Ban these types of jv's...

[kasher9]

Hey,

I was on the phone to a friend today, he's asked me not to name him, but he was ripped off by a jv from BHW. He doesn't have an account and the deal was conducted away from BHW.

But after reading the shitlist section, I had an idea.

I think these types of jv's should be banned for the sake of members and the moderators:

- Paypal acc split (i.e. give me your aged paypal, and i'll give % of rev)
- Adsense acc split
- Any type of "I need account to accept payments, I'll give you a cut" (although this one is kind of loose and probably can be disputed)

My reasons are:

- It creates more problems further down the line for moderators
- The risk vs reward just isn't there for newbies; I know a lot of guys that have aged paypals for ex (failed ebay attempts etc) but don't really know forums like BHW (my old office was full of them apparently), and when they go on BHW for the first time, and see jv's like that, they take the risk and the reward (generally speaking) isn't there.
- People are fucking idiots; these types of jv threads all just sound like bait traps. I mean come on, if you have access to bhw, you have access to a paypal acc provider (I know at least 1 good supplier from here) so it really is stupid to post a jv, the whole premise of it is questionable.

Thoughts?

 

[Word Wizard]

Maybe just prohibit yellows from posting JVs

 

[Kratos168]

Hey,

I was on the phone to a friend today, he's asked me not to name him, but he was ripped off by a jv from BHW. He doesn't have an account and the deal was conducted away from BHW.

But after reading the shitlist section, I had an idea.

I think these types of jv's should be banned for the sake of members and the moderators:

- Paypal acc split (i.e. give me your aged paypal, and i'll give % of rev)
- Adsense acc split
- Any type of "I need account to accept payments, I'll give you a cut" (although this one is kind of loose and probably can be disputed)

My reasons are:

- It creates more problems further down the line for moderators
- The risk vs reward just isn't there for newbies; I know a lot of guys that have aged paypals for ex (failed ebay attempts etc) but don't really know forums like BHW (my old office was full of them apparently), and when they go on BHW for the first time, and see jv's like that, they take the risk and the reward (generally speaking) isn't there.
- People are fucking idiots; these types of jv threads all just sound like bait traps. I mean come on, if you have access to bhw, you have access to a paypal acc provider (I know at least 1 good supplier from here) so it really is stupid to post a jv, the whole premise of it is questionable.

Thoughts?

I am not sure about this to be honest. I had a JV previously, I am providing the ad accounts and the other person would provide a campaign that is profitable. I know this sound sketchy but this jv turns out very well as we are now making lots of money daily (I have never seen so much money in my life on a daily basis). That partner status is a newbie on BHW and I am expecting my first payout tomorrow. I had a couple of more senior members discussing about potential JV but most are not suitable at all.

I am not trying to say that all newbies on this forum can be trusted but my point is that we never know as someone might turn out trustwhorthy and the length or contribution on this forum should not be use as a sole indiicator of trustworthiness.

Nevertheless, I do agree to a certain extend one should not loan out his/her payment processor nor selling account unless you are in control of the product that you are selling or at least holding on to it.

 

[lightningblitz]

It is amazing people fall for it.

Maybe a rule that states for this type of JV to be approved the person asking must buy a Paypal and allow the approving moderator must be able to see how money is made and verify the account remains alive?

I have never seen a JV like this work out. And it always ends horribly.

Yet people are always chomping at the bit to accept the JV.

 

[Zwielicht]

I'm not even sure if those types of threads actually constitute as "true JVs" as defined in the current JV sticky rules thread.

https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/updated-2013-jv-rules.519925/

Only offer true JV's ie you're good at content I'm good at bringing traffic lets find someone who is good at site design.

But I think the JV sticky rules just need to be reworked entirely to further clarify what is and what isn't allowed, as well as provide some information on the JV approval process (similarly to the threads in the marketplace rules section)
I've added the joint venture section rules thread to our list of rules that need to be revised. I'll consult with the other moderators about your proposal to prohibit PayPal and Adsense account sharing JVs.

Maybe just prohibit yellows from posting JVs

I stated before that we've already restricted yellow members enough. We don't want to deter new members away from the forum.

No. I feel that yellow members are already restricted enough. Any additional restrictions and Black Hat World will be like one of those free-to-play games where 99.999% of the content is locked behind a membership and the other 0.001% is just blue balls for the real game.

When you see avatars with blatant promotions in them, report them. I've already removed the avatars for the accounts you listed.

 

[theRevolt]

Hey,

I was on the phone to a friend today, he's asked me not to name him, but he was ripped off by a jv from BHW. He doesn't have an account and the deal was conducted away from BHW.

But after reading the shitlist section, I had an idea.

I think these types of jv's should be banned for the sake of members and the moderators:

- Paypal acc split (i.e. give me your aged paypal, and i'll give % of rev)
- Adsense acc split
- Any type of "I need account to accept payments, I'll give you a cut" (although this one is kind of loose and probably can be disputed)

My reasons are:

- It creates more problems further down the line for moderators
- The risk vs reward just isn't there for newbies; I know a lot of guys that have aged paypals for ex (failed ebay attempts etc) but don't really know forums like BHW (my old office was full of them apparently), and when they go on BHW for the first time, and see jv's like that, they take the risk and the reward (generally speaking) isn't there.
- People are fucking idiots; these types of jv threads all just sound like bait traps. I mean come on, if you have access to bhw, you have access to a paypal acc provider (I know at least 1 good supplier from here) so it really is stupid to post a jv, the whole premise of it is questionable.

Thoughts?

Similar to this one: HERE?
I always keep wondering how people risk their PayPal that can and likely will get chargebacks and then send on the amount made by non-reversible payment methods.
These are the scams you get in your email, I mean there they just call you receiving agent but we all know how this all ends up...

 

[kasher9]

I am not sure about this to be honest. I had a JV previously, I am providing the ad accounts and the other person would provide a campaign that is profitable. I know this sound sketchy but this jv turns out very well as we are now making lots of money daily (I have never seen so much money in my life on a daily basis). That partner status is a newbie on BHW and I am expecting my first payout tomorrow. I had a couple of more senior members discussing about potential JV but most are not suitable at all.

I am not trying to say that all newbies on this forum can be trusted but my point is that we never know as someone might turn out trustwhorthy and the length or contribution on this forum should not be use as a sole indiicator of trustworthiness.

Nevertheless, I do agree to a certain extend one should not loan out his/her payment processor nor selling account unless you are in control of the product that you are selling or at least holding on to it.

ad accounts are completely different. Thats why I specifically worded my OP to avoid saying advert accounts. I would agree with you there is some level of success in loaning ad accounts out (I have seen this firsthand in the past)

I'm not even sure if those types of threads actually constitute as "true JVs" as defined in the current JV sticky rules thread.

https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/updated-2013-jv-rules.519925/

But I think the JV sticky rules just need to be reworked entirely to further clarify what is and what isn't allowed, as well as provide some information on the JV approval process (similarly to the threads in the marketplace rules section)
I've added the joint venture section rules thread to our list of rules that need to be revised. I'll consult with the other moderators about your proposal to prohibit PayPal and Adsense account sharing JVs.

I stated before that we've already restricted yellow members enough. We don't want to deter new members away from the forum.

Yeah agreed - they aren't true jvs, yet they have been approved even in the past few months.

https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/my-revenue-your-paypal.1020365/

^^ this one is a clear example as to why these should be prohibited.

People are just too stupid (pardon my cynicism) to vet these types of setups themselves.

 

[Wilson Grant Fisk]

Maybe you could share with Mods/Admin the name of the person in the JV who ripped off your friend, just so they can keep an eye on them and check the account.

 

[nmehic]

Members taking on that type of risk should expect the worst straight away.

 

[MisterF]

Maybe you could share with Mods/Admin the name of the person in the JV who ripped off your friend, just so they can keep an eye on them and check the account.

This part kind of ties our hands too, in relation to opening a Shitlist.

I was on the phone to a friend today, he's asked me not to name him, but he was ripped off by a jv from BHW. He doesn't have an account and the deal was conducted away from BHW.

 

[Shyam007]

If people are "fucking idiots" don't they deserve to be taken advantage of?

You can't enforce common sense, can you?

 

[BassTrackerBoats]

If people are "fucking idiots" don't they deserve to be taken advantage of?

You can't enforce common sense, can you?

No they do not.

That is like saying someone who has a diminished capacity doesn't deserve the same respect as someone who is whole.

 

[Shyam007]

No they do not.

That is like saying someone who has a diminished capacity doesn't deserve the same respect as someone who is whole.

If someone wants to jump in a well knowingly then what do you do?

 

[awesomewebsites]

If someone wants to jump in a well knowingly then what do you do?

Stop him.

 

[MisterF]

I am not sure about this to be honest. I had a JV previously, I am providing the ad accounts and the other person would provide a campaign that is profitable. I know this sound sketchy but this jv turns out very well as we are now making lots of money daily (I have never seen so much money in my life on a daily basis). That partner status is a newbie on BHW and I am expecting my first payout tomorrow. I had a couple of more senior members discussing about potential JV but most are not suitable at all.

I am not trying to say that all newbies on this forum can be trusted but my point is that we never know as someone might turn out trustwhorthy and the length or contribution on this forum should not be use as a sole indiicator of trustworthiness.

Nevertheless, I do agree to a certain extend one should not loan out his/her payment processor nor selling account unless you are in control of the product that you are selling or at least holding on to it.

Seriously, if people think we look at a JV thread then just add a post and click approve they are deluded.
Mods ask the OP questions to verify information, then decide after getting the replies.
These threads often have 5 or 6 or more deleted comments where details have been supplied as part of the process.
I spoke to @Kratos168 to ask further questions, before his thread went live, as he'll no doubt confirm.

I'd say 33% get rejected too, before anyone asks.

Maybe you could share with Mods/Admin the name of the person in the JV who ripped off your friend, just so they can keep an eye on them and check the account.

I'll have a look at this @kasher9 , just PM me the details.

 

[Shyam007]

Stop him.

Yeah and may be fall in the well with them.

 

[awesomewebsites]

Yeah and may be fall in the well with them.

Let me explain. Consider a child going to the well as he is not knowing the consequences. Will you stop him or let him go ? Now compare this with what OP said. What type of people will fall for scams like Share your PayPal account for some commission ? People who are not experienced with all this. Not everyone with a PayPal account is in IM, majority use it for purchases. If you see someone falling for such an offer, you should at least make them aware of consequences.

 

[kasher9]

Will do @MisterF, and yeah my friend's an idiot for taking the deal away from BHW without even having an account here. However, it's not uncommon to see situations like this. I honestly don't feel remorse for him, that's why I'm kind of reluctant to help him tbh.

Honestly I see this process happen way too often:

- mod takes time to approve the thread
- guy picks up some schmucks who don't do any vetting themselves
- shitlist is posted, wasting BHW resources and mod resources, and then blame the mods for not being tighter.

Such an unproductive use of time for mods, it's not fair on them.

People are idiots, some things just need to be clearly disallowed. But I'm an idiot too, so I'll leave it for the BHW team to decide whether my feedback is of any value.

 

[Degen]

If people are "fucking idiots" don't they deserve to be taken advantage of?

You can't enforce common sense, can you?

Everyone that enters a JV gets 'warned' by the approved mod. But sometimes people that want to succeed take a leap of faith. They will jump through all hoops, but that doesn't make them stupid they are just more committed than their partner. They shouldn't be punished for that. Even though sometime I read the shit list and think why..?

I agree with @kasher9 that 'paypal' account rent kind of JV should be stopped as there are enough providers here that offer it. You don't need a JV for that. (most newbies don't know about it).

Also if a person want to jump in a well the first question you ask is 'why?'

 

[BassTrackerBoats]

Will do 'll leave it for the BHW team to decide whether my feedback is of any value.

We do value your feedback and the time you took to offer your thoughts.

We typically vett those JV requests regarding PP and payments pretty hard but until/unless there is a rule change perhaps we'll do a more aggressive vetting.