How To Stop Worrying About Using PBN - PERMANENTLY

Some great tips there, thanks. Fewer is better and cost effective too I guess.

it's great, written in a nice manner, thanks a lot)

After reading for PBN's here on bhw, i got idea about that. I'm not experienced that much with PBN's but i've plan to start with it. Will give you example through other site.
So let's say i have site like viralnova, so have i. They have categories like entertainment, life, culture, science etc.
Then i think to make PBN'S "entertainment" , "Life", "Culture" .. etc.
Is this good ? Give me advice (English is not my native language but you'll understand me )

Thanks for this, it's something I have also been moving towards recently.
Out of interest @tiiberius what price ranges are you paying for something you find worth it lets say for instance the DR48 example?

So he is increasing his referring domains that point to his main website but he is talking about decreasing the amount to 5-10 and having quality over quantity. I don't really understand now. How is 200 more quality than 10-20? He actually says instead of 10-20 do 200. Maybe I don't fully understand the definition of a referring domain name?

sashilover said:

OP tells nothing, the point how do you identify if the domain is power or not, we can't rely on the RD of the expired domain, there must be something else to measure the power?

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There are a tonne of guides on here for that though. OP is just saying that the "power" domains are the ones you need to go for if you want long term results.

This is something I planned to do very soon. Although, you didn't go into details on how you hide your PBNs. Or no need for that when using different hosts? Or perhaps you create your sites as normal every day site?

SEO Maker said:

Got some points to start mate

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Try to save up enough money (like $1000) to acquire like 2-4 of these. 2-4 of these beats will alow you to rank for a few medium keywords.

These rankings should allow you to grow your capital further.

Rince & repeat.

fungames said:

Sorry, I have been out of the SEO game for like 10 years. What the heck are RD-s?

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Referring Domains

Most importantly unique number of referring domains which means each has a unique IP

Passiwe said:

After reading for PBN's here on bhw, i got idea about that. I'm not experienced that much with PBN's but i've plan to start with it. Will give you example through other site.
So let's say i have site like viralnova, so have i. They have categories like entertainment, life, culture, science etc.
Then i think to make PBN'S "entertainment" , "Life", "Culture" .. etc.
Is this good ? Give me advice (English is not my native language but you'll understand me )

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If the PBN site had those categories before you acquired it, it is actually very smart to take advantage of them and build upon them.

Ftr said:

Thanks for this, it's something I have also been moving towards recently.
Out of interest @tiiberius what price ranges are you paying for something you find worth it lets say for instance the DR48 example?

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Thank you. You're welcome.

Usually $300-500. Taking into account of course that DR represents real power and is not manipulated by spam.

fungames said:

So he is increasing his referring domains that point to his main website but he is talking about decreasing the amount to 5-10 and having quality over quantity. I don't really understand now. How is 200 more quality than 10-20? He actually says instead of 10-20 do 200. Maybe I don't fully understand the definition of a referring domain name?

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What I'm talking about is referring domains that point to PBN sites you actually work with.

Money site <- PBNsite <- referring domains

My point is to have low number of PBN sites with high number of referring domains.

T2tkid said:

This is something I planned to do very soon. Although, you didn't go into details on how you hide your PBNs. Or no need for that when using different hosts? Or perhaps you create your sites as normal every day site?

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When you really invest time into them it is possible that no hiding is necessary. True that.

I leave some of them wide open myself. Others, I hide with the typical methods you can find here on the forum.

I would build a network of such domains and sell links.

Hundreds of dollars, maybe thousands. That's the punch line right there

This is also the strategy I'm looking to pursue. Footprints by definition exist when there are common characteristics between sites linking to the money site. Reduce the number of PBNs and focus only on acquiring those with a high number of RDs, and the footprints disappear and the real cost of managing them as real sites reduces significantly.

My challenge is finding high RD domains that aren't spammed to death. I've been looking into those offered through the marketplace on BHW, but never quite bitten the bullet when perhaps I should have done. I need to find a source.

rocky12 said:

I would build a network of such domains and sell links.

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Funny you would mention that because that's one of the things I'm doing with the network

tarekezombie said:

Hundreds of dollars, maybe thousands. That's the punch line right there

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Yes, it is. But same rules apply as always. Have to be careful and thorough so you don't pay for spammed domain.

Unreliable Witness said:

This is also the strategy I'm looking to pursue. Footprints by definition exist when there are common characteristics between sites linking to the money site. Reduce the number of PBNs and focus only on acquiring those with a high number of RDs, and the footprints disappear and the real cost of managing them as real sites reduces significantly.

My challenge is finding high RD domains that aren't spammed to death. I've been looking into those offered through the marketplace on BHW, but never quite bitten the bullet when perhaps I should have done. I need to find a source.

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Exactly! I personally had great experience with TB solutions and some private vendors I found through private SEO Facebook groups. Also, starting to look at Flippa now (looks promising).

tiiberius said:

Funny you would mention that because that's one of the things I'm doing with the network

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I would like to sell the links as sponsored guest postings. I think it would be easier to earn around $500 per month from each site. I'll be trying to build the site in such way so that it would rank itself and then I would sell sponsored guest postings. It would great if we could connect togather via skypeby the way.

rocky12 said:

I would like to sell the links as sponsored guest postings. I think it would be easier to earn around $500 per month from each site. I'll be trying to build the site in such way so that it would rank itself and then I would sell sponsored guest postings. It would great if we could connect togather via skypeby the way.

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If you're selling sponsored guest postings, you're just operating a public (P)BN service like everyone else on here.

The downside is that you have to accept all sorts of anchor texts from clients, most likely unrelated to the original niche of the site. By accepting other posts, the niche of your site gets wider. What may have been a site on Nintendo RPGs gets stretched to Nintendo games, then just to games.

By creating a public blog network, you're also increasing the risk it will be found. Not because of what you do, but because of what your clients do. If they are using PBNs extensively, then a backlink analysis by Google of their site might lead to your site being audited. If 50% of the sites your site links to use PBNs, your site might be classed as a PBN by Google.

If you have a good product or service, it would be better to keep everything private, rather than trying to run a PBN side-service and possibly creating footprints.

Unreliable Witness said:

If you're selling sponsored guest postings, you're just operating a public (P)BN service like everyone else on here.

The downside is that you have to accept all sorts of anchor texts from clients, most likely unrelated to the original niche of the site. By accepting other posts, the niche of your site gets wider. What may have been a site on Nintendo RPGs gets stretched to Nintendo games, then just to games.

By creating a public blog network, you're also increasing the risk it will be found. Not because of what you do, but because of what your clients do. If they are using PBNs extensively, then a backlink analysis by Google of their site might lead to your site being audited. If 50% of the sites your site links to use PBNs, your site might be classed as a PBN by Google.

If you have a good product or service, it would be better to keep everything private, rather than trying to run a PBN side-service and possibly creating footprints.

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I've seen seller here openly giving their inventory of sites, then the how the whole network is private?

I think even if we follow possible steps , there are footprints which can be found very easily like homepage links etc.

I've also seen some reputed bloggers accepting guest post in lieu of money and never getting penalised.

What's your take on this?

ThopHayt said:

Taking a cheaper domain that's still clean and TREATING it like OP describes he treats his $500 domains will yield results as well. The domain is only one part, having quality hosting, good IP's, top quality content, fresh content... treating a PBN like a mini money site... these are IMPORTANT things. Just grabbing a $500 domain alone isn't enough.

-ThopHayt

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Precisely so, ThopHayt. This is why I think building mini-money sites, although a good strategy, is time consuming and expensive. The real logical solution is the use of real niche sites-- the sites that are already in there at this moment-- through guest posting which doesn't appear to have been paid.

For those of you that need to outsource niche outreach to a provider of repute, at $150-200 a post it's well worth the deal.

Cshark said:

Precisely so, ThopHayt. This is why I think building mini-money sites, although a good strategy, is time consuming and expensive. The real logical solution is the use of real niche sites-- the sites that are already in there at this moment-- through guest posting which doesn't appear to have been paid.

For those of you that need to outsource niche outreach to a provider of repute, at $150-200 a post it's well worth the deal.

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I'm extensively using guest posting at the moment. But I'm not sure it is always as cost effective as buying a good domain and setting it up as a PBN. It is, however, incredibly safe, and I can “set and forget”.

The maths below is greatly simplified (because I don't value things such as a greater number of IP addresses), but it might explain why I think very high quality PBNs are perhaps a way forwards.

$150 typically buys you a link on a DA25 site (a real one with high quality writing). The RD to OBL ratio might be 2:1 (2 times more incoming RD than OBL) if you are lucky. Usually it is much less. The owner of a real parenting blog won’t be link building extensively.

Compare that with a domain bought for $500 with another $500 spent on it. For such a domain, you would get hundreds of RDs with a number of OBLs that you control – say 20. Your ratio might be 20:1.

To match that, you’d have to buy 10 guest posts – as much as, or more than the cost of creating the PBN site.

Where it is more compelling for me is considering the quality of the RDs. If you spend $500 on a domain, you would expect to have RDs from high TF sites. Most guest blogs won’t have these (not if they are DA25 anyway). If you’re looking to pass trust as well as power, having your own PBN is likely to be an easier way to do this than guest posts (although you could be really selective of your guest posts).

I'm not saying guest posts are inferior necessarily. There is just a lot going for creating a few PBNs on really good domains.

rocky12 said:

I would like to sell the links as sponsored guest postings. I think it would be easier to earn around $500 per month from each site. I'll be trying to build the site in such way so that it would rank itself and then I would sell sponsored guest postings. It would great if we could connect togather via skypeby the way.

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That is a sound strategy but be very careful who you link to and how many of them.

What I mean is that if someone is using for example GSA SER to generate massive amounts of links, it is possible such site will trigger an off-page manual review. If your link is found among the mass links you might suffer along with the spam.

You want to link to only clean, non-spammed sites.

Cshark said:

Precisely so, ThopHayt. This is why I think building mini-money sites, although a good strategy, is time consuming and expensive. The real logical solution is the use of real niche sites-- the sites that are already in there at this moment-- through guest posting which doesn't appear to have been paid.

For those of you that need to outsource niche outreach to a provider of repute, at $150-200 a post it's well worth the deal.

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Both approaches work no doubt about that...

However, the golden path is usually in the middle as always.

For example, I own a few sites that are equivalent of sites my competitors buy guest posts on for $100-300.

Competitor's guest post is on the homepage only for a moment, link isn't visible on the homepage only on inner page and it rolls of to the oblivion in a few weeks.

Now compare it owning the site like that.... Link is visible on the homepage, never rolls off, and it's a sticky (or sidebar to appear more natural) at the top so it receives tons of traffic and perma link juice.

Now don't get me wrong, I still buy guest posts.

Just saying that 1-2 links like that can really make a difference.

rocky12 said:

I've seen seller here openly giving their inventory of sites, then the how the whole network is private?

I think even if we follow possible steps , there are footprints which can be found very easily like homepage links etc.

I've also seen some reputed bloggers accepting guest post in lieu of money and never getting penalised.

What's your take on this?

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Was this inventory for their PBN or for guest blog posting ?

Once your PBNs are open to the public, then they're no longer a Private blog network, but you're going back to the old public blog networks, which got smashed by Google a few years back and a huge amount of sites were hit as the networks lost all link juice.

Competitors would just report these networks to Google, a swift and easy way to rid competition.

People still confuse what is a private and a public network, it seems.

MisterF said:

Was this inventory for their PBN or for guest blog posting ?

Once your PBNs are open to the public, then they're no longer a Private blog network, but you're going back to the old public blog networks, which got smashed by Google a few years back and a huge amount of sites were hit as the networks lost all link juice.

Competitors would just report these networks to Google, a swift and easy way to rid competition.

People still confuse what is a private and a public network, it seems.

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I get what you're saying.

But still people are buying these types of links, right?