SMM - 6 chargebacks $1,280

No, I know the pages stay removed from public view, I won't list them again.

I still disagree.

Yeah I saw the race shit starting up.



I might do that, but I wanted to list them publicly too, for a number of reasons.

I am moving on. This is my process.

And I don't rant, dickface :)

Everyone understands whats happened to you. It's happened probably to most of us at some point and its terrible.
But swearing at other members will not help and is not cool.

My advice, turn off the PC and go and take the dog for a walk if you have one.

If you haven't got a dog, turn off the PC anyway and go for a walk.
 
Everyone understands whats happened to you. It's happened probably to most of us at some point and its terrible.
But swearing at other members will not help and is not cool.

My advice, turn off the PC and go and take the dog for a walk if you have one.

If you haven't got a dog, turn off the PC anyway and go for a walk.

I didn't swear at anybody. Gary Vee says dickface to people all the time and it's all good. I won't accept this double standard :)
 
Don't waste your time fighting, I have first hand experience..
They will always side with buyer.. you are selling Digital services so you already lost there itself..!
FUCK PAYPAL
 
Don't waste your time fighting, I have first hand experience..
They will always side with buyer.. you are selling Digital services so you already lost there itself..!
FUCK PAYPAL

Totally FUCK PAYPAL!!!

 
What a scum, that guy.

We definitely need a system to safeguard the seller's as well as buyer's money.
@Diamond Damien had the right idea in mind to launch another market place where the payments would get processed through BHW. Paying a bit more is better than losing such a huge amount to scums.
I Honestly think the buyer and seller should split the fee though. Somthing like 2% each . It's still lower than places like eBay for seller and buyer gets extra protection.


Also @Scorpion Ghost You could threaten this https://tips.fbi.gov if they are us based. That works for me usually :) .
 
I got worse before https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/receive-money-from-verify-paypal-account-only.816101/
How to know if the money are you receiving from is from verified PayPal account or not?? How to spot verified and non verified paypal account?
 
How to know if the money are you receiving from is from verified PayPal account or not?? How to spot verified and non verified paypal account?

I think he's talking address. If the address is confirmed you can see it, and the same if it's unconfirmed.

See:

8gqKrNk
 
Also happened to me but it was just 30€ or so. Do you know something about the scammer?

This is where I fight back when I have no other options. I start looking for something about the customer. I go into my website and find the person's history on my site. I block and ban everything about them from the site. I block their IP, name, home address, email address, and credit card. Then I take their info and run it through Google and/or Public Records to see what other info I can find to get an idea of who the person is. A good portion of the time, you will find them somewhere else on the Internet. One time I found a scammer's house in Florida. Turned out to be some teenager using his mom's credit card. When she found out, she was the one who did the chargeback. I wasn't the only one she did a chargeback against. She wrote about it on her facebook page.

I didn't wanted to fight because I didn't want paypal to see my site and business model.

This is the problem. You have to be very careful not to let your payment processor see who is coming to your website. Sometimes it is better to stay quiet and lose $1,000 so you can go on an continue your business.

Absolutely. This is an old thing. Scammers know how Paypal works and feels about digital products, especially SMM services. So they buy a bunch of things, and then the do chargebacks on all. Paypal usually sides with the buyer, and then the scammer keeps the products/services and the money.

That is true, and because of that, you have to ask yourself these questions before you start doing business with Paypal:

1. Do I really want to fool around with Paypal?
2. How am I going to feel when they swipe my money?
3. Will I be able to wait 180 days for them to release my money?
4. Am I in the mood to be scammed by Paypal?

I'm sorry, but I just can't get with Paypal. I've been with them for 20 years and never had a limitation or even a problem with them, but ALL OF THE HORROR STORIES DUDE! Why would anyone hitch their wagon to Paypal? I don't feel that Paypal should be used for business. It was created for ebay and that's where it should stay. No legitimate business is using Paypal. If you want to use Paypal, then you have to remind yourself before you start the business that they are going to scam you. It's who they are.

I guess it's a little different if you're doing physical products, so you have shipping info and stuff like that. But for digital products and services, how do you give proof of delivery? Scammers know and use Paypal for these types of scams, and Paypal sides with them 99% of the time, and encourages them.

If you want to continue with this business and Paypal, you can do what someone from the Askpin forums used to do. I bought a digital item from a member over there and a week later I got an envelope in the mail full of paper shreds. A true "WTF?" moment. After a few minutes, I realized who it came from and why. I smiled. The seller was covering his azz.


Absolutely. What I've come to realize is that you don't build a business with Paypal as your main payment processor. You can use Paypal, secondary, on the side, for the customers that just can't pay with any other method. But you don't build a business with Paypal, they kill you in a second, no reason given, no appeal possible, just gone in a second.

Glad you came to this realization. You are better than Paypal. Your business is better than Paypal. Yes you will miss out on sales if you do not use it, but let me tell you something: You don't want those customers. Those are low brow customers. If a customer only has Paypal as their option to pay for things, what does that tell you about that customer? They probably shouldn't be shopping with you. You want the customer who has a real credit card that can be entered into a real payment processor like Stripe.

When it comes to chargebacks, here is a powerful piece of advice that I learned a long time ago from the IM gurus: The money was never yours to begin with. The reason it was never yours to begin with is because the customer most likely went into the transaction with the intention to chargeback regardless if your service was good or bad. I don't get very many chargebacks myself, but realizing that the money was not mine from the start really changed the way I view transactions. If someone scammed me with a chargeback, then let them have their money back. I don't want to do business with them. Their money is no good with me.

It's funny. At one point I asked him point blank, I said, "I'm not gonna wake up a few months from now being hit with a number of chargebacks?"

LOL! See. That was your instincts telling you to drop the customer and back away. Listen to your instincts. Your mind saw the money and that led you astray, but your gut knew.

I am actually glad this happened to you OP. You learned 2 powerful life lessons that will bring you much prosperity in the future:

1. You know what you are worth now.
2. Listen to your instincts.
 
Glad you came to this realization. You are better than Paypal. Your business is better than Paypal. Yes you will miss out on sales if you do not use it, but let me tell you something: You don't want those customers. Those are low brow customers. If a customer only has Paypal as their option to pay for things, what does that tell you about that customer? They probably shouldn't be shopping with you. You want the customer who has a real credit card that can be entered into a real payment processor like Stripe.

In my research, as well as my experience on my own sites, simply offering PayPal increases conversion rates.
Even when the customer does not intend to pay via PayPal.
Maybe you don't want those customers, but I certainly do.
The brand recognition and trust value behind PayPal has immense benefits.
It's not like they couldn't just scam you via CC chargeback regardless.

No legitimate business is using Paypal.

That's not true. I can name tons.
Google. Best Buy. Newegg. Disney. Vitacost. Spotify. Uber.
Every online clothing company in existence.
And I could go on and on.
 
In my research, as well as my experience on my own sites, simply offering PayPal increases conversion rates.
Even when the customer does not intend to pay via PayPal.
Maybe you don't want those customers, but I certainly do.
The brand recognition and trust value behind PayPal has immense benefits.
It's not like they couldn't just scam you via CC chargeback regardless.



That's not true. I can name tons.
Google. Best Buy. Newegg. Disney. Vitacost. Spotify. Uber.
Every online clothing company in existence.
And I could go on and on.

Yes, Paypal does increase conversion rates, but what good are those conversions if the money is going to reverse itself back to the customer? That is a waste of your time. It is too easy for customers to charge back with Paypal. That is why it is not a legitimate option. Those are not the kind of transactions you want coming into your business. You want customers who are serious about your product. You are not going to find Paypal on a website that is serious about it's brand. Louis Vuitton does not except Paypal. They do real transactions, with legitimate customers who take their brand seriously and have no intention of charging back.
 
Yes, Paypal does increase conversion rates, but what good are those conversions if the money is going to reverse itself back to the customer? That is a waste of your time. It is too easy for customers to charge back with Paypal. That is why it is not a legitimate option. Those are not the kind of transactions you want coming into your business. You want customers who are serious about your product. You are not going to find Paypal on a website that is serious about it's brand. Louis Vuitton does not except Paypal. They do real transactions, with legitimate customers who take their brand seriously and have no intention of charging back.

Um.
Wrong again.
The US Louis Vuitton store absolutely accepts PayPal.

By the way, it's accept, not except.
 
Um.
Wrong again.
The US Louis Vuitton store absolutely accepts PayPal.

By the way, it's accept, not except.

I stand corrected! LV does accept Paypal!



Lol!

Well there's no way I would let Paypal hold my $2,500 for a luxury item. This thread tells me how things are going to end.
 
If you want to continue with this business and Paypal, you can do what someone from the Askpin forums used to do. I bought a digital item from a member over there and a week later I got an envelope in the mail full of paper shreds. A true "WTF?" moment. After a few minutes, I realized who it came from and why. I smiled. The seller was covering his azz.

Nahh. I see why someone would do that, but I don't sell digital products/services in order to have to get up and go to the goddamn post office. So this wouldn't work for me.

Glad you came to this realization. You are better than Paypal. Your business is better than Paypal. Yes you will miss out on sales if you do not use it, but let me tell you something: You don't want those customers. Those are low brow customers. If a customer only has Paypal as their option to pay for things, what does that tell you about that customer? They probably shouldn't be shopping with you. You want the customer who has a real credit card that can be entered into a real payment processor like Stripe.

When it comes to chargebacks, here is a powerful piece of advice that I learned a long time ago from the IM gurus: The money was never yours to begin with. The reason it was never yours to begin with is because the customer most likely went into the transaction with the intention to chargeback regardless if your service was good or bad. I don't get very many chargebacks myself, but realizing that the money was not mine from the start really changed the way I view transactions. If someone scammed me with a chargeback, then let them have their money back. I don't want to do business with them. Their money is no good with me.

Well, thing about Stripe is. One, they also don't accept my type of business. Two, they're not available in my country. So I couldn't use them anyway.

But you're right about the customer who can only pay with Paypal. If somebody really wants to buy something from me, they'll find a way. I'm not asking someone to climb a mountain, just transfer some money to me from a source other than Paypal. And if that doesn't work for you, then you can buy what you need from someone else. It's not like I rely on 3 customers to eat. I can afford to lose a few.

Yeah that's true on the chargebacks and money not being yours to begin with. I mean, in actual fact I lost about half of that money, because it cost me about half that to actually deliver the services. Maybe a little more than half. But also time, A LOT of time. But strictly speaking numbers, my actual monetary loss was about half of the $1,130.

LOL! See. That was your instincts telling you to drop the customer and back away. Listen to your instincts. Your mind saw the money and that led you astray, but your gut knew.

I am actually glad this happened to you OP. You learned 2 powerful life lessons that will bring you much prosperity in the future:

1. You know what you are worth now.
2. Listen to your instincts.

Yeah exactly, it's like I knew. And this person was so annoying, calling me on skype out of the blue all the time, pushing and pushing for faster and faster deliveries and always pushing and asking for discounts. I wanted to let him go, but the money, yeah, the money haha :)
 
In my research, as well as my experience on my own sites, simply offering PayPal increases conversion rates.
Even when the customer does not intend to pay via PayPal.
Maybe you don't want those customers, but I certainly do.
The brand recognition and trust value behind PayPal has immense benefits.
It's not like they couldn't just scam you via CC chargeback regardless.



That's not true. I can name tons.
Google. Best Buy. Newegg. Disney. Vitacost. Spotify. Uber.
Every online clothing company in existence.
And I could go on and on.

Yeah they could. But like I have customers that have been with me for years, I know they're not going to scam or chargeback on me. But even still, the money I received from them is laying around in some Paypal account now collecting dust for 180 days. It would have still been a better option to get paid differently from those customers.

About businesses accepting Paypal. Well, I'm not Google, or Best Buy, or Newegg, orr Disney, or Vitacost, or Spotify, or Uber, I'm just me. And me gets banned by a Paypal monkey with a happy trigger finger. Those businesses you listed they don't get banned. And if they do, it's solved in 10 minutes flat. And if it's not, a multi million lawsuit probably falls down on Paypal's neck. Apples and oranges.

That said, yes, of course, Paypal is the most widely used payment processor and if you're not offering it you are leaving money on the table. No denying that.

Yes, Paypal does increase conversion rates, but what good are those conversions if the money is going to reverse itself back to the customer? That is a waste of your time. It is too easy for customers to charge back with Paypal. That is why it is not a legitimate option. Those are not the kind of transactions you want coming into your business. You want customers who are serious about your product. You are not going to find Paypal on a website that is serious about it's brand. Louis Vuitton does not except Paypal. They do real transactions, with legitimate customers who take their brand seriously and have no intention of charging back.

I'm not even saying people shouldn't use Paypal (though it would be fun), I'm just saying they should use other payment processors too, and prioritize those other ones over Paypal.

I stand corrected! LV does accept Paypal!



Lol!

Well there's no way I would let Paypal hold my $2,500 for a luxury item. This thread tells me how things are going to end.

Yeah but physical products being sold, address must correspond, it's a different game than digital. Plus, this is a huge company we're talking about. I can't compare to any of the big names listed here and pretend that me and them are being handled under the same rules and possibilities.

Paypal is good as a side thing, good for starting out, but if you're serious about making money you should never rely only on Paypal. And it should be a priority to get other payment methods going as soon as possible.

Let's say you earned $5,000 this month, and you have it all sitting in 1 Paypal account, and they suspend you and freeze the money for 180 days. You're Fucked, royally.

Now let's say you earned $5,000 this month, and you have $2,500 in Paypal, and $1,000 in Payoneer, and $500 in cryptos, and $500 in Stripe, and $500 in Skrill... and Paypal suspends you. Now it hurts a little bit, but you're not royally screwed :)
 
I think he's talking address. If the address is confirmed you can see it, and the same if it's unconfirmed.

See:

8gqKrNk
It's not showing confirmed address to me for any payment is Received.. even the legit one's.. so I think most people only uses non confirmed account.. my scammer had multiple ids.. he had multiple accounts on Gmail and Yahoo etc.. sent me different different emails.. I think if we only accept from the verified then it will limit a lot of buyers
 
It's not showing confirmed address to me for any payment is Received.. even the legit one's.. so I think most people only uses non confirmed account.. my scammer had multiple ids.. he had multiple accounts on Gmail and Yahoo etc.. sent me different different emails.. I think if we only accept from the verified then it will limit a lot of buyers

True. I can't really give any advice on it. I don't know. I mean, I had customers unconfirmed and confirmed, and almost all were legit. So I don't know man. It's Paypal, there's no protection :D
 
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