Link Building Through a 301

tony_d I don't really understand exactly what you're doing but if you're doing this for your local clients and just jumping a 301 from one site to another and so on and so forth I call shenanigans.
Once the buffer is moved, recrawled and G sees you're pointing it into another direction, your previous site will plummet.
There is no other explanation to it... buffer has 10k links built to it, you pass some link juice to site A and then decide to move buffer to site B... site A looses all the link juice and plummets....
but as I said idk if the rankings will remain for low EMS keywords or not.

I did an experiment with sub.domain.com with these scheme:

sub.domain.com -> site A
domain.com -> sub.domain.com

all 3 properties received a PR2 in the last update, without any link building to site A or domain.com directly.
after 301's were removed site A went down ~50 spots (100.000 EMS) while domain.com kept it's place in the SERP's for searches that sub.domain.com was ranking for.

I recommend anyone who wants to do stuff like this to try it on sites they afford to lose and to do extensive testing before they think they have the know how. I can't tell you whats in the JR. VIP thread but I can however paste here one of the methods I've tried and it worked:
 
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lmxftw said:
tony_d I don't really understand exactly what you're doing but if you're doing this for your local clients and just jumping a 301 from one site to another and so on and so forth I call shenanigans.
Once the buffer is moved, recrawled and G sees you're pointing it into another direction, your previous site will plummet.
Click to expand...

Indeed you miss the point entirely... I don't have SEO clients, I (mostly) have lead sites. I sell leads (form captures, phone calls, etc). All the sites I play 'shenanigans' with are my own sites, and I play shenanigans according to what sites I want to rank and when... and you are right that the previous site drops off, but you'd be surprised at how high it seems to keep ranking, for no apparent reason. Even pulling out ALL the 301'd power behind a site, it often sits around in the top 10 for a couple of months...
 
sorry tony. didn't mean to offend or anything... I was just trying to let everyone know that removing the 301 behind a site will make it drop in ranking.

You'd be amazed how many people just think that removing the links won't have any effect on their site :)

tony_d said:
Indeed you miss the point entirely... I don't have SEO clients, I (mostly) have lead sites. I sell leads (form captures, phone calls, etc). All the sites I play 'shenanigans' with are my own sites, and I play shenanigans according to what sites I want to rank and when... and you are right that the previous site drops off, but you'd be surprised at how high it seems to keep ranking, for no apparent reason. Even pulling out ALL the 301'd power behind a site, it often sits around in the top 10 for a couple of months...
Click to expand...
 
The 301 redirect will work until a better tweak on the algorithm will be applied.

As a side story, last month a client of mine received a ton of organic traffic (porn searches) due to 3 porn site redirects and now Google webmaster tools shows aprox. 5k referring domains when it previously had around 80-90 (local niche), 4 days later the traffic is gone (as well as the redirects), no targeted rankings were damaged whatsoever but I went and disavowed all the infringing domains just to be safe...

The best approach for 301 is to follow bigger brands strategies i.e. Coca Cola, HP, etc, they're building smaller websites (heavily promote them) and after a certain period they will redirect it to the main site, or a particular section of the main website.
 
lmxftw said:
sorry tony. didn't mean to offend or anything... I was just trying to let everyone know that removing the 301 behind a site will make it drop in ranking.

You'd be amazed how many people just think that removing the links won't have any effect on their site :)
Click to expand...

None taken :)
Indeed, those are the same people that then post asking why their site tanked, and wondering if an update is at hand...
 
I concur with Tony_ D same experiences and results.. and I've tested in the neighborhood of Gorang...
It's not an exact science guys..YMMV, and only play with what you're willing to lose...

ps- LOL @ tony_d location..
 
i had a domain that was ranking well and then got penalized from sape links and lost all rankings.
about month later i did 301 redirect from penalized domain to new site as a test to see if it could recover.
in only a few days the new site regained all the old rankings from penalized domain.
has been ranking well now for over 1 month which has me thinking maybe 301 can filter out the penalty.
 
Penalties do pass through 301's. It's just a matter of how long it takes. I think people are over analyzing what Tony is saying here. Redirecting the money site that eventually gets penalized is irrelevant. Most people are NOT doing it these days. What's he's doing is pointing all the 301's from one money site to a new money site every time the first money site gets slapped. Having a backup here is a great idea. Throwing away the money sites that also get penalized is a great idea. The whole thing looks like this:

Buy aged domains that have existing links OR buy new domains and build links to them -->
301's those domains to your money site -->
Rank and Make Money --->
Money site gets slapped -->
Adjust domains from step 1 and 2 and point them at a new money site -->
Rank and Make Money -->
Repeat over and over

The key to making the rankings last as long as possible to is to avoid 301'ing domains that have penalties. Building other links platforms to your money site is probably not a bad idea either, but I really don't know if the guys who use this in major money niches are even doing that.
 
rasta said:
i had a domain that was ranking well and then got penalized from sape links and lost all rankings.
about month later i did 301 redirect from penalized domain to new site as a test to see if it could recover.
in only a few days the new site regained all the old rankings from penalized domain.
has been ranking well now for over 1 month which has me thinking maybe 301 can filter out the penalty.
Click to expand...

How many sape links did you use? Do you only use sape lnks or mix with other kind of backlinks?

Cheers!
 
Porsche said:
How many sape links did you use? Do you only use sape lnks or mix with other kind of backlinks?

Cheers!
Click to expand...

I assume he had the links (SAPE) removed before the 301 was put in place. 301 looks at the ranking signals and not at the history of the website itself in my opinion. If the SAPE type links were already removed, since these are rented links it shouldn't be too hard to remove and waiting a few weeks for de-indexing (4 or so) and then the 301 was put in place you wouldn't get penalised.

If SAPE links are still present, and 301 was put in place, it's only a matter of time before the 301 redirect will pass the penalty. Not typically because of the 301 itself but because the same negative link juice that caused the penalty in the first place is being carried over, unless of course; the links have been removed.

@Lalalaenhund: Cheers bud. :)
 
wahabfun said:
It is not a safe practice for ranking a website
Click to expand...

You're right it isn't but it doesn't matter since he will continue making money if the site gets a penalty.

One question that I have is:

Why waste money on domains? Why not use subdomains?

Google does treat every sub domain as a separate site anyway.
 
Ninya said:
I assume he had the links (SAPE) removed before the 301 was put in place. 301 looks at the ranking signals and not at the history of the website itself in my opinion. If the SAPE type links were already removed, since these are rented links it shouldn't be too hard to remove and waiting a few weeks for de-indexing (4 or so) and then the 301 was put in place you wouldn't get penalised.

If SAPE links are still present, and 301 was put in place, it's only a matter of time before the 301 redirect will pass the penalty. Not typically because of the 301 itself but because the same negative link juice that caused the penalty in the first place is being carried over, unless of course; the links have been removed.

@Lalalaenhund: Cheers bud. :)
Click to expand...

Nope.. I don't mean that..

I wanna find out how much sape he blast to the domain before it got penalized.. I'm testing using sape onto my buffer sites to 301 redirect to moneysites.
 
minimo88 said:
You're right it isn't but it doesn't matter since he will continue making money if the site gets a penalty.

One question that I have is:

Why waste money on domains? Why not use subdomains?

Google does treat every sub domain as a separate site anyway.
Click to expand...

Sub domains are treated as separate sites? So there won't be any authority passed to them from the root domain?
 
Porsche said:
Nope.. I don't mean that..

I wanna find out how much sape he blast to the domain before it got penalized.. I'm testing using sape onto my buffer sites to 301 redirect to moneysites.
Click to expand...

I've got experience with this in the past, I had 100 SAPE links pointed to a domain. Manual penalty within 2 weeks. Granted this was during the major SAPE penalty slap that hit others as well. If the niche is profitable enough for a decent churn and burn in <2 weeks, why not?
 
Porsche said:
Sub domains are treated as separate sites? So there won't be any authority passed to them from the root domain?
Click to expand...
Not true. Domain Authority is carried to sub-domains. Unfortunately all the 301s would be coming from the same IP. Not sure if Google analyzes 301's relative to IP like they do links. I would assume not since any given site should only have one 301 pointing to it, but who knows.
 
Laubster said:
Buy aged domains that have existing links OR buy new domains and build links to them -->
301's those domains to your money site -->
Rank and Make Money --->
Money site gets slapped -->
Adjust domains from step 1 and 2 and point them at a new money site -->
Rank and Make Money -->
Repeat over and over
Click to expand...

This is exactly right.

Again - it's quite possibly not a perfect method, and I'm sure one day I'll 'wake up dead', but until then; thank you very much G :)
 
If you are using your private blog network to link to your money website then use it directly. Only use 301 if you are trying to filter spam or redirect the backlinks of a domain that you have acquired.
 
tony_d, you said that you build backlinks as a one-off, so there's never been an issue with velocity?
 
Interesting discussion! I've just started doing this.

Question: If your building all your links through a 301 and the money site gets penalized. Could the money site recover when you remove the 301? Cause technically there are no links that have been built to it directly.

Dumber question: If using domain address as the anchor, you would use the money site domain as the anchor text right?
 
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