BHW marketplace 2.0 - thoughts.

[roman375]

I do not understand the reasoning behind it being a % of sale system. If a vendor chooses not to use the additional affiliate feature, do they still have to pay 20-30% from each sale they make on the new marketplace? If so, why is it such a high percentage and why is it percentage based at all?

You compare the new marketplace to Fiverr, but the only reason the % based system works on Fiverr is because the vast majority of the services are in a similar price range. With your new marketplace, if I'm selling a service that costs $1000 per order, I would have to give up $200-300 from every sale. Another user selling a different service for $10, gives up $2-3 per sale. Why do I have to pay you 100 times fold what he does if we are both paying for the same exact thing (supporting the costs of the new marketplace), assuming we do not want to use the affiliate feature?

 

[SEOMadHatter]

Considering the forum we're in it's not going to surprise anyone that review sites with a purchase like Fiverr, Airbnb or Amazon are gamed all the time. Sure, it's tougher than just a bunch of forum accounts but there's still only so much you can do to prevent it.

So a 20% hike seems like a lot.

 

[Maj MAji]

I agree. After some very frustrating dealings with garbage BST's i would welcome the extra costs for getting the services we expect. Consistency. a lot of sellers are extremely responsive pre-sale. However, once you fork over your hard earned money they refuse to answer your queries and when they finally deliver your order its utter garbage.
I am sure MANY have had consistently similar experiences. I for one think its a great idea and would pay extra to ensure that the forum is purged of this garbage.

 

[Silver Linen]

I

BHW 2.0 is now well on it's way, which will be delivered for public beta in the next few weeks. For clarity, it will maintain the current marketplace structure on release.

I let the cat out of the bag in a previous thread https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/concerning-review-by-mod.1105836/page-3#post-11920269 we're looking at options around a second tier of the marketplace, whilst still maintaining the current marketplace side by side with an AirBnB / fiver model which with a spin which will provide additional sources of leads and revenue to those with a 2.0 marketplace seller account and affiliate deals for all forum members baked into your BHW account. It's a work in progress at the moment and early stages of what we're going to do exactly but we've been putting the idea out there to select members and have had some engaging feedback.

If you have any thoughts on this - please feel free to pm directly or post below.

For clarity:
1. It will be totally optional
2. Transactions will run through BHW directly so we can confirm review are from buyers.
3. It's going to run as invite-only to start with.
4. This isn't part of the first release of BHW 2.0 it will be released later in the year.

Would you pay 20-30% more for a service backed by BHW who's quality is reviewed on a monthly basis with service indicators and air bnb style review processes.?

I guess that's a great idea, BHW reviewing services but I think paying 30% more for the services is quite on the high end

 

[Leith]

So to reiterate and get some clarifications, future state of costs to BHW to sell services are:

• Jr. VIP, which will be increasing 50% annually
• Sales thread cost
• The BUYER pays an additional 20-30% on top of the service cost, which is pocketed by BHW
• Whatever the cost of escrow would be

In return, we will have the fantastic new ability to have this same entity essentially controlling where money goes, on a BLACK HAT forum, that has had user information leaked publicly in the past, has been the subject of FBI investigations, and sells shady services like cracked Spotify accounts, game hack spam, and document forgery?

I'll be 100% honest, I use this site mainly to interact with others that are in the same field I am, and to provide writing services occasionally. I have also bought tens of thousands of dollars in services from BHW members via the site, and have reviewed thousands of dollars on top of that.

This would be a double kiss of death for me. Fourfold cost increases that affect both buyers and sellers, on top of the current issues that have been going on, I don't see how a massive drop in engagement and quality is not on the horizon. Fix your current issues (blatant fake review spam, site downtime, nightly spam threads where fixes have been proposed and ignored, attrition of high-value members leaving the forum, etc), THEN talk about shiny new objects.

Especially the blatant fake reviews. This can't just be me, but there are very specific "established" sellers who are clearly participating in fake reviews on their BSTs. I really find it hard to believe that it's coincidence that 20+ new members used noticeably similar writing styles in their supposedly genuine reviews. I had a quick look just now at the recent comments on one of them and found dozens of very identical and suspicious reviews. Going back on previous pages on the thread and you'll notice a very unusual pattern. This seller (and others) have been called out before from members on this forum, yet no action was taken (despite there being plenty of sufficient evidence IMO).

I'm pretty sure most members know who I'm referring to, and this particular member has been doing fake reviews for years. The general rule on BHW is you can't bump your thread more than once within the 72 hour period, so as a way of getting around this, these certain sellers exchange fake reviews on each other's threads in order to bump their BSTs to the top.

Introducing an optional, better marketplace sounds exciting - but it still doesn't fix the current issues with the existing marketplace. Earlier today, I saw a member complaining inside a BST that the OP had copied his content for the sales thread. Instead of the moderator who reviewed the thread looking into this, they provided a harsh/strict warning and gave a really surprising response to the problem.

IMO I think some of the moderators currently doing reviews could do with some guidance on how best to assess certain types of services. Members like @Zwielicht and @BassTrackerBoats are doing a fine job, but it's the other moderators who seem to be slightly out of loop. For example, with the way the SEO industry is changing, we need moderators who are able to gauge and review link building services appropriately. The same applies with other services (such as the Instagram verification BST).

We need moderators who understand the full contents of what they're reviewing. If the moderator who reviewed the Instagram verification service had experience in the social media industry, they would have known that verifications on Instagram are almost impossible to purchase from a 3rd party - and by knowing this, they would have been able to ask the right questions before the thread was approved.

We have a great community on this forum and the potential is huge. Instead of introducing new features (which I'm not against), can we maybe take a step back and look at existing problems first (as listed by Sherb) and work on them? Problems only get solved if we stop ignoring them. Would be great to see the existing issues addressed and then the new features implemented. I have no doubt the marketplace can be improved to a much better level, but in order to do this we need to fix what's currently wrong with it.

 

[WarLords]

this is an awesome idea can't wait to see we have these in place

 

[Deleted member 855230]

I'm butt hurt.



That is not accurate. You don't see what goes on in the BST Approval subforum.

I've not commented in this thread as it has gone three ways sideways with a lot of commentary not germane to the topic and I've deferred to @Diamond Damien as he is quite active here but I'm fine with making the above comments.

@Blain Cooper, if you have one of those butt hurt reports you see floating around the internet please PM me three copies so I can fill them out and get them notarized by the girl in the office.

My point is that we all have our specialties. My strength is my writing, my weakness is how I use it



As for this system here’s how it will be abused:

People will just have a username like @SMMnet , and spam the forum with useless threads, gaining attention to their username url.

@Diamond Damien What’s stopping users from providing an easy way to circumvent the “30% buyers tax” like the above username?

 

[IG Professor]

The thing that makes this community & marketplace so valuable it's the freedom of speech, mods who listen and read what you wrote, and not giving you pre-made answers like eBay or Fiverr rep. and a marketplace that gives the chance for people to sell their services on their own website. without having Fivverr or eBay the spy stock to your neck. We came here to rant about them.

The forum is called "Blackhatworld" which means the community is not moving in a straight line like monkeys, community here usually think out of the box, Making strict rules and tight eye on all transactions and deals will transform the marketplace to Fiverr / eBay - I can't survive in their boring forums more than 1 hour. but put me in here, with the freedom and the blackhat minds talking and I feel like a fish in the water.

Marketplace Quality
Some people here come and complain about Quality and other issues they have with sellers. They blame the mods/forum/members for their own mistakes. They are the guys who push the button and placed the order. Not the mods. and this is business also, you win some you lose some. and lessons costs money! . The mods or the forum is not who you should blame. When I purchase something online nor in real life, I never put the blame on the salesman or my dad or my mom or my 21 Girl friends from Swedeen that waiting for me with a glass of martini. This is my own mistake. Go ahead compare this forum quality to other online marketplaces and you will comeback here and kiss the logo. Didn't even talk about the shitlist services protection that we have.


From the other side
I am not the guy who run this biz however trying to think from that point of view I pretty sure that I was thinking about taking fees on transaction going on "My forum" to double my revenue but the forum will lose his magic and there is no price for magics. not even talking about the mods that will become police officers monitor transactions all day long and competitors that will use the system against each the other. It's a blackhat forum

Not sure that anything from I wrote will make some minds rethink about that because it looks like the decision is already been made, however, I had the feeling that I need to put some of my tune in this thread.No matter if I Love it or hate it, I will stay here as a loyal night wolf

Cheers and goodluck

 

[BrandingCat]

Without being rude but sellers help a lot the forum in a way or other.

20% bhw share it's way to much and everyone will swear you like we swear Paypal now.

Also most of the sellers will raise of course the prices at +20% as we do on all other platforms and the buyers will suffer as well.

Always will be bad sellers and buyers, nothing will change your new system and everybody knows that.

Keep it clean and classic.

 

[Stavro]

And that's what you'll get, detailed reviews which in turn will benefit the organic ranking of services on search engines.

With these publicly visible reviews be fully detailed, or will they be along the lines of 'confirmed that the service is being offered'? Will the examination of the service be thorough, or will obviously stolen promotional content be allowed to remain in the sales thread?

If the current marketplace will stay as-is, and the extra scrutiny will be reserved for 2.0, that will cause the reputation of services in the standard marketplace to fall by comparison. But if the enhanced scrutiny and reviews will apply to all, that diminishes the value of being in 2.0.

Basically, what I'm asking is what tangible value is paid for by that 30%? All I'm seeing so far is a more thorough review (which should be standard), an optional escrow service (which will interfere with subscription-based services), and an optional affiliate program (though it's unclear if opting out reduces the overall cost).

 

[NicolaeP]

So this year I was going to upgrade to jr.vip. I live in an EU country, but still considered in the 3rd world. To upgrade to jr.vip I will have to pay a lot of money, For many people in my country is a full montly wage. What will bring this increase : fewer new jr.vip, but on the other hand more qualitative. for me it is a sad ad, especially it is 50% more.

 

[Finn]

Especially the blatant fake reviews. This can't just be me, but there are very specific "established" sellers who are clearly participating in fake reviews on their BSTs. I had a quick look just now at the recent comments on one of them and found dozens of very identical and suspicious reviews. Going back on previous pages on the thread and you'll notice a very unusual pattern. This seller (and others) have been called out before from members on this forum, yet no action was taken (despite there being plenty of sufficient evidence IMO).

I'm pretty sure most members know who I'm referring to, and this particular member has been doing fake reviews for years. The general rule on BHW is you can't bump your thread more than once within the 72 hour period, so as a way of getting around this, these certain sellers exchange fake reviews on each other's threads in order to bump their BSTs to the top.

Introducing an optional, better marketplace sounds exciting - but it still doesn't fix the current issues with the existing marketplace. Earlier today, I saw a member complaining inside a BST that the OP had copied his content for the sales thread. Instead of the moderator who reviewed the thread looking into this, they provided a harsh/strict warning and gave a really surprising response to the problem.

IMO I think some of the moderators currently doing reviews could do with some guidance on how best to review certain types of services. Members like @Zwielicht and @BassTrackerBoats are doing a fine job, but it's the other moderators who seem to be slightly out of loop. For example, with the way the SEO industry is changing, we need moderators who are able to gauge and review link building services appropriately. The same applies with other services (such as the Instagram verification BST).

We need moderators who understand the full contents of what they're reviewing. If the moderator who reviewed the Instagram verification service had experience in the social media industry, they would have known that verifications on Instagram are almost impossible to purchase from a 3rd party - and by knowing this, they would have been able to ask the right questions before the thread was approved.

We have a great community on this forum and the potential is huge. Instead of introducing new features (which I'm not against), can we maybe take a step back and look at existing problems first (as listed by Sherb) and work on them? Problems only get solved if we stop ignoring them. Would be great to see the existing issues addressed and then the new features implemented. I have no doubt the marketplace can be improved to a much better level, but in order to do this we need to fix what's currently wrong with it.

Sorry if I might be stepping on someone's toes with this post, but I like to use the possibility to speak up here as well, please.

First of all, I would like to clarify that I have nothing else than the highest respect for the forum, its community, staff members, and the owners @Diamond Damien & @BHW Advertising - Just to get the tone right of my message and feedback before I proceed, since all of this is meant in a friendly and constructive way. Also, please keep in mind that this is just my personal opinion about the discussion, so I could be totally wrong here as well.

@Leith - In my opinion, you absolutely hit the nail on the head here, really this speaks out of my heart. I totally agree with you, we should at least try fixing the current issues first before directly jumping into a new marketplace system, regardless of its features. The argument that the Marketplace 2.0 would fix those issues does not really count for me here, since we would still have the issues ongoing in Marketplace 1.0. Hope you got my point here, and I think several other members also made a similar point about this.

In regards to the fake bump/review behavior which is mainly caused by a single member, at least in this high dimension, is pretty annoying. I could be totally wrong here, but in my personal opinion, there could be a conflict of interest due to the high paid ADs done by the seller in question, which seems to be one of the reasons he gets away with his actions. It has been brought up many times before, and I was one of the members who reported dozens of these obvious fake accounts too, yet my only response on the reports was "No Evidence" - which made me kinda sad and I also stopped reporting them a longer time ago.

This is actually one of the main reasons why I have stopped running paid ADs for the time being, since it feels unfair for me as a seller, who does not take advantage of doing fake reviews and bumps in my BSTs. Do you know what's also odd? The seller in question does not speak English on a high level at all, so there are several grammar and spelling mistakes which he is used to do when writing with him over Skype or PM, because of his limited English skills. Guess what? The exact same grammar and spelling mistakes are also done by a lot of those fake reviews posted by newbie accounts. There is a clear pattern and people with some sense spotting these right away.

But what does that mean for the community? First of all, you are having a bunch of newbies, including myself, when I registered here a few years ago, who falls for this BS. They get impressed by the number of postings and reviews, making their orders, and in most cases ending up with a hand full of garbage links, which never index on Google. In case you are asking yourself now "But Finn, have you even tested this personally?" - The answer is a clear yes, I have tested all of these services and I know very well what I am talking about. If you are a newbie you will not recognize what is going on, but as soon as you know your stuff, you ending up disappointed and mostly need to disavow the links via Google Search Console. For me as a seller, the point already came where I asked myself "Alright, should I do fake reviews too now?" - The answer was pretty clear, of course not, because that is not my style and only unprofessional members would do so.

Imagen now how many people have ordered from these BS services, ending up with garbage links and then never come back to the forum again, because of the negative experience they have made? I guess the number must be a lot higher than you and me could even imagen. On the long run, this can kill a community, and I don't want this to happen because I truly love BlackHatWorld and I mostly got my whole marketing knowledge from here. I have literary met the BEST people on here which I am in contact with for several years, we respect each other and I like to keep it that way. Just to name a few, I am talking about @Sherb @Asif WILSON Khan @BassTrackerBoats @MisterF @Apricot @Zwielicht @Nerva and many others. There is a real level of trust and respect which comes into play here, and I am proud to be part of this awesome community, some of those members I would even consider as a family after the years of doing business together.

Again, all of this is meant in a friendly way and I do not want to create any kind of negative vibes here at all. This is just me, who likes to provide a few honest thoughts about what is going on and the current discussion in this thread. If any of the MODs or owners might think my post is inappropriate, then please delete it, as I don't want to create any kind of issues here at all.

Basically, I am just interested in making this forum even a better place than it already is.

 

[Deleted member 719276]

Sorry if I might be stepping on someone's toes with this post, but I like to use the possibility to speak up here as well, please.

First of all, I would like to clarify that I have nothing else than the highest respect for the forum, its community, staff members, and the owners @Diamond Damien & @BHW Advertising - Just to get the tone right of my message and feedback before I proceed, since all of this is meant in a friendly and constructive way. Also, please keep in mind that this is just my personal opinion about the discussion, so I could be totally wrong here as well.

@Leith - In my opinion, you absolutely hit the nail on the head here, really this speaks out of my heart. I totally agree with you, we should at least try fixing the current issues first before directly jumping into a new marketplace system, regardless of its features. The argument that the Marketplace 2.0 would fix those issues does not really count for me here, since we would still have the issues ongoing in Marketplace 1.0. Hope you got my point here, and I think several other members also made a similar point about this.

In regards to the fake bump/review behavior which is mainly caused by a single member, at least in this high dimension, is pretty annoying. I could be totally wrong here, but in my personal opinion, there could be a conflict of interest due to the high paid ADs done by the seller in question, which seems to be one of the reasons he gets away with his actions. It has been brought up many times before, and I was one of the members who reported dozens of these obvious fake accounts too, yet my only response on the reports was "No Evidence" - which made me kinda sad and I also stopped reporting them a longer time ago.

This is actually one of the main reasons why I have stopped running paid ADs for the time being, since it feels unfair for me as a seller, who does not take advantage of doing fake reviews and bumps in my BSTs. Do you know what's also odd? The seller in question does not speak English on a high level at all, so there are several grammar and spelling mistakes which he is used to do when writing with him over Skype or PM, because of his limited English skills. Guess what? The exact same grammar and spelling mistakes are also done by a lot of those fake reviews posted by newbie accounts. There is a clear pattern and people with some sense spotting these right away.

But what does that mean for the community? First of all, you are having a bunch of newbies, including myself, when I registered here a few years ago, who falls for this BS. They get impressed by the number of postings and reviews, making their orders, and in most cases ending up with a hand full of garbage links, which never index on Google. In case you are asking yourself now "But Finn, have you even tested this personally?" - The answer is a clear yes, I have tested all of these services and I know very well what I am talking about. If you are a newbie you will not recognize what is going on, but as soon as you know your stuff, you ending up disappointed and mostly need to disavow the links via Google Search Console. For me as a seller, the point already came where I asked myself "Alright, should I do fake reviews too now?" - The answer was pretty clear, of course not, because that is not my style and only unprofessional members would do so.

Imagen now how many people have ordered from these BS services, ending up with garbage links and then never come back to the forum again, because of the negative experience they have made? I guess the number must be a lot higher than you and me could even imagen. On the long run, this can kill a community, and I don't want this to happen because I truly love BlackHatWorld and I mostly got my whole marketing knowledge from here. I have literary met the BEST people on here which I am in contact with for several years, we respect each other and I like to keep it that way. Just to name a few, I am talking about @Sherb @Asif WILSON Khan @BassTrackerBoats @MisterF @Apricot @Zwielicht @Nerva and many others. There is a real level of trust and respect which comes into play here, and I am proud to be part of this awesome community, some of those members I would even consider as a family after the years of doing business together.

Again, all of this is meant in a friendly way and I do not want to create any kind of negative vibes here at all. This is just me, who likes to provide a few honest thoughts about what is going on and the current discussion in this thread. If any of the MODs or owners might think my post is inappropriate, then please delete it, as I don't want to create any kind of issues here at all.

Basically, I am just interested in making this forum even a better place than it already is.

 

[Fresh Ideas Marketing]

@Leith You remind me of companies that started in early 2012-2013, were providing SEO packages worth $500-$2K+ .
These companies definitely used fake reviews, still we get thread bumps or most active threads 55% I guess will be fake account, coz people asking samples just have 1-15 posts and they wake up a day before asking a sample.
Many $1-$10 pbn provider were reaching to Skype saying " please write on my thread give me a sample" , so then after this those samples turned into order and then to review.
But I saw that their thread was full of their staff members and partners. Most of these threads were approved by mod called as BigBuddy . BigBuddy was one of the biggest service provider of the time too.
But, there is nothing that @Diamond Damien , @BassTrackerBoats or @MisterF can do because it's an online world. If someone has to get fake reviews they will make a way, there will always be lack of evidence , so many ips, so many members, and many premium members. It will directly impact the earning of board.

 

[Pro-Hustler]

Don't raise JrVip donation, please

 

[Lukmat]

@Leith You remind me of companies that started in early 2012-2013, were providing SEO packages worth $500-$2K+ .
These companies definitely used fake reviews, still we get thread bumps or most active threads 55% I guess will be fake account, coz people asking samples just have 1-15 posts and they wake up a day before asking a sample.
Many $1-$10 pbn provider were reaching to Skype saying " please write on my thread give me a sample" , so then after this those samples turned into order and then to review.
But I saw that their thread was full of their staff members and partners. Most of these threads were approved by mod called as BigBuddy . BigBuddy was one of the biggest service provider of the time too.
But, there is nothing that @Diamond Damien , @BassTrackerBoats or @MisterF can do because it's an online world. If someone has to get fake reviews they will make a way, there will always be lack of evidence , so many ips, so many members, and many premium members. It will directly impact the earning of board.

It's not only this. I've seen threads, where buyer have hundreds of posts like:
Transaction ID xxx Order zzz
posted by clients.
Guess where he put this info. In order confirmation email, he have request to go to BHW and send post. I got warning when I asked my buyers for this.
I reported this popular documents seller but nobody reacted.

So what's the point to have 72h promotional bump rule if big sellers don't care.

 

[Xalion]

But, there is nothing that @Diamond Damien , @BassTrackerBoats or @MisterF can do because it's an online world. If someone has to get fake reviews they will make a way, there will always be lack of evidence , so many ips, so many members, and many premium members. It will directly impact the earning of board.

What about common sense?

4 reviews or so per page with something like; Sarkar is the best! Seeing amazing results just after two weeks. Main keyword from 817 to #6 in just 7 days! Will be back for more Sarkar!

Really?

 

[supervitallica]

The problem I have with the marketplace is that I have to ask sellers their business information beforehand in order to file these expenses for my business. I like the setup of seoclerks because I can top up my balance and just get an invoice for the top up and not for each purchase I make.

It would be nice to see this system or a system where I don't have to ask for business details all the time.

 

[Fresh Ideas Marketing]

What about common sense?

4 reviews or so per page with something like; Sarkar is the best! Seeing amazing results just after two weeks. Main keyword from 817 to #6 in just 7 days! Will be back for more Sarkar!

Really?

Well, commonsense is for buyers. Forum will need evidence, and no evidence is here. In addition to this, he is one of the biggest advertiser so loss in earning is there ( just a view).

The problem I have with the marketplace is that I have to ask sellers their business information beforehand in order to file these expenses for my business. I like the setup of seoclerks because I can top up my balance and just get an invoice for the top up and not for each purchase I make.

It would be nice to see this system or a system where I don't have to ask for business details all the time.

Do you chat with them before ordering? Ask for name and tax id , what's the issue?
I have many UK clients who openly ask this with invoice and I do provide.
Actually, you shouldn't hire someone if you aren't satisfied.

 

[supervitallica]

Do you chat with them before ordering? Ask for name and tax id , what's the issue?
I have many UK clients who openly ask this with invoice and I do provide.
Actually, you shouldn't hire someone if you aren't satisfied.

Yes, I chat with them first to ask if they are able to provide these details. I get a success rate of 50% which is not good for me and the sellers.
Some sellers don't have a tax ID or do not want to share it. So I need to skip their services.