I can't figure out how this guy is doing this! Please help!

Kickflip said:
They are pretty legit. Is your client as legit as they are? Forget link building. Think reality. They are a BBB accredited business, I am sure Google takes that into consideration.
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If Google thinks that the BBB is a creditable firm than God help us all. I have insights into them from the off-line world. As long as you pay your dues they will make Charlie Manson look like Jesus. Sames as Dun & Bradstreet.
 
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Expertpeon said:
lol You shouldn't be sure about something so obviously false.
The 301 redirect is an old old method, I assume that the terms are pretty noncompetitive if it's working at all.
buynflfootballtickets.com has like 6 backlinks itself. so the redirect is literally doing nothing.
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How can you say its so obviously false? Do you have any proof that Google doesn't take it into consideration? If you guys don't know how important BBB Accreditation is, then you probably don't deal in legitimate sales much. Getting BBB Accreditation isn't the hard part. Keeping it is. There are many HUGE businesses which are not BBB Accredited. If they could just pay $600 to get it, don't you think they would?
 
Nookie Monster said:
If Google thinks that the BBB is a creditable firm than God help us all. I have insights into them from the off-line world. As long as you pay your dues they will make Charlie Manson look like Jesus. Sames as Dun & Bradstreet.
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That simply isn't true. I have had to work with the BBB a few times in my last job and they wouldn't give our company accreditation due to the number of complaints, even though we solved over 90% of the complaints to the satisfaction of the original complainant. Can you show me any example of a company with BBB accreditation who is a known scammer or has lots of complaints against them?

Another point: Google considers Wikipedia a credible source. Wikipedia can be edited by anyone. So why should the BBB have any less credibility than Wikipedia?

Also: Google Pagerank for: bbb.org 9/10
 
Kickflip said:
They are pretty legit. Is your client as legit as they are? Forget link building. Think reality. They are a BBB accredited business, I am sure Google takes that into consideration.
Click to expand...

If Google thinks that the BBB is a creditable firm than God help us all. I have insights into them from the off-line world. As long as you pay your dues they will make Charlie Manson look like Jesus. Sames as Dun & Bradstreet.
 
sickseo said:
Do you know if Google considers 301's a violation of their webmaster guidelines? I know it's an old-school technique... I didn't think anyone still did it.
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Yeah it's fine. I was wondering if there was any risk doing 301s as well, and how they thought about it. A couple days ago I came across a Matt Cutts video by pure accident, and he talked about it a bit. He said 301 redirects are fine, as long as they are related. He said when you start getting 301 redirects from different niches, then it starts to look fishy.
 
I could offer you a lot of evidence by way of rankings... since I watch a lot of BBB accredited sites with large backlink campaigns fair no better than their competitors (or maybe worse, but that's probably a sign of how dumb someone is that gets BBB accredited and the effect that stupidity has on SEO)

Oh and yes, I know of a lot of BBB accredited "scam" sites

Kickflip said:
How can you say its so obviously false? Do you have any proof that Google doesn't take it into consideration? If you guys don't know how important BBB Accreditation is, then you probably don't deal in legitimate sales much. Getting BBB Accreditation isn't the hard part. Keeping it is. There are many HUGE businesses which are not BBB Accredited. If they could just pay $600 to get it, don't you think they would?
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Expertpeon said:
I could offer you a lot of evidence by way of rankings... since I watch a lot of BBB accredited sites with large backlink campaigns fair no better than their competitors (or maybe worse, but that's probably a sign of how dumb someone is that gets BBB accredited)

Oh and yes, I know of a lot of BBB accredited "scam" sites
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That isn't evidence at all. Do you feel that Wikipedia links don't help websites rankings too? Wikipedia links are no-follow, yet I always see MASSIVE jumps in ranking when I get direct links from Wikipedia even without anchor text. Am I just witnessing a coincidence?

I have also watched a lot of BBB accredited sites dominate the rankings in wholesale clothing niches.
 
Kickflip said:
That isn't evidence at all. Do you feel that Wikipedia links don't help websites rankings too? Wikipedia links are no-follow, yet I always see MASSIVE jumps in ranking when I get direct links from Wikipedia even without anchor text. Am I just witnessing a coincidence?

I have also watched a lot of BBB accredited sites dominate the rankings in wholesale clothing niches.
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Wikipedia is amazingly efficient at removing links that don't fit articles on pages, unlike the BBB which that single link has farrrrrr less impact that a PRweb (paid) release.

In this case purely coincidence... never seen it have much impact. The large markets like Uggs, Coach purses, blahblah are all filled with non BBB accredited sites
 
Expertpeon said:
Wikipedia is amazingly efficient at removing links that don't fit articles on pages, unlike the BBB which that single link has farrrrrr less impact that a PRweb (paid) release.

In this case purely coincidence... never seen it have much impact. The large markets like Uggs, Coach purses, blahblah are all filled with non BBB accredited sites
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How can you say that a no-follow Wikipedia link has more effect than a do-follow link from BBB? If you do not work for Google, then you are just guessing. Nobody is saying that 1 do-follow link from the BBB is going to have more effect than 20,000 other links, but for you to complete discount that a link from a BBB accredited business page may indeed have a strong effect is just guessing with no sense behind it.

Wikipedia is incredibly easy to game because you can just create 1 page on your site with information, and link the Wikipedia article to that page. Now its on topic and people are very unlikely to remove it but you still get the juice flowing to your whole site through internal page linking.

The BBB listing for searching for this particular site gets top billing over myspace and itunes and more which means Google has to be viewing the BBB site with at least SOME authority. I am not saying having a BBB accredited site listing is the be all end all of SEO, but to just flat out say it has no real effect is complete shite with no legitimate reasoning.

There is more reasons to think Google DOES use BBB listings to help determine a sites overall authority/ranking than not.
 
Kickflip said:
How can you say that a no-follow Wikipedia link has more effect than a do-follow link from BBB? If you do not work for Google, then you are just guessing. Nobody is saying that 1 do-follow link from the BBB is going to have more effect than 20,000 other links, but for you to complete discount that a link from a BBB accredited business page may indeed have a strong effect is just guessing with no sense behind it.

Wikipedia is incredibly easy to game because you can just create 1 page on your site with information, and link the Wikipedia article to that page. Now its on topic and people are very unlikely to remove it but you still get the juice flowing to your whole site through internal page linking.
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Wikipedia gaming is probably a lost cause in itself, from what I've seen, it may be acceptable for low level niches but I haven't seen much effect from the effort even when generating hundreds of links to a site. Plus it's almost impossible to maintain links on the pedia, as I'm sure you know if you've tried... a single page won't do it.
Simply put, it may help you a little bit, but it won't help you much... not $600 much.

A paid PRweb submission is <$200... 3 of them >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BBB
 
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Expertpeon said:
Wikipedia gaming is probably a lost cause in itself, from what I've seen, it may be acceptable for low level niches but I haven't seen much effect from the effort even when generating hundreds of links to a site. Plus it's almost impossible to maintain links on the pedia, as I'm sure you know if you've tried... a single page won't do it.
Simply put, it may help you a little bit, but it won't help you much... not $600 much.

A paid PRweb submission is <$200... 3 of them >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BBB
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You are stating too much as fact when it is just your opinion. Please stop that unless you have some proof.

Low level niches? When I was working on my own site I was dominating hard SEO related terms using Wikipedia and the links stayed live for weeks/months at a time. There are lots of different and very effective ways to protect your site and keep the pages listed. I never needed more than a single page. I kept many .info single pages up on wikipedia for well over a year without any effort. It just takes finding the right page on wikipedia to do it.

Wikipedia is a BOSS if you are good at it. Is it easy for everyone to abuse? Of course not. But when you are GOOD at abusing it, it is amazing.

Of course there may be better ways of getting backlinks, I have not tried to dispute that. But you blatantly are saying the link is worthless without any logical reasoning is nonsense. You keep doing this every day acting like YOU know more about SEO than everyone else in the world and you know all of Googles secrets. If you know SO much about SEO and it is so easy to you, why aren't you the richest person on here?
 
Kickflip said:
You are stating too much as fact when it is just your opinion. Please stop that unless you have some proof.

Low level niches? When I was working on my own site I was dominating hard SEO related terms using Wikipedia and the links stayed live for weeks/months at a time. There are lots of different and very effective ways to protect your site and keep the pages listed. I never needed more than a single page. I kept many .info single pages up on wikipedia for well over a year without any effort. It just takes finding the right page on wikipedia to do it.

Wikipedia is a BOSS if you are good at it. Is it easy for everyone to abuse? Of course not. But when you are GOOD at abusing it, it is amazing.
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Again I haven't seen any SERP gain I could ever attribute to wikipedia...

Hand picked PR5+ d0follow blog comments on the other hand....
Everything is opinion in SEO, in case you haven't noticed.

Also never said I wasn't still learning, we all are, but certain things just smell funny to me, your argument that the site is ranking solely by BBB accreditation is one of them... I'm still assuming the niche the OP is working on is weak, and maybe the BBB is worth something, but in itself it's not worth much, at all.
Good SEO vs BBB links the Good SEO will win easily, that's the contention I've made. Of course a single link from a site can have impact, but not much... no matter what it is.
I have several PR8 d0follow links and no I'm not ranking #1 for the term (still 2nd page), that's because this term is very tough, and the top sites are making 5-7 million in profit annually
 
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Expertpeon said:
Again I haven't seen any SERP gain I could ever attribute to wikipedia...

Hand picked PR5+ d0follow blog comments on the other hand....
Everything is opinion in SEO, in case you haven't noticed.
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Everything is NOT opinion in SEO. The search engines use algorithms which react to specific actions in a predetermined way.

Nowhere did I say the site is ranked highly solely based on the BBB accreditation. I said that Google takes that into consideration because logically it would make sense. It is a high authority PR9 domain. Even IF we are to consider it a paid link, at $600 or something per year, its not something that a junk site is going to be investing in so Google doesn't have to be concerned about giving authority to a junk/scam site. BBB also doesn't openly deal with people dealing in counterfeit merchandise so for certain Niches, a BBB accreditation can mean a lot.
 
Kickflip said:
Everything is NOT opinion in SEO. The search engines use algorithms which react to specific actions in a predetermined way.
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Which people make decisions on based upon small amounts of poorly collected data (definitely not blind, isolated studies) and opinion.
 
I don't know how BBB works with SEO, but I can personally tell you its a hustle, I was an "F" rating with all 3 of my businesses, and once I paid the fee I was an "A" ,case closed.
 
Expertpeon said:
Which people make decisions on based upon small amounts of poorly collected data (definitely not blind, isolated studies) and opinion.
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Again, that is simply not true.

We know for a fact (as true as it can be) that Link Popularity plays a role in Googles ranking algorithm.

We know for a fact that if Google assigns a higher authority level to a specific site, then a link from that site will mean more than a link from a site with no or low level of authority.

These are not based on opinion.

BBB being well known as a VERY HIGH AUTHORITY website should therefore provide more valuable links than a random other website that does not have as much authority. That is a logical opinion, and there is no logical reason to doubt that.
 
Kickflip said:
BBB being well known as a VERY HIGH AUTHORITY website should therefore provide more valuable links than a random other website that does not have as much authority. That is a logical opinion, and there is no logical reason to doubt that.
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There's lots of logical reasons to doubt that BBB can be solely responsible (or even contribute that much) for ranking even moderately competitive niches...
 
seobizwiz said:
I don't know how BBB works with SEO, but I can personally tell you its a hustle, I was an "F" rating with all 3 of my businesses, and once I paid the fee I was an "A" ,case closed.
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How is that case closed? Do you know how the BBB works?

BBB bases its ratings off of complaints from customers/clients.
If the BBB receives a complaint, it relies on the customers word.
The BBB doesn't spend their money trying to find the root cause of the complaint or follow up to see if it was resolved.

If you get lots of these complaints, even if they were resolved, if the BBB wasn't notified of them being resolved, you will have a low rating.

Now if you get accredited, the BBB will look further into past complaints AND they will get more information about the size of your business and how many transactions you do vs. how many complaints to make the decision as to whether or not you are overall a trustworthy company. They compare your company with other companies in the industry as well to see how the number of complaints stacks up.

If you stop paying dues, then the BBB will stop screening complaints again.

I just don't see how it is a hustle. It is a business, but the main idea of the business is to do research into which companies are getting legitimate complaints, and which are getting frivolous complaints or no complaints at all.
 
Kickflip. I appreciate your opinion on this matter. Rep'd
 
Expertpeon said:
There's lots of logical reasons to doubt that BBB can be solely responsible (or even contribute that much) for ranking even moderately competitive niches...
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Such as? You are looking at it from a different view then Google quality programmers would.

Google wants to ensure that Junky/Anonymous/Spammy sites with no accountability stay out of the rankings as much as possible. BBB accreditation requires a significant investment that most Junky/Anonymous/Spammy sites simply won't invest. BBB accreditation requires a contact person and phone number and address be listed. Most Junky/Anonymous/Spammy sites wont list that information.

It is a very decent filter to separate Junk sites from Legitimate Business sites.
 
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