Vegetarians

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"If a group of beings from another planet were to land on Earth -- beings who considered themselves as superior to you as you feel yourself to be to other animals -- would you concede them the rights over you that you assume over other animals?"

George Bernard Shaw, playwright, Nobel Prize 1925
Do you know why humans are at the top of the food chain?

Because, we improvise, do not give up , fight back even when everything is lost and are mad enough to have "mutually assured destruction" as national policy. If a race of carnivorous, human eating race of super beings lands on the planet , I am quite sure that we will fight back and get killed in the process. Humans do not give up their rights so willingly. It will than be a matter of the survival of the fittest.

If we can not defeat them than entire humanity will perish but until than I will continue eating both vegetables and meat the nature provides.
 
There's a difference between flying a plane into a building and eating a chicken sandwich, is there not? Please show me where I endorse animals being treated like shit

Killing someone and there family and friends isnt treating them like shit?
 
I think the worst part of this thread is how the veg*ns keep putting animals and humans on the same moral playing field. The idea you'd compare the life of an animal to the life of a human is completely insane and disturbing. Yes, I'm saying humans are more important than animals, any animal. I'd rather an entire species of obnoxious birds go extinct than one child die of cancer.

And all this talk about veg*n diets cure/help with cancer, that red meat is bad, etc do you have an actual peer reviewed clinical study that proves that? No you don't, because none actually exist. Essentially all anti-meat studies are based on observation alone, and as we recall observation alone isn't good science, because hell, the Earth looks flat, it certainly must be.

Red meat is bad? Prove it.
Veg*nism is better for you? Prove it.

Real studies, not BS science based on what people think they see.

Humans have had fire for nearly 750,000 years, and prior to the rise of agriculture we spent roughly 1.2 million years hunting and eating meat. Our brains developed from that fat on that meat, we've created tools for hunting all that time as well. Sure, veg*n propaganda will you believe that Sub-Saharan Africa was populated with plentiful fruit trees and soybean plants, but that's not reality. So either nature is stupid and what we lived in while evolving into modern humans is extremely dangerous for us, or it's actually not bad for us.

The issue here is that people who eat a lot of meat and saturated fat also tend to eat a lot of sugary things and carbohydrates, but it's always the meat that's blamed for their bad diet. It never seems to occur to most people that maybe it's the sugar and carbohydrates. Speaking of cancer, 90% of it feeds on glucose, if you're eating all fatty meat your body runs on ketones, making it harder for cancer to replicate.

If you want to be veg*n, that's fine, but don't sell us short and think that we can't look things up and do research. Don't equate humans and animals, they're not the same, animals are stupid, humans aren't. When a cow reads a newspaper or contributes to existential thought, give me a PM. I don't think animals should suffer, and that's what makes me better than animals. My cat literally tortures bugs and mice for fun, and if it came to it, I'd eat her too if I had to.

Side thought: why is it veg*ns claim to be a part of nature, but demand to be above it by ignoring evolutionary science and eating animals? Such as when some feeds their own dogs and cats (which are carnivores) plant food and claim moral high ground. Either humans are animals or we're not. If we're not, then the moral points don't matter, if we are, then we can get away with killing animals for food, other animals do.
 
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Killing someone and there family and friends isnt treating them like sht?

If you care about nature so much, why destroy thousands of years of top soil with farming? Free range animals don't destroy top soil, they help make it better. Or what about the small animals killed by threshers and other farm equipment, is that not the same as September 11th too? If animals are the same as people, then every time a tractor runs over rabbit, it's the same as a suicide bomber blowing himself up in a cafe. Only someone completely detached from reality, someone who hates humanity could believe something like that.
 
There's a difference between flying a plane into a building and eating a chicken sandwich, is there not? Please show me where I endorse animals being treated like shit.

If I've interpreted your post right, you're basically comparing me to a terrorist because I express openly that I enjoy eating meat?

1) Enjoy your chicken sandwich. I have no problem with that. Honestly, I don't. But understand that the poor animal has given up it's life - that single most important thing for every living creature on this planet. So thank it and fill your heart with gratitude and then enjoy your sandwich. Not with a "you deserve to die, you puny little nothing" attitude. That attitude is what sucks. I have no problem with you being non-vegetarian.

2) You just said "Animals exist to be eaten, no exceptions." and you want me to point out where you endorse them being treated like shit? Come on man.

3) You obviously interpreted my post wrong. I have no problem with you enjoying meat. Please read my other post.

What I'm basically saying is that animals don't exist to be eaten but are being gracious and are doing us a great great favour by giving up their lives to satisfy our bellies and taste buds.
 
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Side thought: why is it veg*ns claim to be a part of nature, but demand to be above it by ignoring evolutionary science and eating animals? Such as when some feeds their own dogs and cats (which are carnivores) plant food and claim moral high ground. Either humans are animals or we're not. If we're not, then the moral points don't matter, if we are, then we can get away with killing animals for food, other animals do.

I used to work on a farm. You'd be amazed at how many grasshoppers and other small creatures end up in the grain bins... if the grain went through a grain dryer, they are crispy. But whatever, they all end up mixed together with the grain and trucked out to the mills.
 
2) You just said "Animals exist to be eaten, no exceptions." and you want me to point out where you endorse them being treated like shit? Come on man.

What you must be trying to say then is that by eating animals I endorse treating them like shit.

I hate cruelty to animals, it disgusts me at the treatment they get in some slaughterhouses, that's why I go out of my way to buy free ranged food. That being said, it still doesn't change my viewpoint.
 
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привет;4655431 said:
Oh too lazy to research on your own? I'll do it for you just because I want people to see their own ignorance.

gerson.0RG/gerpress/the-gerson-therapy/

Derp derp.

Linking to the source of the hypothesis doesn't make your point valid, it's like me writing on my blog "The sky is actually Pink" and starting a post on BHW saying the same thing with my blog as the source. Please show me some evidence of Gerson therapy working (Not anecdotes, a medical study) because within 2 minutes of research I have found the following:

How Gerson therapists believe it work

Gerson therapists believe that people with cancer have too much salt (sodium) in their bodies compared to the amount of potassium. They think that eating large quantities of fruit and vegetables will restore the right balance and cleanse the liver. This would allow the liver to rid the body of cancer cells. There is no medical research to support any claims that this therapy can prevent, treat or cure cancer. In fact Gerson therapy can have some serious side effects and is potentially very harmful.

Code:
[URL]http://cancerhelp.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/treatment/complementary-alternative/therapies/gerson-therapy[/URL]

Max Gerson (October 18, 1881 ? March 8, 1959) was a German physician who developed the Gerson Therapy, an alternative dietary therapy, which he claimed could cure cancer and most chronic, degenerative diseases. Gerson described his approach in the book A Cancer Therapy: Results of 50 Cases. However, when Gerson's claims were examined by the National Cancer Institute (NCI), they found that his records lacked the basic information necessary to systematically evaluate his claims. The NCI concluded that his data showed no benefit from his treatment.[1] The therapy is scientifically unsupported and potentially hazardous.[2][3]

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[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Gerson[/URL]


I'm not saying that Gerson therapy cannot work, but it would seem that it is the faith that a patient places in it the therapy that gets them through, not the therapy itself. There appears to only be anecdotal evidence of Gerson therapy working. I would ask that you reconsider your perspective of Gerson therapy, I would hate for someone to suffer needlessly because they have been misinformed by someone that cares about them (IE; If you know someone who is suffering from cancer, then do suggest it, but make sure that the patient understands the risks and knows that there is no scientific evidence to back it up).

On a different tangent, the way that Vegan's/Veggies's put animals on a pedestal does make me laugh. Do you think animal's don't hunt each other? Do you think a lion would have a moral crisis before attacking me or you? Nah, she'd just rip us to pieces!
 
"If a group of beings from another planet were to land on Earth -- beings who considered themselves as superior to you as you feel yourself to be to other animals -- would you concede them the rights over you that you assume over other animals?"

George Bernard Shaw, playwright, Nobel Prize 1925

Moot question. Concede or not, we 'd be eaten, or else we wouldn't have been inferior species. How many times did you ask a pig if it conceded to your stake? :D
 
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Now do you see why I have problems with zealous vegans. Your attitude suggests that vegans are the wise and noble whereas meat eaters are evil, dumb and slave of corporations.

Eating raw meat cures cancer ? What the actual fcuk? Raw meat will kill you, humans can hardly digest raw meat. Have you heard about salmonella? Humans can not digest raw plant matter too since our digestive system can not break down cellulose.

I did not get the impression that he/she suggested anywhere that vegans were wise and noble. The post was just stating a fact about being healthy. Also the post speaks of a raw vegan diet and does not suggest anyone should eat raw meat. Thinking you may have just skimmed it and misunderstood.
 
well I'm a vegetarian myself and I like being a Veg very much :) . No offence to my non-veg friends, but people always find excuses for eating meat. they say it'll cause an ecological imbalance if they don't eat meat but do they know that all of this imbalance is just because of HUMANS. well what should they do, start slaughtering humans then???
I don't care what you all do-eat meat or don't, but listen to your heart once in a while :)
 
Now do you see why I have problems with zealous vegans. Your attitude suggests that vegans are the wise and noble whereas meat eaters are evil, dumb and slave of corporations.

Eating raw meat cures cancer ? What the actual fcuk? Raw meat will kill you, humans can hardly digest raw meat. Have you heard about salmonella? Humans can not digest raw plant matter too since our digestive system can not break down cellulose.

He said a raw food diet, which generally consists of no meat, and all uncooked foods... Just saying. If you're going to get all hostile about vegetarians-and-like-diets, you might as well better inform yourself.
 
 
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Secondly, humans do not need to eat meat to survive. I know many vegetarians/vegans that have stayed away from animal product and has been in extremely good health for decades. Humans are not carnivars, i argue that we are not even omnivores, but humans are herbivores by nature. Humans are apes by definition. Apes do not need meat to survive, but we eat it anyway. Our bodies closely resembles herbivores and not carnivores.

There's no such thing as "Us humans" vs "them animals". Humans ARE animals pretending to be something else. If you want to see what your body is designed to eat, just take a look at your digestive system. We don't digest plant's main protein, cellulose, but we can use vitamins and fiber (and other nutrients from them), nor we have a mouth filled with funny looking teeth like deers or cows, but we don't have all pointy teeth like carnivOres do either. We have a mix, meaning we are designed (if you "believe") or evolved (if you're predominantly rational-inclined) to eat a variety of food to have a decent nutrition. Don't take my word for it, just study a bit of human metabolism. BTW, you can feed your body a lot of bad/non-optimal things and it'll try to change some metabolic pathways to cope, but that doesn't make it healthy -ie. alcoholics' metabolism is skewed towards alcohol so much, that after a drinking binge eating 'normal' food actually damages their livers (and puts their pancreas at risk too). That's why a vegetarian will feel bad if he tries to eat meat. Okay, this is the part about it being natural. It's not. We're a different species of ape, but not bonobos or gorillas, same as most bats eat fruit, but a few need blood and you wouldn't try to feed them apples, because that'd be cruel (and would also kill it).

I am seeing so many misconceptions here about how humans need meat, or how early man ate meat and how not eating meat is not healthy.... not true. But If someone would think about how it might be immoral to mistreat another sentient life, i would ask you to at least think of that, and approach a delicate topic like this with some consideration

There isn't really much to debate, really. I like (other) animals, but I won't keep tigers from eating other animals ALIVE (how cruel!) and feed them carrots instead. Or maybe sharks or fish, that also eat other animals alive (where's the compassion?). As to the "we're suppossed to blah blah", we're not suppossed to be higher than other animals, that's a human distorted self-conception. Would you feed an evil lion carrots because you know better?. No. What's really really wrong is human's irresponsible over populating and consuming of resources. That alone leads to unnatural systems to procure food, like those horrible [chicken|cow|pig|whatever] breeding farms, or the highly processed "food" products most people love to eat.

It's OK if you want to believe things, but you cannot make them real just because you do. Just because I want to believe that eating rocks is healthy and natural and it's the true nature of my digestive system, doesn't mean it'll work out in the end. BTW, I have vegetarian relatives. They're "healthy", except they don't look so healthy compared to my healthy relatives that eat a balanced diet, and no artificial stuff like processed sugars and flours (yes, those things aren't natural, we're not made to eat them), but if you put them side by side with my overweight/unhealthy relatives, then yes, they look healthier, even though most of them have receding gums (a common vegetarian's ailment, from malnutrition). By the way, I love sweets and pies and all that stuff, and a part of me wants to believe that it's ok to eat that. Except it's not, and I KNOW it, therefore I seldom eat a portion of that and it tastes like glory (but it's neither natural or nutritious or healthy).
 
"If a group of beings from another planet were to land on Earth -- beings who considered themselves as superior to you as you feel yourself to be to other animals -- would you concede them the rights over you that you assume over other animals?"

George Bernard Shaw, playwright, Nobel Prize 1925

Ofcourse I/we wouldn't. But it's not like they would ask us anyway. It's the way nature works, does zebra wants to be eaten, and does lion ask it when he hunts them?
 
There's no such thing as "Us humans" vs "them animals". Humans ARE animals pretending to be something else. If you want to see what your body is designed to eat, just take a look at your digestive system. We don't digest plant's main protein, cellulose, but we can use vitamins and fiber (and other nutrients from them), nor we have a mouth filled with funny looking teeth like deers or cows, but we don't have all pointy teeth like carnivOres do either. We have a mix, meaning we are designed (if you "believe") or evolved (if you're predominantly rational-inclined) to eat a variety of food to have a decent nutrition. Don't take my word for it, just study a bit of human metabolism. BTW, you can feed your body a lot of bad/non-optimal things and it'll try to change some metabolic pathways to cope, but that doesn't make it healthy -ie. alcoholics' metabolism is skewed towards alcohol so much, that after a drinking binge eating 'normal' food actually damages their livers (and puts their pancreas at risk too). That's why a vegetarian will feel bad if he tries to eat meat. Okay, this is the part about it being natural. It's not. We're a different species of ape, but not bonobos or gorillas, same as most bats eat fruit, but a few need blood and you wouldn't try to feed them apples, because that'd be cruel (and would also kill it).

I never said humans are not animals. In fact in my earlier post i clearly said we are animals, i said humans are Apes. And i said the way humans(the animal) and other animals are different is that humans have a morality(at least supposedly), where other animals dont have one or at least not as finely tuned as ours. We do digest plants well, we closely resemble herbavores. Our from our mouths down to our intestines, it is just like an herbavor. Our teeth are very close to all herbavore teeth, you seem to have it wrong. Even our jaw can move side to side as we use our molars to chew, carnivores cannot do this or have teeth like us. Our diet should be similar to apes, who even though we eat meat, we do not need to.

There isn't really much to debate, really. I like (other) animals, but I won't keep tigers from eating other animals ALIVE (how cruel!) and feed them carrots instead. Or maybe sharks or fish, that also eat other animals alive (where's the compassion?). As to the "we're suppossed to blah blah", we're not suppossed to be higher than other animals, that's a human distorted self-conception. Would you feed an evil lion carrots because you know better?. No. What's really really wrong is human's irresponsible over populating and consuming of resources. That alone leads to unnatural systems to procure food, like those horrible [chicken|cow|pig|whatever] breeding farms, or the highly processed "food" products most people love to eat.

It's OK if you want to believe things, but you cannot make them real just because you do. Just because I want to believe that eating rocks is healthy and natural and it's the true nature of my digestive system, doesn't mean it'll work out in the end. BTW, I have vegetarian relatives. They're "healthy", except they don't look so healthy compared to my healthy relatives that eat a balanced diet, and no artificial stuff like processed sugars and flours (yes, those things aren't natural, we're not made to eat them), but if you put them side by side with my overweight/unhealthy relatives, then yes, they look healthier, even though most of them have receding gums (a common vegetarian's ailment, from malnutrition). By the way, I love sweets and pies and all that stuff, and a part of me wants to believe that it's ok to eat that. Except it's not, and I KNOW it, therefore I seldom eat a portion of that and it tastes like glory (but it's neither natural or nutritious or healthy).

You seem to get the idea that i dont think we are animals. I never said that, i made it clear that we are animals. Humans(the kind of animal) are different only in the sense that we have a morality. We can observe and see that if we dont like something done to us, for sure other sentient beings would not like it either. I see that you on the other hand say that you are no different then any other animals in every sense, fine, just make sure its clear that it came out of your mouth cus i actually agree with this. You also make claims that are wrong about needing meat, in fact there are lots of harm when we do eat meat which would take a whole lot of writing to go through them all(Cholesterol, acidic in blood, osteoporosis, heart disease, insufficient fiber intake...)We do not need meat, and we have no problem digesting vegetables and fruit. We eat it and what supposed to happen, happens. I see you are not clear on what is the 'natural' thing to do really.
 
I never said humans are not animals. In fact in my earlier post i clearly said we are animals, i said humans are Apes. And i said the way humans(the animal) and other animals are different is that humans have a morality(at least supposedly), where other animals dont have one or at least not as finely tuned as ours. We do digest plants well, we closely resemble herbavores. Our from our mouths down to our intestines, it is just like an herbavor. Our teeth are very close to all herbavore teeth, you seem to have it wrong. Even our jaw can move side to side as we use our molars to chew, carnivores cannot do this or have teeth like us. Our diet should be similar to apes, who even though we eat meat, we do not need to.

Again, that's belief, not fact. BTW, all animal's digestive systems are similar in one way or another. Heck, from a topological point of view, from mouth to "disposal sphincters" we're all donuts. And again, NO, we don't really have similar digestive systems. We don't have multiple stomachs, nor do we regurgitate food or pre-process in the same way as rumiants do (a symbiotically enhanced fermentation system). Just read a bit about biochemistry, anatomy and study the metabolism of different organisms. Just because you want humans to be herbivores doesn't make it so. We are NOT herbivores, nor are we carnivores. We're in the middle. And please note again, I'm not using belief (or wishful thinking), but fact. Of course I'd love to be a Candivore and eat sweets all day. Ideally, I'd also like it to be so that the end product was a bit of ethanol expelled through my mouth, so as not to deal with nasty byproducts and it's disposal at toilet time. But I'm not a candivore :( .

Have you heard the phrase "knowledge shall set you free"?. Well, it's true. "The more you know"...

EDIT: About the part of Humans being animals, yes, you mentioned too, but then proceeded to mention things we somehow are supposed to do, except those things come from human abstraction and imagination. They're constructs that most of the times serve the purpose of maintaining social coherence, since we're not hive-minded or hive-oriented, nor eco-friendly, but outside our self-perceived reality, they mean nothing. We're not supposed to be self appointed gods to other animals, nor are we supposed to dispose of them the way we please, both extremes are wrong.
 
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Again, that's belief, not fact. BTW, all animal's digestive systems are similar in one way or another. Heck, from a topological point of view, from mouth to "disposal sphincters" we're all donuts. And again, NO, we don't really have similar digestive systems. We don't have multiple stomachs, nor do we regurgitate food or pre-process in the same way as rumiants do (a symbiotically enhanced fermentation system). Just read a bit about biochemistry, anatomy and study the metabolism of different organisms. Just because you want humans to be herbivores doesn't make it so. We are NOT herbivores, nor are we carnivores. We're in the middle. And please note again, I'm not using belief (or wishful thinking), but fact. Of course I'd love to be a Candivore and eat sweets all day. Ideally, I'd also like it to be so that the end product was a bit of ethanol expelled through my mouth, so as not to deal with nasty byproducts and it's disposal at toilet time. But I'm not a candivore :( .

Have you heard the phrase "knowledge shall set you free"?. Well, it's true. "The more you know"...

Again, we are Apes. Humans are apes and we do not need to eat meat. I know vegans that are extremely healthy and have not eaten meat for 50 years. If they needed meat then the would not be so healthy now, thats a fact.
 
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