Vegetarians

привет;4651765 said:

A raw vegan food diet will ...

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Eating a raw vegan diet is a calorie paradox. You are unable with the human digestive tract to extract sufficient calories from this diet to maintain a healthy body weight. It is too adapted through evolution to eating a cooked omnivorous diet to be able to cope with this type of food intake. I remember a documentary on Australian TV a while back on a converted vegan. She was always sick while on this diet so she personally contacted a number of well known vegan authors. They admitted off the record that they CHEATED regularly to stay healthy. As soon as she started eating meat again she felt healthy.

Btw. here is one funny picture about this topic

Black.Star said:

No offense Shaddelicks. But I answered the question over and over again now. Comparing me to a bully would be like saying the Lion or the Polar Bear are bullys just because they are killing Gazelles or Pinnipeds... We just both have different concepts of Nature and "Power".

Noone gives a shit about being a bully when it comes to surviving.
For you animals are people/Humans(Now I finally know where you come from, hehe),
For me people/Huamns are animals.

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Like I have said before in this thread, I have nothing against non-vegetarians and meat eating. I only have a problem when you turn into a cold-blooded killer. Killing another animal just coz you can and you are more powerful than it is stupid and cold-blooded. But killing another animal for food is an entirely different matter. I understand this is how the food chain works but then you can also show some gratitude to the poor thing that lost its life so you can have food, can you not? Don't be a heartless "ha, i killed you, you puny animal" kind of guy. Thank the animal for putting food on your plate and then enjoy your food. Have some respect.

Also, if humans are also animals and animals killing animals is how evolution works then we should legalize murder for money etc. right? I mean the stronger human kills the weaker one and takes his money. Survival of the fittest. Evolution. This is how nature works etc.

Somewhere on the net I have read that US government is planning to create artificial meat. If it is correct then it won't hurt anything.

Although I'm pure veg since my birth.

How do you find a vegetarian at a dinner party?.....don't worry, they will let you know

jazzc said:

The question is silly - First of all you don't love all animals on the planet, you love the ones you know and care about (your dog). Ask him back, "if he loves people, why doesn't he work in Africa helping children?"

Then, it 's nature. If humans weren't supposed to eat meat, they 'd have the digestive system of a sheep.

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Our digestive system is almost the same as that of monkeys and apes. Now what do they eat? Mostly green leafs, fruits and vegetables. Some of them also eat small amounts of meat from insects and at times their own baby infants.

We don?t have the digestive system of meat eaters, such as tigers. If you really are a meat eater then go outside catch a squirrel or other small animal with your hands, kill it and eat it raw and don?t forget to eat the bones, skin and fur too.

Humans in today?s world don?t need meat to live, it is a decision that we make.

Please get your facts right, apes and simians are omnivores. Omnivores have a different digestive system than that of herbivores and carnivores. Our digestive system is long and complex. It starts at the mouth and ends with the large intestine. This is to allow for the efficient absorption of nutrients from both vegetables and meat.

Herbivores on the other hand have a specialized digestion system with 4 chambered stomachs. They also have flora and fauna in their
digestive tracts to break down cellulose in plant fibres, without these they will become flatulent and die. Our digestive system has only a single
chambered stomach with no flora or fauna to break down plant cellulose. The fibres in our food only helps for easing bowel movements and avoiding constipation.

Carnivores on the other hand have a very simple digestive system that can break down complex proteins, ligaments, bones and even harmful microbes that are found in rotting meat. Their system digests protien very fast and makes it available for absorption.

Do not say humans in todays world do not need meat to live, you can not generalize living conditions across the world based on the quality of life in few first world countries. First world citizens can afford to choose and have food fads the rest of the world does not have it this easy.

hekasis said:

Our digestive system is almost the same as that of monkeys and apes. Now what do they eat? Mostly green leafs, fruits and vegetables. Some of them also eat small amounts of meat from insects and at times their own baby infants.

We don't have the digestive system of meat eaters, such as tigers. If you really are a meat eater then go outside catch a squirrel or other small animal with your hands, kill it and eat it raw and don't forget to eat the bones, skin and fur too.

Humans in today's world don't need meat to live, it is a decision that we make.

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and actually, our digestive system is quite different than that of Gorillas. They have a very long digestive track, more similar to an herbivore. It's no surprise that they are mostly herbivores (they still eat bugs and stuff).

Our digestive track is very short in comparison, similar to that of the pig, a known omnivore.

Veganism is a choice, omnivore is the default.

Black.Star said:

I lived my whole life with animals and experienced a lot of births... But I also saw various animals and humans die. Killed and natural death. I accepted death as part of the Nature.

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It's not that simple buddy. It's always easy to accept death when it is someone else dying. But if it is a loved one or someone close to you, I'm sure you woundn't be so nonchalant about death. Eat meat coz you have to. It is absolutely fine with me. But when you do, remember to cry a little for the animal. Remember to have a soft corner. It is not healthy to be so nonchalant about death. It is this same carelessness that will also take us to destruction. We are already well on the path of destruction seeing as we cut down trees, emit poisonous gases etc. with no care in the world for mother nature.

Black.Star said:

Well, again. This is a false logical conclusion. First of all. Killing others of your species is something that only a few animals do.
Even fewer do it inside their group. Humans are not one of them and never were.

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Sorry, humans don't kill each other? We don't kill each other for food, yes. But for survival and a variety of other reasons, we certainly do. History is replete with stories to back me up. The only reason why murder isn't legal is not because we are programmed like that or that is our nature or any of that. It is because along with survival instincts we are also blessed with something that's called a sense of discretion. If you eat meat, it is not instinctive behavior as the other animals do like you say. But it with the clear knowledge of what you are doing, it's impact etc.

Again, I don't mean to say meat eating is wrong per se. But to say that you eat meat coz the lion eats deer is bad reasoning. The lion is instinctive. You are rational. There's a huge difference.

Black.Star said:

Humans are flexible. So flexible that we now live all over the world. We survived because of intelligence, not because of who is the better killer/fighter and has more muscles.

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You are simply strengthening my point here. It is our intelligence that has brought us from being cavemen. And we need to employ that same intelligence in our understanding of our relationship with the universe. It is not just survival of the fittest, evolution, predatory instincts, 'that is how nature works' etc. anymore. Such reasoning wont work.

bigman said:

It is our intelligence that has brought us from being cavemen. And we need to employ that same intelligence in our understanding of our relationship with the universe. It is not just survival of the fittest, evolution, predatory instincts, 'that is how nature works' etc. anymore. Such reasoning wont work.

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We owe our large brain to eating nutrient dense foods, like meat. We evolved to eat meat. Why would we stop, just because we are "rational" r "civilized" now. Eating what we evolved to eat is the most rational path.

wexzone said:

We owe our large brain to eating nutrient dense foods, like meat. We evolved to eat meat. Why would we stop, just because we are "rational" r "civilized" now. Eating what we evolved to eat is the most rational path.

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You didn't get my point. I am not against meat-eating. I'm against the rationale of man being an instinctive meat-eater like a lion or a tiger.

philipj said:

how do you find a vegetarian at a dinner party?.....don't worry, they will let you know

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lol!!

bigman said:

You didn't get my point. I am not against meat-eating. I'm against the rationale of man being an instinctive meat-eater like a lion or a tiger.

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So, what is your rationale? That we shouldn't eat a diet we evolved to, or what?

I've dated a vegetarian. Annoying taking her anywhere to eat tho. Worse part of it was she had a 1 yr old whom she was forcing to be vegetarian as well. I snuck the little guy pieces of meat when I could, but I still can't help but feel horrible for him when grows up. Little dudes going to get made fun of majorly for it in the cutthroat school systems around us.

Seems like a lot of people dont know what there talking about here. They just do a google search and spew out things they know nothing about. They are using old outdated arguments that can easily be responded to by doing another google search for the same results you found and find the response. The biggest problem i have with these ignorant comments is that many of you dont see that you are wrong. You actually believe the ignorance you are saying. Maybe you are young and inexperienced in life, so maybe there is some excuse for you, but if not, then you guys need to do some logical thinking. Also you guys need to learn about all the fallacies that you are bringing to the debate and learn how to debate based on real, consistent facts. like some of you will flat out say humans cant live without meat, when throughout the whole thread many people have proved otherwise by real life examples...

Anyway, things dont have to be so complicated. Very logical if one wants to really use there thought process instead of thinking about there agenda only. But here is a very simple vid. Simple, to the point, a good starter vid for those who dont have an idea about the health side of being a vegan(most all of you)

shaddelick said:

Seems like a lot of people dont know what there talking about here. They just do a google search and spew out things they know nothing about.

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yeah, I know the feeling...

The biggest problem i have with these ignorant comments is that many of you dont see that you are wrong.

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spoken like a true cultist...

then you guys need to do some logical thinking

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what, like eat what we evolved to eat? that kind of logic? or are you talking about your logic: eat like a cow?

Also you guys need to learn about all the fallacies that you are bringing to the debate and learn how to debate based on real, consistent facts.

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I have yet to see you present any facts. It's all about "sentient beings" and what you think animals "feel" and "think" and other nonsense like that. Hell, you were even talking about "rights"! Ha! You present a fact, and we'll debate it. Until then, we'll call your nonsense for what it is.

like some of you will flat out say humans cant live without meat, when throughout the whole thread many people have proved otherwise by real life examples...

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no one has said that. what we are saying is surviving vs thriving. the vast majority of humans thrive with eating meat. Are there some people that thrive without meat? yes. are they even close to the majority? no.

The fact remains that the number 1 reason people quit veganism is because of HEALTH.

Again, I pose these questions to you:
Why are there no vegan civilizations? Why are there no long-term vegan cultures? Why do vegan parents average lower birth weights than their contemporary counterparts? Why do vegans exhibit higher rates of mental illness? Why do vegans exhibit increases in tooth decay?

that doesn't sound healthy to me.

while you munch on your veggie burger that resulted in billions of animals being killed so you could enjoy your GM soy, I'm eating Italian braised rabbit for dinner. Number of animals deaths in my dinner: 1. Number in yours: 1,000,000,000+ There's a fact to chew on.

wexzone said:

yeah, I know the feeling...

spoken like a true cultist...

what, like eat what we evolved to eat? that kind of logic? or are you talking about your logic: eat like a cow?

I have yet to see you present any facts. It's all about "sentient beings" and what you think animals "feel" and "think" and other nonsense like that. Hell, you were even talking about "rights"! Ha! You present a fact, and we'll debate it. Until then, we'll call your nonsense for what it is.

no one has said that. what we are saying is surviving vs thriving. the vast majority of humans thrive with eating meat. Are there some people that thrive without meat? yes. are they even close to the majority? no.

The fact remains that the number 1 reason people quit veganism is because of HEALTH.

Again, I pose these questions to you:
Why are there no vegan civilizations? Why are there no long-term vegan cultures? Why do vegan parents average lower birth weights than their contemporary counterparts? Why do vegans exhibit higher rates of mental illness? Why do vegans exhibit increases in tooth decay?

that doesn't sound healthy to me.

while you munch on your veggie burger that resulted in billions of animals being killed so you could enjoy your GM soy, I'm eating Italian braised rabbit for dinner. Number of animals deaths in my dinner: 1. Number in yours: 1,000,000,000+ There's a fact to chew on.

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Wow, I dont think you know what your talking about. I dont know where to start, in fact i wont even address any of this. There is not one accurate statement in anything you just said, not one. You must be googling some anti vegan sites that are not based on any kind of facts. You can easily find that all the stuff you just wrote is completely wrong by doing another google search for those finds. You are trying to make things complicated, and in doing so, you are digging up a lot of un truths. Do yourself a favor and keep it simple, find out the truth before you blurb out things.