Toyo is a theif!

Cnotey said:

Ummm, let's get something straight. Sending out mass emails to a non-opt-in list is NOT illegal. CAN-SPAM only requires the ability to opt-out to be compliant.

It really pisses me off that people think sending out spam is illegal. It's not illegal, just frowned upon.

So let's stop calling the OP's operation "Illegal" because it's not.

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thats odd even toyo himself said what he does is illegal
i never new running a botnet of troganed pcs was legal

Pump and dump is illegal, as well as sending emails via botnet. Don't expect Toyo to come in here and give all the details of this situation ... it just creates a trail back to him which can be used against him for jail time.

Neither party deserves sympathy, if all speculation is correct it is paramount to the OP robbing a bank and being pissed off when he found out his get-away driver (Toyo) split.

The question is whether the deal was arranged through BHW without a sales thread or whether Toyo promoted his services using his identity at BHW as a reference.

Beyond that ... what does it boil down to? The OP is assumed an expert in mailing for pump and dump and apparently it was Toyo's first attempt at it. The OP could have very well known that it would fry Toyo's bot net and withheld that information ... knowingly causing Toyo to lose an asset. It sounds to me like Toyo lost something far more valuable than 4k ... should he bear all risk and fully accept the losses under those circumstances?

I don't have sympathy for either of them ... but the OP was engaging in risky business and Toyo CANNOT defend himself here without jeopardizing his freedom, and if that business didn't originate from here then why should he have to defend himself here anyways?

+1 to not banning if it was arranged outside of BHW, +1 to banning if it was.

what about all thoes infected pcs hes running as
the botnet for the service hes doing, spamming out
on probably thousands of home user compromised pcs
i wouldnt just ban him, ide drown him.
i pity if any of the compromised users get a knock on there
door to be accused of something they didnt do due to toyos
botnet, how would u feel if the knock on the door was yours.

I can also vouch about him deleting me from skype. I bought his emailing ebook, which is not really helpful. It took him about a week to send the stuff, and then he deleted me form his contacts. I bought his ebook August 2011. Till this day, he never responded back to me on skype, after he re-added me on skype (I sent a few requests to him asking for help. He said there's life time support.)

This dude is unethical and doesn't care about scamming others for their money. Stay away from him.

IKbentim said:

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Excellent thread A++++ would read again

just thought ide lighten the mood
if it can be b4 i goto bed

proxygo said:

what about all thoes infected pcs hes running as
the botnet for the service hes doing, spamming out
on probably thousands of home user compromised pcs
i wouldnt just ban him, ide drown him.
i pity if any of the compromised users get a knock on there
door to be accused of something they didnt do due to toyos
botnet, how would u feel if the knock on the door was yours.

Click to expand...

Ya whenever an fbi takes down a spamming botnet, they go and knock down on 100k-4 million houses to accuse them of sending spam. Thats exactly what the government does. With all that knowledge you have about botnets, you still talk like a pro.

Cartman obviously made Toyo do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3nScN89Klo&ob=av3n

stop flaming this thread :damnmate:

All of you get back to work!:breakpc1:

OP - You wired him that much money and did not discuss in detail what you were receiving and what was guaranteed???

You were dealing in a shady niche and you can expect stuff like this to happen. $4,000 is worth more then alot of people's BHW rep. Just saying...

Toyo still should not of received the funds knowing he could not complete the job. I am pretty sure he new it wasn't going to happen.. Looks as if he disappeared now?

I am not surprised, He scammed me too last year and sold me crappy basic instructions e-books for mass mailing
I just deleted him from my list and did not care about it because money was very small.

I don't think he will fix anything, hes not straight fellow like the rest of us . I think he should be banned already.

Sorry for your lost pal, Move on I've lost over 15k$ since March from different scammers but I learned - Nothing ventured, nothing gained

yeah i took a copy of his ebook from one of my clients, its info that i'd give away to my clients for free.

well, hes th eone who should decide what he has to do with what he knows, but that ebook wasn't worth his price anyways.

I think I am gonna take a print out of this thread. Had some very good laughs going through the replies. Seriously, BHW members got some real sense of humor.

P.S The is reply was totally offtopic!

Thread closed for a while.

If toyo, wants to reply, can pm me.

I'm guilty of monitoring the thread the whole of yesterday, and not posting to clarify some of the questions posed. I will try my best to explain the whole debacle that occurred and perhaps later on engage some of the questions that will pop up from this post.

The first issue here is on the concern of proxies. Many of you here lashed out on me because I'm mailing with proxies. As cool0403 has mentioned in this thread, many of you are using botnet proxies for a range of blackhat activities here without realizing. 90% of the free proxies available online are leaked from botnets, only 10% or less(which include planetlab proxies) of the proxies posted online are private proxies which has the consent of the owner of the IP for you to use it for a range of activities. If you are scraping proxies online to use tools like xrumer or scrapebox, you are already guilty of using botnet proxies for your activities.

OP, aka strtech or drw on skype(names changed to protect privacy) contacted me through skype early August 2011, enquiring whether I could do mailing for him in the tune of 1 million emails a day. He then posed to me general questions about my mailing, and I clarified whatever I could about the mailing process. He gave me a link to his site, which is a opt-in site for stocks. The site looked fine, no irregularities. He told me someone else mailed for him before, and his site got reported as a spam site, and microtrends put a warning on his site, and it wasn't fun to get it removed. I told him that is normal for a non-aged domain, and I can get his sites transferred to a bulletproof domain, and post it on several aged domains, so that he can collect the opt-ins from mailing and later host it back on his original domain.

He also asked me for hacked databases of several big name stock sites(names not mentioned to protect privacy), I told him I do not have them. He then asked me whether I could get them, and I told him I don't have the contacts to procure this kind of data. He said he will try out my data soon, and he will get the creatives for me to mail out. He went silent for a few months.

He contacted me early this month, telling me that he would be ready with the creatives soon. He then asked me several sensitive information about my mailings, I'm not posting details for privacy reasons. He then asked me whether do I do stocks, I said I have not done that before. I told him blatant stock promotion will generate unnecessary heat, and I do not need that at this moment.

We then discussed payment details, etc. He preferred wire, I told him that was not the best solution, as international wire transfers can take a few days to arrive. He did not mind that, and proceeded to discuss the mailing plans further. Since I wasn't comfortable with stock-mailing(aka pump and dump), we agreed on me mailing company profiles out, which was fine, as long as there isn't any blatant stock promotion, or anything in that nature. I was sure mailing out company profiles wasn't going to generate any unnecessary heat.

I asked him whether he would want the mailing to be completely anonymous. He said no, and we wanted the FROMs to be from 3 particular websites. He wanted to know more of the nature of this mailings, so he bought my mailing tutorials. He also asked me whether I have data from West Europe. He also wanted to mail out Western European company profiles.

I offered for him to mail 1 million emails a day, for 10 days, so that he can find out the best creatives to use and which method works best. He declined my offer, and chose to mail 10 million within a day. He said maybe he would opt for the lower mailing later on with another deal.

He then asked for something odd, i.e. contact mailing. Initially I though he wanted the audience to mail out to their own contacts promoting the company profile he sent out, but later it turned out that he wanted a script or virus within the email that would auto-send the email to all the contacts of a recipient. From my research, it was a feature within Mailer King that he wanted, and which he saw happening, and that wasn't possible without first gaining access to the login information of a free email account.

He wired the money on a Friday. He told me the wire had arrived on Tuesday night according to the tracking, and I started the mailing the moment he told me the wire had arrived and gave me the creatives. Due to the time difference, he wasn't online during when the mailing started. I mailed it around 3 a.m. US time, for the maximum response, so that the recipients will get the email first thing in the morning.

Before the mailing started, there were several issues with the creatives that I did not have the opportunity to discuss with him. We only agreed on mailing company profiles, and I told that I would not agree on blatant "pump and dump". The creatives that he send me has scammy penny stock advertising which included promises that the stock would rise 1100% within a short period of time. Since he was very impatient on Skype a few hours before, and wanted the mailing to be done before then 9th, my team decided to mail the creatives anyways, even though it wasn't what we had agreed upon before.

The mailing was scheduled to be completed within 12 hours, but there were major unexpected setbacks. The list which was used was fresh, and had already been cleaned from bounces, with an estimated hard bounce rate of less than 1%. His email creatives were modified to produce many different versions by using a reliable native english translator. He requested for the freshest list that I had, so I used the list which had the best conversion rate of a few mailings. The IPs and domains used were only exclusive to me, and there wasn't any other mailer or company using that IP list. I took many other steps to increase the deliverability and inboxing rate which I would not mention here.

The mailing started with a deliverability rate of 80-90%. After approximately 3 hours, it fell to 40%, then 10% after 6 hours. I initially thought there were issues with the proxy server or something equivalent. Given the urgent nature of this mailing, I then rented another IP list from a reliable provider to complete the mailing. My coder contacted me after one hour and told me that there was nothing wrong with the server or script settings, but there were little proxies left on the list because blacklisted ones gets auto-removed from the list. The same thing happened with the rented IP list that I got. The deliverability rates kept falling every 30 minutes, so I stopped the mailings so that the list would not die.

I seeded the mailing list with email addresses from various ISPs. Initially it was inboxing as usual. But after a few hours, the emails disappeared from the inbox and went to spam. Many of the IPs had rdns done my its ISPs, and the FROMs matched the rdns(a feature in send-safe), even then, in gmail, there was a red tag above the emails saying "Warning: This message may not be from whom it claims to be. Beware of following any links in it or of providing the sender with any personal information."

I proceeded to investigate the reason of the IP blacklists. Usually, the IP will only get blocked after the same proxy was available for weeks, sometime months. I mail way below my actual capacity, with each IP mailing around only 100 emails per hour. My proxy list is quite expensive to maintain. According to a whitehat mailer who had links within a few ISPs, the sample of IPs that I gave him were blacklisted for apparent "stock fraud". I don't think a refund is due here, as he broke the main clause of our agreement, which is only company profiles would be mailed.

See, this is exactly why BigBuddy gives the accused ample time to respond.

To me, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable explanation.

toyo said:

I don't think a refund is due here, as he broke the main clause of our agreement, which is only company profiles would be mailed.

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I'm not being biased but you could of told him that this was not in the agreement and given him his money back. You started mailing knowing this was going to be bad for you IPs due to stock fraud shit?

Anyway, that still sounds like a reasonable explanation. Lets see what OP has to say and oh, Mods too

Toyo, lets wait for OP's reply.

In the meantime, if you have chat script or mail conversation, where it deals with your prior agreement between you and OP, pm me those details.