Vegetarians

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Can't oppose facts against beliefs, but whatever. You can get enough protein precursors (enzymes) from a very specific vegetarian diet, yes. Is that optimal? NO. You can be a scrawny and healthy fragile person, or a healthy, full-potential attained, strong person. Vegetarians have a plethora of problems of their own, I already mentioned one. "Oh my god, why do I have receding gums, if I'm so healthy?". "He was so healthy, why the sudden cardiac arrest?". "Oh my god, why does my [skin look and feel like cardboard | my hair look like dry hay] if I'm barely 34 yo" (lack of good proteins to keep a healthy structure that's why). I don't like to disclose much personal info, suffice to say I know first hand about these very real ailments of the super healthy vegetarians. So much that they're a very very starving crowd when said problems arise (hints for good marketers that are niche hunters). You can choose an unnatural, ill path (biologically speaking) if it fits your quest to transcend your human condition. Just don't call it natural, because it's not.
 
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The vegans i know do not have receding gums or any other problems. They are not weak or frail. And not all vegans are healthy like i said in my other posts, there are foods that are vegan that are not healthy. But eating whole foods from organic plants then you will become healthier then any other diet. You want to believe that everyone that doesnt eat meat is not healthy when that is not true at all. You will pick out cases where people that get and claim to be vegan, but i bet i can spot the short comings of what was wrong not being just because they were vegan in each case you know of. But you wont see the overwhelming majority of others who are in wurst conditions directly linked to there meat eating habits. Like someone said earlier, people will always make excuses to eat meat
 
shaddelick said:
Like someone said earlier, people will always make excuses to eat meat
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Would you believe it never passed my mind to apologize to any random lad about what I eat? :D

Saying that people find excuses to eat meat, presupposes that eating meat is bad. Which might suit you fine of course, but it tends to be self-righteous and personally, self-righteousness gives me a bad taste - like broccoli :D
 
I won't argue anymore. I'm not asking if you believe me. I'm telling you how it is. Same as people that eat a lot of salty food and end up with gastric cancer. However they want to support their habits with beliefs, it won't help once reality bites. If I'm telling you about this, and I'm even letting you know of specific problems that of course won't be proudly displayed, but will be nonetheless "monetized" by solution providers, it doesn't require your beliefs to change, but doesn't make it lies either. Just as nobody knows people that need blue pills, yet they're sold by the ton. We even get to be spammed with offers for it, while it doesn't appear to be a problem of anyone we know.

People wanted the earth to be the center of the universe. But it was not. You want humans to be vegetarians, but they are not. But you have no health or biochemistry degree (and I even know some of them that after all the knowledge they've acquired, still have such cognitive dissonances), so you can pretend that facts and knowledge about how our human bodies work and process nutrients don't exist, or are magically influenced by your beliefs. Humans are very resilient animals. They are omnivores. They can adapt to non-optimal environments and feed on what they have at hand, that's why they have thrived over this planet's surface. Yet the optimal diet is a balanced one that includes animal protein, not as the predominant component, mind you, but ideally it has to be there.

This should be enough of a dissertation. I don't think you'll want to know -ie. read scientific (medical, anthropological, ethological) literature, studies, etc. aka facts-, nor will I read vegetarian it's-true-because-we-believe-it books. Unfortunately, and ultimately, reality has no middle ground.
 
Im a reverse vegetarian aka exclusively a carnivore. According to the common school of thought among the vegan/veg crowd is that i should be the first to die. My sister is a vegetarian and she is part of the holier than thou club and always says things like "well at least im not gonna die from heart disease like you" even though she smokes and drinks like a maniac. That pretty much sums up my average encounter with a vegetarian.
 
I don't agree. I'm not in the mood to present my arguments but will give you one single pointer - Shaolin monks and especially students are 100% vegetarian yet they train heavily since dawn to dawn. Does it mean it will work the same for a normal person? Probably not as Shaolin monks also have an extremely healthy lifestyle, clean air, water, natural food, they meditate, are spiritual, etc. However they are proof you can be very healthy just being vegetarian as long as you also take care of other aspects in your life. Otherwise you are very likely to need a certain amount of animal food to get what you need for your diet.

also, to take this to an extreme there are people in the world (only heard of 2 that are currently alive, one from australia I think) that live exclusively on Prana (vital subtle energy) for years. In other words, they don't eat and don't drink anything, they take all the energy they need through they very open/developed chakras directly from the universe. Obviously there are a lot more those who would like to think they do that but actually don't and there are cases where people died while kidding themselves about this.
 
jazzc said:
Would you believe it never passed my mind to apologize to any random lad about what I eat? :D

Saying that people find excuses to eat meat, presupposes that eating meat is bad. Which might suit you fine of course, but it tends to be self-righteous and personally, self-righteousness gives me a bad taste - like broccoli :D
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Yes it is bad. It harms and kills innocent sentient beings . Nothing self righteous about helping the little guy that cant speak up for themselves
 
proffit said:
Eskimos eat mostly all meat. They don't have too many plants.

People around the world adapt and eat what their environment offers.
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Are you saying an Eskimo cannot be a vegetarian in his environment even if he wanted to? If so, then you are wrong, it is possible even in the artic to be vegetarian if one wanted to. With different innovations such as a green house someone can grow vegestables. And there are some vegestables that grow out in the artic, though not much.

Eskimos make up a small fraction of humanity. I am surprised some people actually find this statement smart. To me its just an example of people finding excuses to validate the eating of meat. Its cherry picking whatever you can find. I dont know if you follow Eskimo lifestyle, but i dont because they are not that advanced. I think the topic of enslaving and killing other sentient life like ourselves is a big topic that needs to be addressed. I think the point here should be as moral beings, we should consider extending our kindness to all sorts of sentient beings, and do as we would like to be done to us.
 
the entire food system is f*cked

do some homework and you'll probably start a garden and perhaps hunting, or atleast wanting to get to know your local farmers and co-op

As a species we started eating meat many millenia ago, in the last 100 years we started eating mostly empty calories (as in [almost] no absorb-able nutrition outside of raw calories and toxic fats) based largely on genetic experiments, easy to grow grains, and growing animals in factories...

no offense but the last steak you ate probably came from a cow that never saw sunlight in it's life while being pumped full of various hormones to increase how much it weighs and keep it alive since the last couple months she was probably fed corn which causes some real weight gain very quickly, but also causes bacterial infection without fail, so add in some anti-bacterial injections (vs feeding grass which eliminates 90% of that in a week) and once she's made it through bovine university and been chopped up spray the meat with some more anti-bacterial stuff (derivatives of ammonia, sometimes the hydrogen peroxide + vinegar mix which is better than bleach for sterilization)

anyway I'm off an ranting, do some home work and make a decision from there

yes, I'm a vegetarian and have been for years, learned that is what leads me to feel the best when being careful about combining foods to ensure I get adequate complete proteins, fat soluble vitamins, trace minerals, etc...

but make a decision for you, what makes you feel great and ready to tackle anything with great clarity of thought and abundant energy?
don't know yet? please do some homework on your food supply and personal nutritional needs

eat what you want, but do so consciously

don't just swallow the idea that only meat can provide you with protein, or that vegetarians are the high holy of the world
 
My friend was a vegetarian from ages 9-17. I was completely fine with it but my Dad was an absolute dick about the whole thing. He'd make her something which any reasonable person would know wasn't suitable, then huff and puff when she politely informed him. Then it got to the point where making her a cup of tea he'd ask " Is THIS suitable? :rolleyes: " making her feel terrible.

I had to sit the man down at the age of 17 and give him a serious lesson in manners and an insight into why people decide to become Vegetarians. It shut him up promptly. He'd never heard me be so direct and adult.

Too bad she went back to eating meat about 1 month after the talk! lmao

I couldnt go without my meat but I am aware of how the animals are killed and its horrible. I have excellent will power but losing out on chicken and beef for me isnt an option.

But kudos to those of you who live by this and are healthy and happy. Stand by what you believe in.
 
In Jainism I have read following on Non-violence.

[h=4]Non-violence (Ahimsa):[/h]
Among these five vows, non-violence (Ahimsa) is the cardinal principle of Jainism and hence it is known as the cornerstone of Jainism. Non-violence is the supreme religion (Ahimsa parmo dharma). It is repeatedly said in Jain literature; "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being."
According to Jainism all living beings, irrespective of their size, shape, or different spiritual developments are equal. No living being has a right to harm, injure, or kill any other living being, including animals, insects, and plants. Every living being has a right to exist and it is necessary to live with every other living being in perfect harmony and peace.
Nonviolence in Jainism is not a negative virtue. It is based upon the positive quality of universal love and compassion. One who is actuated by this ideal cannot be indifferent to the suffering of others.
Violence of every type should be completely forbidden. Mental tortures by way of harsh words, actions, and any type of bodily injuries should also be avoided. Even thinking evil of some one is considered violence in Jainism.
Practically, it is impossible to survive without killing or injuring some of the smallest living beings. Some lives are killed even when we breathe, drink water, or eat food. Therefore, Jainism says that minimum killing of the lowest form of life should be our ideal for survival.
In the universe, there are different forms of life, such as, human beings, animals, insects, plants, bacteria, and even smaller lives, which cannot be seen even through the most powerful microscopes. Jainism has classified all the living beings according to their senses.
The five senses are touch, taste, smell, sight, and hearing.

  • Living being with five senses - humans, animals, birds, heavenly and hellish beings
  • Living being with four senses - flies, bees, etc.
  • Living being with three senses- ants, lice, etc.
  • Living being with two senses - worms, leaches, etc.
  • Living being with one sense - plants, water, air, earth, fire etc.
It is more painful if a life of the higher forms (more than one sense) is killed. Hence Jainism allows laypeople to use only vegetables as a food for survival. All non-vegetarian food is made by killing a living being with two or more senses. Therefore, Jainism preaches strict vegetarianism, and prohibits non-vegetarian foods.
Jainism explains that violence is not defined by actual harm, for this may be unintentional. It is the intention to harm, the absence of compassion, unawareness, and the ignorance that makes an action violent. Without violent thought there can be no violent actions. Non-violence is to be observed in action, speech, and thought. One should not be violent, ask others to do so, or approve of such an activity.


I think This might be useful !
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"As is the food, so is the mind"
A vegan diet makes your thoughts and mind pure (thats my personal experience)
Now this is a very subjective topic, everyone has his/her own opinion about this, but in my humble opinion my stomach is not a graveyard for dead animals

Whatever may be the reason, Cruelty towards animals can not be justified
 
Black.Star said:
Well for me humans are animals aswell.
And as a hungry animal I think food is a really good reason to justify killing.
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The statement he made was in accordance to the prior statents which maybe you didnt read since it covered exactly what you are saying.

Let me ask, since humans are animals(which we all agree) is it ok to eat other humans(not talking about extreme conditions)? I think humans and animals have a difference in morality dont you think?
 
shaddelick said:
Let me ask, since humans are animals(which we all agree) is it ok to eat other humans(not talking about extreme conditions)? I think humans and animals have a difference in morality dont you think?
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Morality is a subjective term. We are all free to define our values and shape our thoughts. So, for you, eating meat may be a grotesque act of vandalism. For me, it may be enjoyable. See, everyone 's happy with their own version of the world :)
 
I'm a big meat eater but I do make an effort to get the highest quality meat possible that is not treated with hormones, chemicals, and from animals that were not mistreated in any way. I usually buy buffalo meat straight from this ranch about a half hour drive from where I live. It's more expensive but it tastes so much better than crappy factory-farmed beef you get at the supermarket. I still get turkey and pork from the store, but I

The "holier than thou" attitude of vegans/vegetarians does piss me off, though. I dated this girl once who was always going on and on about how eating meat was so terrible for you, yet her diet consisted mostly of pizza without meat. She was constantly sick and tired, and I'm not saying eating meat would cure all her ills, but I can't help but think that her diet had something to do with it.

I think there are four kinds of diets:

- Healthy meat eating - fresh, high quality, natural meat with plenty of vegetables and wholegrain carbs
- Unhealty meat eating - Fast food, pizza, soda, junk food, etc.
- Healthy vegetarian - Gets protein from tofu, beans, natural dairy products (if not vegan) Plenty of vegetables and wholegrain carbs.
- Unhealthy vegetarian - Fast food and pizza, minus meat. A lot of prepackaged junk food and soda.

I've met a lot of unhealthy vegetarian/vegans who think they're healthy just because they don't eat meat, and they say I'M unhealthy because I eat meat, even though 1) I get mostly natural meat from humanely treated animals, 2) I eat more vegetables than most vegetarians, and 3) I exercise like a madman for at least half an hour every single day, no exceptions. They always say that Americans (and increasingly the rest of the world) are overweight because they eat meat.

You don't get overweight from eating meat, you get overweight from eating too much of everything entirely, and eating foods of poor quality.
 
How do you know plants don't have feelings? It is said that the food you eat don't have feelings. It all depends on what your perspective is I guess. I'm having chicken for dinner. Though I prolly would have been a full vegetarian by now if it wasn't for personal reasons, but, those reasons have nothing to do with not wanting to kill a fish or chicken. Why there is a large number of vegans that stigmatize the eating of flesh is astonishing. Why can't you just want to be a vegan because you think it would make you more lighter, energetic or something. Why does it has to be attached to some harming animals stuff?
 
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