Paypal, a platform for chargeback scammers . Any help?

NaiveKid

NaiveKid

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I have a Web development Agency and after only 2 months of accepting payments with paypal i got a a case where a client payed $3000 for a website and days after i delivered the website the client issued a chargeback with their card issuer(their bank) .Being new to this i never even thought this was possible and never ever have i imagined that paypal immediately takes your money away on hold just like that without your permission . To make the matters worse their support told me that i am illegible for seller protection so they will collect all the proof that i can provide and send it to the card issues(the client bank) to make the final decision . WTF....... So im i supposed to believe that a US bank is gonna give a fair decision to protect a non US seller instead of simply giving right to his client?? How the hell does this make any damn sense ???? Especially when it comes to proving digital goods (proof that i made a website).
Hopefully i never left my funds in paypal and immediately deposited in my debit card ,paypal wasnt able to scam me out of $3000 ,but i have a negative balance and wont be able to use it in the future . So any help from experienced members on what payment processors to choose so when i state in the terms of service that there is no refund when the work is initiated or after 50% of the work is done ,my terms and services would be respected and valid .
 
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I have experienced the same twice but for smaller amounts,I just simply refunded them and removed Paypal from my Websites and Stores I sell on.

Even I was looking for help in such cases,Crypto is one option but not all of them use it.
 
NaiveKid said:
I have a Web development Agency and after only 2 months of accepting payments with paypal i got a a case where a client payed $3000 for a website and days after i delivered the website the client issued a chargeback with their card issuer(their bank) .Being new to this i never even thought this was possible and never ever have i imagined that paypal immediately takes your money away on hold just like that without your permission . To make the matters worse their support told me that i am illegible for seller protection so they will collect all the proof that i can provide and send it to the card issues(the client bank) to make the final decision . WTF....... So im i supposed to believe that a US bank is gonna give a fair decision to protect a non US seller instead of simply giving right to his client?? How the hell does this make any damn sense ???? Especially when it comes to proving digital goods (proof that i made a website).
Hopefully i never left my funds in paypal and immediately deposited in my debit card ,paypal wasnt able to scam me out of $3000 ,but i have a negative balance and wont be able to use it in the future . So any help from experienced members on what payment processors to choose so when i state in the terms of service that there is no refund when the work is initiated or after 50% of the work is done ,my terms and services would be respected and valid .
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear what happened to you Paypal is in charge is kind of like the world biggest prick.

They will normally try and make the buyer always win and the seller always lose.

You can do this sort of thing give whatever prove or evidence you can get to support you done the job which you can present to Paypal.

That should help you win.

If email support a bit dumb or useless you can phone up Paypal tell them a colourful story then win that way but if you can charm the lady or man the phone to make the person take your side.

If that does not work for you I could tell you something a bit more dirty to make you win I suspect well.
 
Do not worry, just submit all your work's screenshot and customer's conversation emails screenshot. And write paypal that you are selling a digital product/service that might get your money back.
 
@polecat Please im all ears on this ,as far as they told me they just forward the information i give to the client bank and they decide if they charge me back or not .Its terrible how im i supposed to develop eCommerce websites for clients worth thousands of dollars and living in constant fear for 180 days (the valid time to make disputes.) that they will some day charge me back putting me in financial debt and getting free products.
 
@MisterF Ive heard making good legal contracts gives you some kind of protection but how will that work and researching online didnt find any help on how would that contract be signed and legitimized internationally ,most of my Clients or from US and im from Europe .
 
its not only paypal a chargeback can happen with any CC payment too.
there are tons of scams with CC's and there is even a term for people who just purchase stuff and later make false claims to get the money back and keep the items they purchased for free, its called "friendly fraud". as sellers we all have to deal with that sooner or later and it can be a real pain in the ass as credit card companies get the money back AND add chargeback fee's on top. its typically around $20 so not only will you lose the amount your item or servie is worth, but you have to pay a fee on top. here is an article that explains the problem: https://www.verifi.com/chargebacks-disputes-faq/what-is-friendly-fraud/
that being said, you can't really protect from it unless you make written contracts. i had bluesnap my merchant tell me before that i should provide a signed contract, like wtf for a software product someone downloads online how the fuck should you get a signed contract?! so most of the time you won't get your money back.
with paypal its a bit different. there its 50/50 ..sometimes you get it back, sometimes you don't.
 
@itz_styx Im not talking about some cheap products like $100-$200 ,that is a risk i am willing to take but here i develop eCommerce website and i pay a bunch of other developers to work with me as well so in cases like not only i lose the client money but im in minus net worth as the other developer get paid beforehand. So i will be thousands of dollars in debt , my eCommerce product for free , months of time and dedication gone to waste and after all that i still need to make a living . I guess i need some really strong legal advice how to make and draft contracts or i will be seeing myself in i world of trouble .I wonder how other agencies avoid these scammer tactics and platforms like paypal helping these scammers out . This needs to be addressed immediately
 
NaiveKid said:
@MisterF Ive heard making good legal contracts gives you some kind of protection but how will that work and researching online didnt find any help on how would that contract be signed and legitimized internationally ,most of my Clients or from US and im from Europe .
Click to expand...

If you have most of your clients in the US, open an LLC out there.
 
Escrow or Crypto Or direct bank transfer. Otherwise you are looking for trouble.
 
The problem is not PP.
CC issuers blindly take sides with the card users to avoid being unpaid.
Ask for direct bank transfers. Preferably to a local US or UK bank account.
 

@NaiveKid,​

NaiveKid said:
@itz_styx Im not talking about some cheap products like $100-$200 ,that is a risk i am willing to take but here i develop eCommerce website and i pay a bunch of other developers to work with me as well so in cases like not only i lose the client money but im in minus net worth as the other developer get paid beforehand. So i will be thousands of dollars in debt , my eCommerce product for free , months of time and dedication gone to waste and after all that i still need to make a living . I guess i need some really strong legal advice how to make and draft contracts or i will be seeing myself in i world of trouble .I wonder how other agencies avoid these scammer tactics and platforms like paypal helping these scammers out . This needs to be addressed immediately
Click to expand...

Here are your best options.
  • Use Escrow.com
  • Use SafeFunds.com
  • Use Zelle
  • Use Coinbase.com
  • Use HoneyBook.com
Zelle - if the client agrees to pay upfront without any milestones, this would be the absolute preferred method of payment.

The escrow companies speak for themselves, both companies accept milestone transactions. Your risks are extremely low once escrow is initiated. This is the preferred method, especially for providing the type of services you are providing.

Coinbase, as you know, using this payment method, there is little chance of buyer fraud, chargebacks, credit card fraud, etc.

If you use HoneyBook, they have contract templates that are signable; these legal and binding contracts protect you from false chargebacks. HoneyBook processes the payments, but unlike escrow, you receive the payment immediately. That stated if a client files a false chargeback, HoneyBook will take the lead (as long as you provide them with the signed contracts and proof of delivery) and fight on your behalf.

NEVER use PayPail for these types of transactions!
 
You must be going nuts. I would do your best job of collecting all your eveidence of a transaction with the client and submit to paypal.
 
I had a couple of disputes in Paypal and they lasted 1-2 months while I explained in detail to PayPal that the buyer was to blame and gave paypal a lot of evidence. As a result, I won in both of these disputes. The main thing is to prove that the truth is on your side and so gradually you will win. Yes, there are very long disputes, but online business is harsh.
 
@Crewchief007 Thanx for the detailed response .While zelle seems like a good option but its US only . And the escrow platforms dont seem like a good idea as i use the clients money to make any purchase (domain /hosting /developers.) HoneyBook seems like a good option where i can be legally protected . Ideally i would like a processing platform where i would have the edge.Besides bitcoin what is your opinion in Western Union (if you have any experience on it) ,its used to send international transactions you can pick up money by cash on checkpoint with an ID only. The seems to me like a good option for once or twice but i dont think i can do it regularly without raising false flags .
 
Most of the time if people chargeback on PayPal they will favor the buyer. If that does happen right away you should call about the dispute. I've had a few massive disputes and everytime I've called PayPal I have won them. Even disputes I have already lost I just call and get it put back into my favor.

One idea you could try is PayPal invoices that more clearly state the Terms of the service.
 
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