Ogads Shaving?

bonzo90 said:

so https://www.blackhatworld.com/members/pankaj-bisht.1144956/, from your 3 clicks and 2 conversions, how could you have possibly denoted that 80% of your traffic has been shaved? quick maths.. PM me your affiliate id and i will for sure take a look at your traffic.

I want everyone to know, WE DO NOT and WILL NEVER SHAVE...

for the BHW community, Publishers like pankaj here write such posts on BlackHatWorld and really end up not understanding how damaging it can be for my business, for example here if the "people" who sent you screenshots already had the app, it wouldn't count as an install, as they are not counted as "new" users if they already had the app, thats just one example of how 3 clicks would not equal 3 conversions when you see the screenshots they have sent....

just one example of people who are too lazy to message their account managers and instead feel the need to write it on bhw? really annoying as i work so hard to ensure that my publishers are taken care of an i get notified of posts like this from newcomers who havent even talked to their managers yet!

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I forgot which account was tied to OGads otherwise I would have tagged you but I see you found your way

I know several of these posts have come around BHW and other boards and I can imagine it sucks explaining it every time to these newbies but that's just the less fun part of the job I guess which you are doing a good job off.

zzxxcc said:

What type of evidence you want exactly it would be easy to do that, i will use an virtual machine with private ssh proxies and will make an video of that it wont convert, is that enough for you? Proxies are clean i check them for risk and proxyscore, on top of that we can use an RDP. It just wont convert, like the OP said.. its definitely over 50%.

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Err.... so what your explaining is Fraud here...

1) you are using a virtual machine to emulate a device (android) - which we detect for and usually block or the lead wont be accepted because the advertiser KNOWS its an emulator device
2) you are using private ssh "proxies" - which are probably on a list that we actively block against and each ip has a trust score so if they have already been used to install the same app before, we know its fraud

So yeah, you must be right, OGAds doesnt convert on your "virtual machine with private ssh proxies method".... lol

bonzo90 said:

So yeah, you must be right, OGAds doesnt convert on your "virtual machine with private ssh proxies method".... lol

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As I said earlier, he's been caught with his pants down.

He's another one that claims people send him proof they've 'completed' tasks (how that can work unless it's him or he's asked people to complete tasks is beyond me):

zzxxcc said:

More than half of my leads wont convert, dont know why... people send me pic proofs that they have completed tasks.. and i receive maybe 15-20% of these.. Tried several different countries, same shit.. im not saying they are shaving, but there is something shady definitely around it.

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On yet another thread, he's complaining that he asked "friends" to complete leads and then complains when those leads don't convert!

zzxxcc said:

Send my friends in Finland several links to complete.. the first 2 links i sent, didnt convert after they completed.. but the third link i send, does..

Whats up with this? Im not accusing anyone in shaving, but is this the network problem or what because there is clearly an issue and thats bit shady.

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bonzo90 said:

Err.... so what your explaining is Fraud here...

1) you are using a virtual machine to emulate a device (android) - which we detect for and usually block or the lead wont be accepted because the advertiser KNOWS its an emulator device
2) you are using private ssh "proxies" - which are probably on a list that we actively block against and each ip has a trust score so if they have already been used to install the same app before, we know its fraud

So yeah, you must be right, OGAds doesnt convert on your "virtual machine with private ssh proxies method".... lol

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Dont try to get smart with me, you dont detect anything and i will prove this.
What emulator are you talking about? I will use VM just for having a clean machine. Or i will use an RDP like said before. No emulator needed, as im just talking about email surveys/submissions.
People use these things to play payment processors over like Stripe, so dont even start that "we detect everything". You do not, you dont have any better security than payment gateways with browser fingerprinting, and these gets played over daily basis. And how can you have a list to proxies that are not publicly free or open source available? You dont have and couldnt have this is just impossible. As you can read i check proxies with risk and proxyscore so I dont even understand what you are talking about.
You represent who here from OG ads? Definitely you are not very technical wise.
The point what im trying to make is that you cherrypick these leads and shave, and come here to talk absolute nonsense that it can not be done if someone wants, well what if i will prove this with a video it can be done.. then what? On top of that i will prove that you will let part of them through and you do not detect anything and other part you will just straight up shave.
I will make a new thread with a video soon and i will be sure to tag you so you better set your excuses ready.

zzxxcc said:

What emulator are you talking about? I will use VM just for having a clean machine

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A Virtual Machine EMULATES a Virtual Computer.

Billy Batts said:

A Virtual Machine EMULATES a Virtual Computer.

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He is talking about android emulator, read before you comment.

zzxxcc said:

He is talking about android emulator, read before you comment.

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And? Android can also be loaded into a VM so in that case it emulates a virtual phone or tablet.

Besides the point, I quoted your answer about your VM remark to create a clean machine which is still emulating and detectable so read before you comment.

Now if you would use a RDC on a clean residential IP you might have a point but helas, you just acting against 2 people who are very experienced.
@Sephrata already schooled you and @bonzo90 I think owns OGads or at least works there and they have been around for a couple years now, you claim they shave over 50%, you really think they would be so popular if they shave over 50%? Where is your proof? You are just being silly and ignorant.

Billy Batts said:

And? Android can also be loaded into a VM so in that case it emulates a virtual phone or tablet.

Besides the point, I quoted your answer about your VM remark to create a clean machine which is still emulating and detectable so read before you comment.

Now if you would use a RDC on a clean residential IP you might have a point but helas, you just acting against 2 people who are very experienced.
@Sephrata already schooled you and @bonzo90 I think owns OGads or at least works there and they have been around for a couple years now, you claim they shave over 50%, you really think they would be so popular if they shave over 50%? Where is your proof? You are just being silly and ignorant.

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There is no possible way they can detect it with these security measures any affiliate network is using.
As i mention im using VM for a clean machine, i do not deal with android emulators on VM thats just absolute nonsense.
I am using email surveys/submissions with these clean machines.
Payment gateways will check your email validation against email creation of time and give the email an score, and they can reject the fraudulent transaction only based upon email, this is why cc fraudsters constantly trying to buy bulk private and university email access. That detection method affiliate networks definitely wont use because the cost per request per email would take too much profit from the affiliate network. So the affiliate network or the companies they are associated, can reject the "lead" email only if that email is already in system or dosent exist at all, this is the only thing they can detect. So i will create a bunch of emails and show you how half of these will get accepted and convert, and the other part will not, second, there are various methods to detect an actual virutal machines but these techniques are too advanced that no affiliate market will use that, AND by VM i mean operating system machines, open up the google and type in "how to detect an virtual machine" give it a read and then give it another thought how the affiliate markets could not use that. This will just be an painfully overwhelming process to detect every fraudster on their network, considering the amounts, leads and clicks they get.

Now, see these things will start to change already, what i told first that they will shave is coming to that it cant be done.. will make the tests and we can proceed from there, there is no point of arguing and im not going to argue when i have the proof. Nobody of them is schooling anything, these people dont even know what they are talking about.

This thread is ridiculous.

@zzxxcc You have openly admitted that you have created fraudulent leads, by asking friends to complete offers. You are now claiming how easy it is to 'cheat' an affiliate network, who is a Market Place seller on here, and you've published your method. I am fairly sure that cheating affiliate networks like this is against the rules of BHW and certainly cheating Market Place sellers should not be tolerated.

Both you and @pankaj Bisht have accused OGAds of cheating without a single iota of evidence. This is now the third time you've accused a network of 'shaving' your leads. As @BassTrackerBoats says, show evidence or it didn't happen.

@bonzo90 is completely right that these kind of threads do a lot of damage to affiliate networks, especially those who are very well respected on here and in the wider internet marketing community.

If you have evidence that you've been cheated, then open a Shit List. There is a reason for this process, especially since a couple of people should not be making unsubstantiated accusations about a Market Place seller over quite literally, peanuts.

I would request that @BassTrackerBoats locks this thread as it's damaging to OGAds and it serves no purpose here.

The video is one the way with the proofs needed or close my account that i openly and falsely accused an network, i will provide the proofs as said and i will use my own funds for this operation to prove that.
If i use fraud just to prove someone is commiting fraud, i dont see the problem. Never cashed out those peanuts i made with them, im just trying to prove how they rippoff people.
No network is ripping everyone off and can be in the business constantly, what im saying they cherrypick and do selective payouts.

As i see above - these guys somehow try to trick ogads and then surpise they dont get conversions
Ogads is legit, i work with them 2 years now

soa0611 said:

As i see above - these guys somehow try to trick ogads and then surpise they dont get conversions
Ogads is legit, i work with them 2 years now

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Nobody tries or has tricked OGads, i asked people that i know to test the locker i made, big part of the leads didnt convert.
Its against the rules to ask friends to complete that, well it takes more money and time to create an environment to prove that they are shaving, it wouldnt be profitable for me to buy RDPs or ssh private proxies, paying for checking against the risk and proxy score, creating the VMs and setting the FF up with all sorts of fingerprint detection. So i need to spend more money for the setup, than the affiliate would pay out. But i will do that now, why i avoided this and asked my friends to complete that with their clean machine and emails? Just because that it will cost me time and money that i just described above, i dont see problem when someone is testing out, and the tests failed.. So whats left then? Only to create these "neutral environments" and make proof that what im saying is accurate.

Don't always blame the network. It is possible that the advertiser is the one shaving.

Highwon said:

Don't always blame the network. It is possible that the advertiser is the one shaving.

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Its true. But this is not the case, you can never prove that who is the one who is doing the shaving, you can only prove that shaving occurs.
Its time for people to step up and provide the proofs needed, its the issue of the affiliate to sort things out and do those kind of regular checks themselves against the advertisers that i have said above. Affiliate can always say "we didnt get paid for this", well maybe you should sort out these people and do regular check YOURSELVES, so you wouldnt have these kind of issues.
The actual problem here is exceedingly simple, some of the leads wont convert that should. An regular user dont have either the time or knowledge or maybe even funds to prove that he was right. So he comes to forum to post this, then the bell rings and instantly you have people up for woodwork who are protecting that this is nonsense, well its not.
For me its very simple to say that the affiliate shaves itself, why? Because if the affiliate would run this type of checks against their advertisers, this problem wouldnt happen.. at least on this scale.. when you come here to point out the problem they will say that you are commiting fraud, but in the same time they need a proof? Maybe if the users wouldnt need to do your job to sort out your own shit-list these things wouldnt happen.

@zzxxcc is indeed violating the ToS of every CPA network in the world and some in other parts of the world and this is a great way for you to lose your accounts with a CPA network.

Thread is closed and any further commentary I come across on how to defraud another member or a network on here will result in a warning as that kind of talk is against the ToS.

BassTrackerBoats said:

@zzxxcc is indeed violating the ToS of every CPA network in the world and some in other parts of the world and this is a great way for you to lose your accounts with a CPA network.

Thread is closed and any further commentary I come across on how to defraud another member or a network on here will result in a warning as that kind of talk is against the ToS.

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New name - @neonmint.