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Making Money with Ad & Traffic Arbitrage

Discussion in 'Making Money' started by se900se, Jun 28, 2017.

  1. se900se

    se900se Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    If you buy traffic, e.g. don't do anything and traffic is just delivered to your page - it's not safe, but if you run advertising and set actual ads, and links, landing pages, know where your ads a rotated etc - it's safe.

    I hope this answers your question.
     
  2. zcldeapple

    zcldeapple Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    e.g. don't do anything and traffic is just delivered to your page - it's not safe


    thanks,so
    your meaning is that ,all DISPLAY/cpc ads (in other words, set active ads) are safe for adsense arbitrage?

    right?
     
  3. se900se

    se900se Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I think I answered your question a few times already. I mean that if you don't provide the actual creatives and traffic is provided as a commodity, instead of ads, this is not safe. If your site is being advertised and you have real ads, you can track where the visitors come from, and those are real users that decided to click on your ad - it's safe.
     
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  4. jadsn

    jadsn Senior Member

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    There's a grey line. I know people who have done this without any issues, and people who got banned for the very same thing. According to Google, as long as you're providing value, and not arbitraging, then it's fine. I think it comes down to whoever is reviewing your site and if they feel like you're gaming the system or not. It also depends on Google's current agenda. If they need more advertising revenue, they're fine letting these low quality clicks go through, but when they decide they need more quality traffic for advertisers, the ban wave happens.

    The general pattern I've seen is the people who slowly scale, keep their account safe - and the ones who scale too fast, get banned.
     
  5. zcldeapple

    zcldeapple Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    thanks,bro
    send your a message,check it,
     
  6. se900se

    se900se Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I disagree with your message, and even though we all have our opinions I feel need to reply to this one as it may lead users like the apple guy wrong way.

    Pop traffic is a direct road to ban. We all know 'someone' who got away one-time, but I wouldn't suggest competing with a multi-billion dollar company.

    There is nothing wrong with arbitraging. Every site that has Google Ads or using AdWords does arbitrage.
    What Google does say you can't make money with them by scamming people and wasting their time, you need to provide real value.

    Not necessarily. Your site is not always refused by the human, not necessarily 'feelings' involved. 95% of those who apply, only do that because they want to make a quick buck with low-quality sites, which is the wrong approach. Low-quality sites don't bring revenue not for site owners, not for Google.

    Do you really believe that multi-billion dollar company is going to approve a bunch of low-quality sites just because they want to make extra few bucks?

    You suggest that every site started really slow, no one has bought traffic and waiting years before the got to a $100 - $1,000 a day?
    I work with sites who started with $5k ad budget from day one. No bans.
     
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  7. jadsn

    jadsn Senior Member

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    I think none of us (even some Google employees) can give a definite answer regarding this. I personally have never gotten into Adsense arbitrage myself. I managed campaigns for one company, and have a few friends who got into the industry through this strategy, so I was able to see many of this first-hand. I can only talk about my experience and the experience from others.

    For example, I had a friend who started adsense arbitrage, but struggled with losing money, breaking even, and finally breaking into profits. It looked like organic growth to Google. The same friend later helped another set of friends to avoid the same mistakes he made. Instead of going through that rough period, they made a profit their first week. The next month, had $400k in revenue. I actually joked with them they would get banned, and a few days before payday, they did.

    To make my point that even Google staff can't give a definite answer, the same guys who got banned, were super paranoid and made sure to keep in touch with Adsense support to make sure their ad placements, CTR, etc. was OK. The same support team that assured them everything was fine is the same team that banned him. Luckily for them, they kept all emails, and was able to sue Google for their money back (they only got a settlement later). You can Google around and look at some articles about these lawsuits. I'm pretty sure you'll see the same people I'm talking about.

    I 100% agree with this. I was referring to more high quality traffic used for arbitrage - Native, Facebook, and Display.

    To clarify what I mentioned, yes Google is fine with making money from ads, or why else would we be paying for it. But there's a grey area. If I'm promoting my ecommerce store related to what people are searching, there's no issue - I'm arbitraging, but providing value at the same time. What I believe OP is referring to (correct me if I'm wrong), is adsense arbitrage - buying cheap clicks and generating a profit from adsense ads. Usually these sites provide minimal value at best. It's typically a bunch of slideshow articles that are created specifically to generate ad impressions/clicks. On the other hand, sites that don't buy clicks and generate traffic via SEO typically have higher quality articles that answer a specific question. Google is OK with this, but arbitraging is a grey area IMO.

    To clarify here, I'm talking about Google staff who review active sites. If you know what you're doing, getting accepted isn't the hard part. Once you start generating revenue, Google staff can and will review your site to make sure it aligns with Google's policies. In the case of traffic arbitrage (arbitraging for adsense clicks), I think it's pretty much up to their discretion. If it's a more experienced reviewer who can spot these sites a mile away, you will get banned, otherwise you'll be safe for the time being.

    100% yes. I can go on an endless rant about this, but it's Google's job to make money and show increased revenue for their stockholders. Will they let you send bot clicks without repercussion? No. Will they mix in their high quality clicks with low quality? Yes.

    Just look at how the new Adwords dashboard is setup for new advertisers. Most of the default settings are specifically set to drive low quality clicks mixed in with high quality. Bing/Yahoo is even worst. The amount of garbage traffic they send your way is ridiculous, and they know it. But they have revenue goals to hit every quarter, and when things are slow, they slip in the garbage traffic. Even Facebook does this to an extent as well. If you're familiar with their ad platform, whenever you start a new campaign, you KNOW to uncheck certain features they keep pushing as a new "feature", because you know it's just garbage traffic.

    As an advertiser, I've seen an ungodly amount of garbage sites that were not only approved, but generate a decent amount of clicks. They know app traffic drives majority accidental clicks, yet you have to go through a work-around to get rid of these. They know certain default call-to-action buttons look native to the website and drives accidental clicks, but they let it happen. Remember the arrow button call-to-action they released when adsense arbitrage and slideshow articles was hot? Do you really think that was an accident?

    I'm not suggesting anything. Everything I mentioned was in reference to article arbitrage, since that's what it seems OP is referring to. Any other kind of arbitrage, I think is safe to scale as fast as you want. With article arbitrage, the pattern I've seen is those who scale too fast, end up getting the ban hammer.
     
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  8. se900se

    se900se Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Google doesn't have an AdSense support team. Unless you're an agency or a big site - support is very limited available through some forms and generic/automatic replies in most cases. 400k in one month is an impressive amount. If they 'earned' that with AdSense only, they could have earn 10x more with multiple networks on the site. I work with many publishers and I don't know a single one who makes over $1k and work only with AdSense - usually, publishers who know you should monetize multiple ad networks.

    I doubt your friends sued Google, but I wish it was (or is) true! There were only a couple of successful cases, and if I'm not wrong, Google sued back, so they weren't successful after all. There was also a settlement where Google agreed to pay some money to users who got banned, but only a few got paid.


    Let's agree to disagree then. Google is successful company and doesn't need prove anything to stockholders by scamming its users, I don't believe in that. Ads not necessarily set up via AdWords. Ad operations is what I do on a daily basis, and I would disagree that dashboard and the system is aimed to bring low quality clicks or bad results - I am getting 10x results on some campaign and I wouldn't say I'm unhappy as I expected 20x.

    Working with ads is not easy, requires a lot of skills and knowledge, it takes time and budget to get results. Most bad reviews and bad experiences based on the lack of knowledge or mistakes - which is part of the process.

    You are wrong and you said you have no experience (as you mentioned yourself).

    OP is trying to find cheapest traffic and wondering if pop would get him fine or if Facebook traffic will get him banned.
    My reply was that traffic that is forced to open the page won't do good, while traffic that opened site by choice - is safe.
     
  9. jadsn

    jadsn Senior Member

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    I don't need to prove this. If you Googled the case(s) you would probably have found the exact website I was talking about. No Google didn't countersue, they reached a settlement. I just Googled it and I made an error, it was 500k not 400k. And I mentioned they were newbies, so no they didn't know about CPM networks, fill rates, etc. We all learned about adsense arbitrage way before it was mainstream. Back when Taboola would give new advertisers $5,000 in credits when they opened an account. We were lucky enough to work with some experienced guys and get some free knowledge along the way.

    Yes, NOW ad arbitrage won't work without adsense. I'm talking about early on, before it was mainstream, when it was 100% possible with great ROI. If you were active in the space around that time, you would 100% know about these suits since it had a couple people nervous. Now everyone I know moved on from it and onto other projects that aren't as mainstream.

    You kinda make yourself silly when you make assumptions without doing the research.

    I said the new dashboard for new advertisers, aka Adwords express. Yes for experienced advertisers who know what to avoid, it's great and still provides a decent ROI. If you've spent a couple million in client's money (on the advertiser side, not adsense arbitrage), it's pretty obvious some of these features these ad networks try to push, generally brings in lower quality clicks. I wouldn't call it a scam but borderline and shady imo.

    Ad exchanger wrote a pretty good piece about this a few years back: https://adexchanger.com/online-adve...ation-buttons-hurt-advertisers-and-end-users/

    Do you really thing Google decided to go with the next CTA by accident?

    Agree to disagree.

    Again, this is the pattern I've seen. I never said this is a rule. And I mentioned I've been on the management end of adsense arbitraging, and very very close to people in this space, but not enough to call myself an expert. As far as ecommerce and lead-gen, I think I know a thing or two.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  10. zcldeapple

    zcldeapple Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    hi,bro,Adthrive is cpc or cpm?
    what about Adthrive cpm for/Usa traffic?bro
     
  11. se900se

    se900se Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    You don't need to prove this, nobody asked you. I guess we all can Google for something and find news to backup our story, but I don't know why would you do that - that's not a prove me wrong thread.

    I Googled as you suggested - the article you mentioned says 2015, so 'way before the mainstream' doesn't really fit here. Check BHW threads, you can see that AdSense was mainstream and still mainstream before 2009.

    Who 'we'? I think you said you weren't accepted and those were your friends. This is getting confusing.

    That's total nonsense arbitrage is possible without AdSense, this was never the rule. A lot of publishers do not work with AdSense, a lot of publishers consider AdSense bad ad network. The only advantage it has is that you could feed it all the remnant inventory (crap) other networks did not buy, so it makes sense to use it.

    I am pretty sure I was active, and I still am. However, you mentioned in your first comment that you weren't, so it's not me making myself silly, but you trying to make a story and back it up by googling some news.

    Relax buddy, this is not the place to argue > you gave your 2¢ advice for the @zldapple, he thanked you for that - we all appreciate your input, it doesn't require further conversation.
     
  12. jadsn

    jadsn Senior Member

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    Idk why you're so defensive and takin all this out of context. Maybe it's an ego thing since this is your thread, if so I apologize, i wanted to help @zldapple out.

    Everything I mentioned is exclusive to adsense arbitrage. I mentioned this before. I've been active here since 2008, I know arbitrage has been around since long before, however, adsense arbitrage was the "new" thing right before shopify/ecommerce, so it's pretty recent.

    "We were lucky enough to work with some experienced guys and get some free knowledge along the way."

    Yes, I never did adsense arbitrage, but been around adsense arbitrage, ecommerce, lead-gen, affiliate on a high level working with more experienced guys who been into IM since early 2000. I don't understand how its confusing to be actively around something and know valuable insights and details on an industry without being active in it. Your profile says you're from New York, if you've done some basic networking here it's pretty common.

    I don't mind having a debate with someone, and we dont have yo agree on most things, but you're putting off a tone you're an expert and can't be wrong. I seen your threads that got closed twice already, your website with false claims your company has been in Forbes and other publications... trust me, you dont know as much as you think.
     
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  13. se900se

    se900se Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    The thread is public, this is a public forum, it doesn't belong to me and I have no control over it - so it would be unwise for me to have 'ego' for my thread. Sorry if you feel I am being defensive, I am not, I just disagree with what you saying. Not agreeing on something doesn't mean being defensive or have a 'tone', just means I have different opinion. I am not sure why you keep replying, these arguments have no value for the public - you stated your opinion I stated mine, we agree to disagree.

    Your profile says you're Haitian in New York - so am I :)! I am glad to meet fellow New Yorker on the forum, there are quite a few New Yorkers on BHW :).

    I do specialize in Traffic Arbitrage, have multiple interviews in a number of publications, and I never brag on it on the forum... how is this related? (rhetorical question) I appreciate your researching skills.

    Yes, some of my threads were closed - I got that you were trying to find some 'down' points, but did you read why it was closed? Does it make me a bad person? Of course not. I don't claim I know everything, as Socrates said - 'I know that I know nothing'.

    If you want to continue this conversation - please feel free to PM, let's leave the thread for questions and other users.
     
  14. rtushar

    rtushar Newbie

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    Which ad mediation platform allows to join with arbitrage site as all traffic is paid.
     
  15. se900se

    se900se Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Any mediation platform will take you in as long as you have traffic on the site, paid, social, or organic.
     
  16. rtushar

    rtushar Newbie

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    So, What we need to tell them about traffic sources? And which network is best for tier 2 traffic. I am sending more than 1,00,000 traffic on arbitrage site.
     
  17. se900se

    se900se Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    You need to tell them everything about your site and your goals.
    Tier 2 could be very different - try this list - Top 100 Ad Networks
     
  18. rtushar

    rtushar Newbie

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    What is best solution instead of going to all individual networks? Any recommended mediation partner?
     
  19. Big Ron

    Big Ron Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I'll just add to the mix, I'm a FB advertising idiot. I am right now playing with FB ads for the first time. I just launched my first one. I only set the daily limit to $10 and for two days so I can control how much money I lose in this little experiment. I patiently waited to get approved. It really only took about an hour. Now I'm watching my hit counter trying to figure out which visitor I just paid $0.44 for one click.

    I clearly don't know what I'm doing but I am interested in learning. I'm monetized with Ezoic with social traffic of around 15,000 page views per month. I was hoping to see if I could drive traffic to my blog with FB ads somewhere close to net neutral. But Ezoic measures in EPMV so I'm having a hard time figuring out what a click costs me and earns me.

    Is it possible to negate my costs from FB with Ezoic ads?

    upload_2019-10-22_22-18-25.png

    And is the process of how to maximize the ads in FB in the former / old post?
     
  20. se900se

    se900se Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    From Ezoic site:

    EPMV = Total Earnings divided by (Visitors / 1,000)

    E.g.

    • In March, your earnings were $1000 (AdSense) + $5000 (AdX) + $500 (Native Ads) = $6,500
    • March sessions - from Google Analytics - were 1,000,000 visits
    • EPMV is therefore $6,500/(1,000,000/1,000) = $6.50 EPMV
    $65.49/(4,869/1000) = $13.45

    Facebook is a great source of traffic, good luck in learning!
    There are plenty of posts about Facebook on BHW. You can check this post: 30-day challenge.
     
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