Off shore hosting/staying under the radar question

dooberton · May 6, 2020

Hi everyone. I have been doing Instagram growth for clients using automation for a few years now, it's gone pretty good.

I want to expand quite aggressively though and I want to not necessarily attempt to make myself fully untraceable but I just want to make sure i'm not low hanging fruit.

Trying to not be an easy target for Instagram to want to go after for example.

So, I set out to start a company under a friend, then move our site to his company name and get a new domain bought using a friend in another country, and then use the onion host for hosting.

I get that there's probably a lot more I can do, but like I said, just trying to do enough. To make it a hassle for them to even issue a C&D because it's not easy to see who the owner is.

SO HERE'S MY QUESTION:

The new company will be under an LLC. Currently, with my S Corp, I can simply type in the company name on a company search site and see the company owner.

So, is there even a point to set up off-shore hosting and domain protection if the information is already very easily publicly accessible?

Is there any kind of service that can protect your identity from someone searching the company?

I'd really appreciate any tips on this, it's definitely not my expertise.

NOTE: I just want to finally reiterate one more time, since I know someone's ready to rag on me, that I understand if Instagram wants to shut you down they're going to do it. But I want to minimize my risk.

nasa2009 · May 6, 2020

i'm not really an expert buy my question is why do you want to publish the name of your LLC ?
secondly a New Mexico or Wyoming LLC are your only option if you want to keep your private info from the public because they don't list name of owners or directors but they do list the name of the agent which means if Instagram figured out the name of the company getting sued is easy that;s why i asked the question above . also you need to take to a CPA if you live outside NM or Wyoming to figure out taxation .

dooberton · May 6, 2020

nasa2009 said:
i'm not really an expert buy my question is why do you want to publish the name of your LLC ?
secondly a New Mexico or Wyoming LLC are your only option if you want to keep your private info from the public because they don't list name of owners or directors but they do list the name of the agent which means if Instagram figured out the name of the company getting sued is easy that;s why i asked the question above . also you need to take to a CPA if you live outside NM or Wyoming to figure out taxation .

Thanks for the reply and useful info! Didn't know that about the New Mexico and Wyoming LLC, good to know. Regarding the first question, we set up the LLC to hopefully protect personal assets if the new company was sued.

nasa2009 · May 6, 2020

dooberton said:
Thanks for the reply and useful info! Didn't know that about the New Mexico and Wyoming LLC, good to know. Regarding the first question, we set up the LLC to hopefully protect personal assets if the new company was sued.

yeah i understand that but i don't see any reason to publish the name of the company on your website or anywhere . you just need that info for the bank and IRS . this is just my opinion .

dooberton · May 6, 2020

nasa2009 said:
yeah i understand that but i don't see any reason to publish the name of the company on your website or anywhere . you just need that info for the bank and IRS . this is just my opinion .

Ahh I see what you mean. So make the LLC name different than the name of the website and branding on the site.

AAW · May 6, 2020

Ok I'm somehow an expert in this, LOL
My first question is: are you a US citizen? do you live in US?
My 2nd and other questions are: which I don't get: you are trying to do some blackhat things on IG or .... and you are afraid that IG/ FB will chase you to C&D and YOU THINK by not having the LLC under your name, they will not be able to sue or do C& D? you are wrong here, these large corps do not need to find who is the owner of the LLC, Inc ... they can simply send whatever they want to your LLC and you as an owner is responsible to answer/ or follow through these complaints ... what I'm trying to say is that: the fact that your name is not showing under the US LLC is not something can protect you, nothing can protect you if you are not following the law or if you are doing something shady.

Now back to the question about you not wanting people to find out who is the owner of the LLC by just googling the LLC name at the state where it was created, for example, lets say you create BHW, LLC in California, and you go to the secretary of the state of CA website and just search BHW, LLC and you can see Mr. Smith is the owner and I know you hate that, then if this is what you need to fix, I have a solution and a lawyer for you. Your best bet as mentioned above is to create LLC in New Mexico and maybe Wyoming, I don't know about Wyoming but I do know about California/ NM mix: create a NM, LLC (Can't be named BHW, name it WHW or whatever), this will cost around $300, then the same lawyer will create CA, LLC (BHW, LLC) , lol, and the NM, LLC will be named as managing member ... so whoever is going to search who owns BHW, LLC they will find out that WHW, LLC (the NM LLC ) is the owner, now when they go search NM for the owner of WHW, they will have a very hard time to find it, why because NM and may be Wyoming are best states to keep owners names secret. CA, LLC will cost you around $1000 or so and you have to pay $20 a month for mailing services for NM, LLC and same for the CA, LLC. For taxes: since the main LLC is a California one (for example as you need to do the main one at the state where you live) you will file your taxes based on that state (the state where you live) and for the above example, the NM LLC is not going to cost you anything per year other than the mailing services that the lawyer needs to bill you for it which is good. You still need to pay the LLC fee for CA which is $800 a year and there is no fee for NM. So as you see, setting up two LLC in two different state is the answer to hide your name from the regular online searches ... BUT you will not be protected from lawsuits as they will find you and send you lawsuits wherever you are, it does not matter. Keep in mind the expenses: $300 + $1000 to do two LLCs and monthly mailing around $20 each and at the end: is it worth it?

The above example can be any state for the main LLC, not only CA, it can be TX, FL, ..... also if you need to open a bank account they will ask you for the operating agreements for BOTH LLC so the bank will KNOW who is the owner of the NM!! sound silly, yes and lets hope the bank will not expose this info.

My advise: start without any LLC and see how it goes and if profitable and worth it, then take the next step.

I'm sorry I won't be able to post the lawyers names here, I don't like lawyers and will never advertise for them BUT this one who did some stuff for me was good, if you need more info PM me and make sure you follow the forum guidelines as I don't want Mr. Bass to get upset

dooberton · May 6, 2020

AAW said:
Ok I'm somehow an expert in this, LOL
My first question is: are you a US citizen? do you live in US?
My 2nd and other questions are: which I don't get: you are trying to do some blackhat things on IG or .... and you are afraid that IG/ FB will chase you to C&D and YOU THINK by not having the LLC under your name, they will not be able to sue or do C& D? you are wrong here, these large corps do not need to find who is the owner of the LLC, Inc ... they can simply send whatever they want to your LLC and you as an owner is responsible to answer/ or follow through these complaints ... what I'm trying to say is that: the fact that your name is not showing under the US LLC is not something can protect you, nothing can protect you if you are not following the law or if you are doing something shady.

Now back to the question about you not wanting people to find out who is the owner of the LLC by just googling the LLC name at the state where it was created, for example, lets say you create BHW, LLC in California, and you go to the secretary of the state of CA website and just search BHW, LLC and you can see Mr. Smith is the owner and I know you hate that, then if this is what you need to fix, I have a solution and a lawyer for you. Your best bet as mentioned above is to create LLC in New Mexico and maybe Wyoming, I don't know about Wyoming but I do know about California/ NM mix: create a NM, LLC (Can't be named BHW, name it WHW or whatever), this will cost around $300, then the same lawyer will create CA, LLC (BHW, LLC) , lol, and the NM, LLC will be named as managing member ... so whoever is going to search who owns BHW, LLC they will find out that WHW, LLC (the NM LLC ) is the owner, now when they go search NM for the owner of WHW, they will have a very hard time to find it, why because NM and may be Wyoming are best states to keep owners names secret. CA, LLC will cost you around $1000 or so and you have to pay $20 a month for mailing services for NM, LLC and same for the CA, LLC. For taxes: since the main LLC is a California one (for example as you need to do the main one at the state where you live) you will file your taxes based on that state (the state where you live) and for the above example, the NM LLC is not going to cost you anything per year other than the mailing services that the lawyer needs to bill you for it which is good. You still need to pay the LLC fee for CA which is $800 a year and there is no fee for NM. So as you see, setting up two LLC in two different state is the answer to hide your name from the regular online searches ... BUT you will not be protected from lawsuits as they will find you and send you lawsuits wherever you are, it does not matter. Keep in mind the expenses: $300 + $1000 to do two LLCs and monthly mailing around $20 each and at the end: is it worth it?

The above example can be any state for the main LLC, not only CA, it can be TX, FL, ..... also if you need to open a bank account they will ask you for the operating agreements for BOTH LLC so the bank will KNOW who is the owner of the NM!! sound silly, yes and lets hope the bank will not expose this info.

My advise: start without any LLC and see how it goes and if profitable and worth it, then take the next step.

I'm sorry I won't be able to post the lawyers names here, I don't like lawyers and will never advertise for them BUT this one who did some stuff for me was good, if you need more info PM me and make sure you follow the forum guidelines as I don't want Mr. Bass to get upset

Thanks a bunch for the info and the in depth break down. That’s a good idea about the two LLCs.

Yeah I’m a US citizen living in the US.

Not doing anything shady in my opinion, just using automation to grow client accounts. But Instagram doesn’t like this (anymore at least).

Yeah I get that if they want to they can find the owner, I guess I was just hoping that if I don’t piss them off too much and if it’s a hassle to issue a C&D, maybe it will lower the chances.

AAW · May 6, 2020

dooberton said:
Thanks a bunch for the info and the in depth break down. That’s a good idea about the two LLCs.

Yeah I’m a US citizen living in the US.

Not doing anything shady in my opinion, just using automation to grow client accounts. But Instagram doesn’t like this (anymore at least).

Yeah I get that if they want to they can find the owner, I guess I was just hoping that if I don’t piss them off too much and if it’s a hassle to issue a C&D, maybe it will lower the chances.

I do like the two LLC concept, I don't like anyone anywhere to be able to find who is the actual owner of a company, this IMO is ridiculous, larger corporations always protect their info/their members/ owners, that's why you see tons of companies have their Inc or LLC in Delaware or some states that offer more privacy, each of these states have their own things, I didn't suggest Delaware as the secrecy or protection of NM as far as I know is better plus you don't have to bother with their taxes. It is all depend on what your intention is, some people want to avoid paying state taxes and that's why they get Nevada LLC, others have something else. The law firm I used is very reasonable price wise and they have experts for most states and they were very informative in regard of what I wanted to do.
You are right, the less the others know who is owning what the less problems you will get, at least they have to work hard to find you and this may discourage them compared to the fact if you have a CA, LLC and your name is there as a if its a billboard sign!

dooberton · May 6, 2020

AAW said:
I do like the two LLC concept, I don't like anyone anywhere to be able to find who is the actual owner of a company, this IMO is ridiculous, larger corporations always protect their info/their members/ owners, that's why you see tons of companies have their Inc or LLC in Delaware or some states that offer more privacy, each of these states have their own things, I didn't suggest Delaware as the secrecy or protection of NM as far as I know is better plus you don't have to bother with their taxes. It is all depend on what your intention is, some people want to avoid paying state taxes and that's why they get Nevada LLC, others have something else. The law firm I used is very reasonable price wise and they have experts for most states and they were very informative in regard of what I wanted to do.
You are right, the less the others know who is owning what the less problems you will get, at least they have to work hard to find you and this may discourage them compared to the fact if you have a CA, LLC and your name is there as a if its a billboard sign!

What do you think about what was suggested above? Just not putting the LLC name on the website anywhere, so even if they looked it up it wouldn't come up. Or does that get me into a whole new world of trouble.

AAW · May 6, 2020

dooberton said:
What do you think about what was suggested above? Just not putting the LLC name on the website anywhere, so even if they looked it up it wouldn't come up. Or does that get me into a whole new world of trouble.

It depend how professional do you want to look on your website, if you think the actual company name is not important for people to do business with you then just name it as DBA (doing business as) for example if your LLC name is BHW, LLC, you can do business as Summit Marketing Services and just post everything about summit marketing services and do not list the BHW , LLC anywhere on your website and when you open a bank account add the DBA name as a DBA so when they send you money through paypal or credit card ... all will show the Summit marketing services, again that may not protect you very well as may be paypal will send your client the actual name, they don't really stop at your DBA name, same thing for the credit card merchant account and then again your client will be able to see the BHW, LLC and find you as an owner.

if this VERY important for you, then do double LLC, avoid CA as main LLC unless you live in CA, your main LLC MUST be in the state where you live, do NOT ever think to fool the IRS or the FTB

, no matter how much taxes you will end up paying, no matter how much LLC fee you will end up paying for your state LLC or move to a different state where the state taxes are less.

dooberton · May 6, 2020

AAW said:
It depend how professional do you want to look on your website, if you think the actual company name is not important for people to do business with you then just name it as DBA (doing business as) for example if your LLC name is BHW, LLC, you can do business as Summit Marketing Services and just post everything about summit marketing services and do not list the BHW , LLC anywhere on your website and when you open a bank account add the DBA name as a DBA so when they send you money through paypal or credit card ... all will show the Summit marketing services, again that may not protect you very well as may be paypal will send your client the actual name, they don't really stop at your DBA name, same thing for the credit card merchant account and then again your client will be able to see the BHW, LLC and find you as an owner.

if this VERY important for you, then do double LLC, avoid CA as main LLC unless you live in CA, your main LLC MUST be in the state where you live, do NOT ever think to fool the IRS or the FTB , no matter how much taxes you will end up paying, no matter how much LLC fee you will end up paying for your state LLC or move to a different state where the state taxes are less.

Ok thanks a bunch for all the info, that helps a bunch. I do live in CA haha. I think i'll go the DBA route and call it a day there!

theeyeinside · May 7, 2020

The double "anonymous" LLC is not really legit

https://www.l4sb.com/blog/the-florida-double-llc-is-double-trouble/

California is terrible for ANY business

You might try the Nevada LLC or New Mexico

There are entire books written about this.

Write down your goal and what you want to accomplish, THEN get help

Anything is better than being involved with California

Sincerely,

The Eye

MaxGuard · May 7, 2020

AAW said:
It depend how professional do you want to look on your website, if you think the actual company name is not important for people to do business with you then just name it as DBA (doing business as) for example if your LLC name is BHW, LLC, you can do business as Summit Marketing Services and just post everything about summit marketing services and do not list the BHW , LLC anywhere on your website and when you open a bank account add the DBA name as a DBA so when they send you money through paypal or credit card ... all will show the Summit marketing services, again that may not protect you very well as may be paypal will send your client the actual name, they don't really stop at your DBA name, same thing for the credit card merchant account and then again your client will be able to see the BHW, LLC and find you as an owner.

if this VERY important for you, then do double LLC, avoid CA as main LLC unless you live in CA, your main LLC MUST be in the state where you live, do NOT ever think to fool the IRS or the FTB , no matter how much taxes you will end up paying, no matter how much LLC fee you will end up paying for your state LLC or move to a different state where the state taxes are less.

If you don't mind me asking, what's the best for someone from other country who wants to setup in US (for business opportunities - just company, not moving to US) and doing business with US nationals. Where will he pay the taxes?

AAW · May 7, 2020

theeyeinside said:
The double "anonymous" LLC is not really legit

https://www.l4sb.com/blog/the-florida-double-llc-is-double-trouble/

California is terrible for ANY business

You might try the Nevada LLC or New Mexico

There are entire books written about this.

Write down your goal and what you want to accomplish, THEN get help

Anything is better than being involved with California

Sincerely,

The Eye

If you live in CA and operate your business in CA (even if its from home), then you have to make your LLC a CA LLC no way around it, can't fool the IRS, you can for sure set up Nevada, LLC but wait until the IRS and FTB find out and normally they will find out 5-10 years later and have you pay all back LLC fees plus penalties and boy these penalties are even more than the LLC fees ..... yeah we have seen it all and I don't know why we live in CA, nothing is attractive here anymore, fires, earthquakes, ridiculous taxes, insane housing prices, insane traffic ... and people would say wow the weather is nice, blah blah .... we DO NOT SEE weather anymore, LOL< all what we do work, work, work, work to make someone else rich (AKA the IRS!), I have friends who live in midwest or even GA ... they live in big houses, 5-6 bedrooms, 3000-6000 sf homes like palaces for $400,000 max, here in CA you can't buy anything for $800,000, a shitty 2 bedrooms, one bath very old house that is falling apart is hardly $650,000-700,000

AAW · May 7, 2020

PHP-Rockstars said:
If you don't mind me asking, what's the best for someone from other country who wants to setup in US (for business opportunities - just company, not moving to US) and doing business with US nationals. Where will he pay the taxes?

Good question, I know some good number of people who live in UK or South Africa or even HKG and have LLC in US, it can be done through knowledgeable lawyer, PM me I can send you a name but check them out first, I have used them for quite some work but again I never liked lawyers and will never advertise for any of them.
I think the lawyer can advise you on which state best for you to pick LLC, I believe its either Delaware or NV but I could be wrong, at the end of the year you can hire a CPA from that state and pay the taxes, you can get all the info from these lawyers.

nasa2009 · May 7, 2020

what about this situation
let's say that i want to register my site with the copyright office as it's required to be DMCA complaint but don't want to have my LLC name visible since that information is available to the public . what is the best solution for a US person not living in California ?.

is creating a foreign company owning my US LLC and registering the DMCA complaint site under the foreign company a good idea?
what about banking in the US? is it easy to open a bank account for my LLC that is owned by a foreign company ?

AAW · May 8, 2020

nasa2009 said:
what about this situation
let's say that i want to register my site with the copyright office as it's required to be DMCA complaint but don't want to have my LLC name visible since that information is available to the public . what is the best solution for a US person not living in California ?.

is creating a foreign company owning my US LLC and registering the DMCA complaint site under the foreign company a good idea?
what about banking in the US? is it easy to open a bank account for my LLC that is owned by a foreign company ?

Do you live in US? if yes then my example above about the CA, LLC as a main LLC is a general answer and the main LLC can be anywhere in US, it should where you live, the other LLC that is holding the main LLC is based in states where you can hide your name, for example CA, FL ... LLCs owners names are public records and anyone can see them when they go to the secretary of state website, the advantge of creating two LLCs or Inc .. is that the main LLC is managed by the other state LLC (the good state that can keep owners names un-public). If you live outside US or if you are not a US resident then I think you just have to create one LLC in the a state that can keep your info confidential (of course forget CA, NV, FL ...), you don't need two LLCs as us who live in US have to go with the two LLCs because we may not live in the state that keep your info confidential, I hope I explained it right.

I don't think the DMCA compliant thing has anything to do with whether the LLC showing the owner name or not, as I stated above: if you make illegal things they will find you, no matter if your name is showing on the LLC or not, the idea of the two LLC is just to make it harder for the 7 billion people on the earth that can just google your LLC and find you as an owner, if you don't like this fact then thats what make the two LLC attractive, it will NOT PROTECT you from lawsuits.

Off shore hosting/staying under the radar question

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