it so the DOJ can go to court to get an injunction against a payment processor and or ad network from working with a website that is actually pirating items,not just allowing for filesharing.

 

[Zelthcon]

SOPA should have been totally stripped down to just making it so the DOJ can go to court to get an injunction against a payment processor and or ad network from working with a website that is actually pirating items,not just allowing for filesharing.

Exactly, that there is a good idea, rather then cutting off the site, cut off the funding for the website. Although this will damage a lot of small businesses starting up and can lead to abuse, if such a bill was to pass then it would have to follow the process of DMCA / C&D letters initially.

This could be a start but would need due process, that they would HAVE to follow otherwise it would damage legitimate businesses that are starting up.

The reason why I would say no to even that is because the US Government would accept bribes from the music industry and abuse the bill.

 

[BreakAllTheClocks]

What about Apple's icloud, dropbox, amazon s3? They all share files too..

They should have cashed out to a big corp like Steve Chen did with Youtube. You would never see Larry Ellison or Bill Gates dragged out of their homes like this.

 

[kelvin.thechamp]

Keep it professional. If you have something constructive to say.... then say it. There is no room for insults in this discussion.



I work in the entertainment industry. SOPA helps me get money from my hard work. You expect me to be against it??




Go read what i posted... I said I pay for them.




If people that use my content would pay for it, it would make me very happy. But they don't. And if the threat of jail is what is going to stop them.... then let's throw jail in the equation.




Keep this on a professional basis.
I can cuz like a drunken sailor in more than one language but we are civilized people and do not need to get to that point.

So let's keep this strictly professional, go ahead and attack my post but do not come at me personally.






Countries are like neighbors.....
go ahead and steal something from your neighbor...
put it in front of your yard...
and when he comes and bitches you out..
Convince him that this is your property...
He has no right to it, and he should mind his own business...
Good luck with that shit.... and you will be lucky if he does not punch the crap out of you and take his property back.



but if you still insist.... then first

Stop viewing US content
Stop copying US content
Stop sharing US content
Stop stealing US content
Stop using anything US.....


Watch and use shitty azz 3rd world content.
Use other nations software crap.
Watch crappy movies made in other countries.

Leave the USA alone... and the USA will leave you alone.


Steal from the USA.... and USA will come break down your door with guns.

Virus i dont know why u protecting ot defending sopa/pipa dude , internet is liberty , freedom to post , make stuff in ur own way there should be no authority above it , i m also a coder i dont want some one to fuck my software and pirate it , but it doesn't mean some moron's make restrictions to control world wide web for every one. if this bill will implement there will be a huge loss for all big guns , its foolish attempt to control and own internet world by usa a stunt that may be ended up in some kind of cyberwar search google and see nobody is supporting it... and evan this implement peoples will make there ways , English is not my first language so sorry for mistakes is there any

 

[madsem]

The most logical way to use this is to delete videos that for sure have copyright material in them.... when in doubt.... leave the video.

God, this world is so sad, another guy who would rather see that baby video deleted where lady gaga plays in the background, because it's copyrighted and the mother of the baby didn't license it, right?

She just bought the cd which happens to play in the background when she films her baby and puts it on youtube for people to see...

<sarcasm>
that is a CRIME and she should be punished!
</sarcasm>

No wonder you "content providers" get copied and "robbed" you all are tight asses with nothing better to do.

 

[madsem]

I said that it could be as low as 2700 which I was wrong slightly it would be 2880 at minimum,at the most it would be around 8640. Which could bring the the costs to $20 million/year in wages if you outsource it to a country like Moldova.

8640 is if it took 1:1,but come on its not going to be nearly 1:1 for the vast majority of content that are uploaded to youtube. from 5:48pm to 5:49 I did one search which led me to more videos,and found 13 1/2 minutes of content that infringed copyrights. So it could be even lower then 2880 possibly.

so you SERIOUSLY, expect other people/companies to hire people and do your work for you?

It's the copyright holders responsibility to protect their copyright and NOT the responsibility of the whole world.

Wouldn't it be a dream if everybody else was responsible for your problems? But sorry to destroy your dreams... that is not how it works.

If you want to protect your content, you have to monitor it and can not expect that other people do the work for you. And that is also what the law says you guys are so keen on mentioning the whole time.


The www is for everybody, and that is what makes it so great and why even you guys are here in this blackhat forum... If not everybody could easily create a website, have other people contribute content to their site, the www would be dead in the water. You fail to see the bigger picture, no one should have control over the internet.

If you don't want to share your content, monitor it! Sites like youtube give copyright holders the option to flag videos etc, so they should hire the 2700 people, and not the website where people contribute freely.