You Are Certified?! - WHY!?

I believe an employer looks for a certified individual because those people are the ones who really enjoy what they do and it adds instant credibility and confidence from the perceived professional accomplishment.

Do you believe in Certification? If so, what Certifications do you have?

I made a list of some of the certifications I think are important for web professionals.

• Associate Computing Professional ( http://www.iccp.org/iccpnew/certification.html )
• Certified Data Processor (http://www.iccp.org/iccpnew/certification.html )
• Adobe Certifications: ( http://partners.adobe.com/public/ace/main.html )
• Microsoft MCTS Certifications: (http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcts.aspx#tab2 )
• W3 School Certifications : ( http://www.w3schools.com/cert/default.asp )
• WOW (http://webprofessionals.org/certification/ )
• CIW (http://www.ciwcertified.com/certifications/program.asp )

Do you agree or disagree with any of the above choices? Can you add to it?

Certification for black hatters = a shitload of cash.

edit: didn't realize that this was posted under whitehat. aha my bad

shadowpwner said:

Certification for black hatters = a shitload of cash.

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What's a shitload of cash?

kayzne said:

What's a shitload of cash?

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ONE MILLION DOLLARS!

To be honest i've worked with people who had no certification on any of that stuff but they did some really quality coding/graphics. To me as long as it's quality certification is just a piece of paper...Designs and codes should flow from the heart not come from a piece of paper.

But then again to the average person a certified indivual can charge more and they pay more because he or she is certified..It depend's on the individual's views. To me certification is nothing but just a piece of paper that says you can do something...But without you putting your heart into what you do that certification wont be worth shit.

kayzne said:

those people are the ones who really enjoy what they do

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No way. Not all the time.

All Cert means is they won't have to worry if you know what you say you know or not.

n8800 said:

To be honest i've worked with people who had no certification on any of that stuff but they did some really quality coding/graphics. To me as long as it's quality certification is just a piece of paper...Designs and codes should flow from the heart not come from a piece of paper.

But then again to the average person a certified indivual can charge more and they pay more because he or she is certified..It depend's on the individual's views. To me certification is nothing but just a piece of paper that says you can do something...But without you putting your heart into what you do that certification wont be worth shit.

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Thanks for your reply.

I agree with you, you really need to love what you do and when it comes to graphics; be inherently creative.

Sanitarium said:

No way. Not all the time.

All Cert means is they won't have to worry if you know what you say you know or not.

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Ah you could be right I'm sure there are a minority of certified people that hate their jobs lol.

I don't know. I've met geniuses who aren't certified and morons who are.

The proof is always in the work.

I currently hold 9 certifications.

3 hardcore Microsoft developer certifications.
The others are also code related to integration and CMS systems.

I don't care about certificates. If I have to employ someone, I give them some (for me) simple task that can be finished in three days max. If they provide me with solution, I rate their approach, style and communication with me.
There could be some certifications that are useful, but I simply don't belive in them (even tough I hold 6 pretty elite certificates).
Why was I certified? Previous emplyoeer paid that for me

minute80 said:

I don't care about certificates. If I have to employ someone, I give them some (for me) simple task that can be finished in three days max. If they provide me with solution, I rate their approach, style and communication with me.
There could be some certifications that are useful, but I simply don't belive in them (even tough I hold 6 pretty elite certificates).
Why was I certified? Previous emplyoeer paid that for me

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Which certificates do you hold and consider to be "elite"?

I have my MCTS for Windows Development + SQL (Just finishing off Web Development now) in C#. And personally i dont think i would hire anyone to do work for me without them. Even experienced individuals i may have second thoughts.

The thing is, when you teach yourself, or when you learn on the job. You learn a set way, and you only learn a subset of features. The MCTS qualifications, i think, make you a jack of all trades and give you a much broader view of developing in general. SQL for example has so many little things to do in it. And actually writing SQL statements is a very very small part of that, and yet i think alot of self taught "SQL Developers" Focus in on that.

I also have a bunch of networking qualifications like MCSA and CCNA, and i think they are a good indication of someones ability to learn. MCSA for example you have to sit your arse through 4 exams (from memory). Which is far more then any other qualification, so if you can sit through those, you can prob sit there boring work i give you.

How important is this stuff for joe blow who just wants to make money in their spare time, and not necessarily a career replacement?

I don't want to disclose them, since there are really just a few people who have them and listing them could lead to revealing my identity (idea I am not very fond of).
I can just say that they were very expensive (round 4k each and you must meet certain requirements to be eligible to participate) and they have nothing to do with IM.
They are related to Linux, exotic hardware and programming.

kayzne said:

Which certificates do you hold and consider to be "elite"?

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I hold several IT and IM related certifications (most recently Google Adwords & Analytics certs). Every single time I've gained a new cert I've picked up a ton of working knowledge along the way. That's why I go after them, and that's why I recommend them. Use them as a learning experience.

coming from the perspective of a developer who has been the point person for hiring developers at a technology company, i don't put too much stock in to education or certifications.

i do not have a college degree, or any certs myself, so while i do make note of the education and cert level of a potential applicant i look more at experience and past work history. then i have lists of technical questions for the interview that i run through. after i have finished those, i like to give some simple programming tests and take the time to just talk to the applicant about development. my interviews usually last about 3 hours, and they're pretty intense and at times brutal but when the interview is over i usually have a very good feeling about the depth and breadth of the potential employee's skill.

in many cases i have found that people with an average level of education and a couple certs are actually pretty poor developers. just because you took the time to memorize technical definitions doesn't mean that you have any idea how to apply them.

what it boils down to is that i tend to look more for a mindset and an attitude more than someone who can recite the MSDN library verbatim. technical skills can always be learned, but it's harder to instill a good problem solving process in to someone.

and in the case of certs like the MCAD, MCSE, etc... all that really shows is that you memorized a bunch of definitions and were willing to plop down $600 per test.

smack said:

in many cases i have found that people with an average level of education and a couple certs are actually pretty poor developers. just because you took the time to memorize technical definitions doesn't mean that you have any idea how to apply them.

what it boils down to is that i tend to look more for a mindset and an attitude more than someone who can recite the MSDN library verbatim. technical skills can always be learned, but it's harder to instill a good problem solving process in to someone.

and in the case of certs like the MCAD, MCSE, etc... all that really shows is that you memorized a bunch of definitions and were willing to plop down $600 per test.

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Not busting your balls here, but have you sat the exams? MCSE + MCSA are nothing like memorizing definitions. For starters EVERY question within the MCSA exam is case study, So basically something like :

"You work for a microsoft.com, they have 100 workstations running XP, and 50 running windows 2000, they have a DHCP server located on such and such subnet, and then ...."

Etc. They are nothing like "Tell me what a DHCP server is" or "What does installing from PXE mean". They are really deep and thorough questions, and you most certainly have to know your stuff.

Certs are a BH way for companies to earn money out of individuals.

pyronaut said:

Not busting your balls here, but have you sat the exams? MCSE + MCSA are nothing like memorizing definitions. For starters EVERY question within the MCSA exam is case study, So basically something like :

"You work for a microsoft.com, they have 100 workstations running XP, and 50 running windows 2000, they have a DHCP server located on such and such subnet, and then ...."

Etc. They are nothing like "Tell me what a DHCP server is" or "What does installing from PXE mean". They are really deep and thorough questions, and you most certainly have to know your stuff.

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yeah, i have. i got all the transcender prep materials about a year ago and ran through all the practice tests and study materials. i was thinking of getting a few of the certs until i saw the price of the exams.

- edit - i can't speak for the networking or other exams, but the ones for developers left me rather under whelmed.