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Google Dance? Really?

Discussion in 'White Hat SEO' started by codeman1234, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. codeman1234

    codeman1234 Power Member

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    Hello,


    I got a mate of mine that has contract an outsource company to make the SEO, the company is from US and he is in Portugal, the thing is that the company sends him screenshots of the keywords they are positionaning for him on Google Portugal (google.pt) and they are show on the 7 page of Google ranking 76 to be exact, but when he checks it out like two hours later or something those same words appear to him on the page 53 position 536 to be exact or even more in some cases does not appear on raking. The company says that is supposly for something called Google Dance, really? is that true at all? Because for me it does not make any sense how in 2 hours or less the ranking can change from position 53 to 536, It makes sense that your ranking changes maybe 20 positions up or down but, 500 seems to much for me.

    Can someone please explain me what is happenning because my friend its been with this company doing SEO for 3 months and he is feeling really rip off and I would like to explain him what is really going on.

    Cheers!
     
  2. BHopkins

    BHopkins Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Google has multiple datacenters around the world. Sometimes these datacenters will display different data to different IP addresses.

    Page 7 or page 53, who cares, he's not getting any traffic either way.
     
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  3. bizarre

    bizarre Newbie

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    He is getting ripped off, they are most likely sending screen shots of personalized results. Also rankings don't make money, unless hes getting more traffic what have they really done anyways?
     
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  4. codeman1234

    codeman1234 Power Member

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    Hello,

    he cares because he is paying to his rank to go up gradually! and losing 50 pages of ranking it is not growing gradually!!
     
  5. codeman1234

    codeman1234 Power Member

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    What you mean screenshots of personalized results? Photoshop? In his business ranking does makes money that is why is so competitive.
     
  6. codeman1234

    codeman1234 Power Member

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    So, what you guys think is the reason? photoshop? is not any other more technical reason for his random ranking changes?

    Cheers!
     
  7. testdrive

    testdrive Regular Member

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    If you are asking if the term "google dance" exist, the answer is, It Does, and it is actually an SEO Term.
    Now, Does your site is doing the "google dance"? Answer is, maybe yes, maybe not. I cannot stress this enough that SEO is a very complicated thing. There will many members here that will give answer to your question, but all of this are just personal opinions (although some opinions weighs more and more reliable, depending upon the experience of the member).

    My opinion:
    Rankings of a site, has so many factors to consider: age, authority, domain name, onsite and offsite SEO is an example of these factors. Anyway, from my experience, a site is prone to a google dance (does not necessarily apply to all) if it suddenly receive backlinks. Sometimes it jumped all over the place, now you see it in 1st page, then suddenly on 2nd, then completely off the map. And from my experience google dance is more on the good thing, because when it bounce back it will be stronger.

    Now do this to know if your site is in a dance or in a penalty: Copy paste the first paragraph of your site and search it in google. if the first result is your site, then it is just a dance, if the first result is not your site, then you are in the penalty.
     
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  8. bizarre

    bizarre Newbie

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    Personalized results - Google will identify sites you like or visit often through their serps. So if you like a site they will appear for a lot more search terms then they would otherwise but only to you - linked through your google sign in info.

    The reason I am pretty sure its not a dance is because lately dances are relatively small, not large movements. The easy way to check honestly is wait another day - I am guess your friends site will be in a similar place.
     
  9. codeman1234

    codeman1234 Power Member

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    Hello Everyone,

    First of all I just want to thank everyone for the replies and trying to help out! But at the end BHopkins was right is because of the IP address are in different countries so the results Google Displays are different!!

    I just tryed to make a search of the keyword that I mention before and I got a proxy with an american US IP Address and the result is what the company said the keyword appears on position 53 and I tried with another keyword to make sure and yes it's right!!

    So, these results are different because of Google's datacenters like BHopkins saids? If so, how can a company from another country do SEO for companies from other country? Is it ilegal by Google or what?

    What solution I can give my friend to tell this company to do, since it looks that they are positioning keywords for people that access Google.pt but from outside of Portugal, how come they are not positioning for people in Portugal?



    Cheers!!
     
  10. politico

    politico Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Yes it's likely because of IP, but could also have to do with a number of other factors (personalization, etc.). The best way I've found to do international SEO is to buy a VPN service (like HideMyAss) which has proxies in several different countries, and building links using Portuguese proxies, for example. And also getting links from websites that are hosted and originate in Portugal.
     
  11. codeman1234

    codeman1234 Power Member

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    That is exactly what I did, and tried all keywords my friend is paying and all of them are ranked in the position the US company was saying, they weren't lying, now the thing I want to know is how long is going to take to people with Ip's on Portugal to see the same results? Anyone please?

    Cheers!
     
  12. NoobGuru

    NoobGuru BANNED BANNED

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    There should a thread that opens up everyday with a poll "Google dance today?" Yes ,No, Maybe.
    Since there seems to be a thread on this every single day!
     
  13. Scritty

    Scritty Elite Member Premium Member

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    • Google dance exists
    • Ranking in 2012 can take a lot longer for competitive terms than it did 2 or 3 years ago
    • Any SEO camapign for a competitive term that you don't give at least 4 months to work = you might not see the benefit
    • Most people buying SEO services think THEY are the expert because of some outdated crap they were told by a bloke with a website down the pub.
    • Safe ranking = slower ranking than before
    • Burst linking = likely to get temporary results
    • Googles results as well as their datacentres mean that personalized results are common to just about everyone. They will give you different results depending on your local datacentre, the Google you are using (.com.. pt, .co.uk ....all different results) your search history, your browser cache, whether you are logged into Webmaster tools or not ...

    Client based SEO for people who try and double guess you or want instant results is a F*CKING PAIN IN THE ASS.

    That's why I ditched most of my clients last year. I make 30% less cash, (but recoving to full speed every month) but have 95% less hassle.

    SEO is a black box "dark art" no-one knows how Google works, no-one can promise results, and if you are an honest SEO guy you tell your clients that up front.
    But then you lose clients to liars who claim they can "guarantee" results.
    Or you tell clients but they start asking why they aren't number 1 for a big competition phrase after 6 weeks.

    End of the day a site that ranks high for a competitive phrase is almost a licence to print money..FREE MONEY
    It's like offering your clients the possibility of a massive high street shop to sell their merchandise in. Right on the footpath of the exact customers who want their stuff, and not just locally but from 2.4 billion internet users around the world. The opportunity to make (in many cases) millions a year for a piffling marketing fee and a couple of hundred a year for domain name reg and hosting

    And they go "But do I have to pay £600 a month for 12 months to get these millions then?...Hmm I'm not so sure - I want it now - bloke down the pub told me [insert some rancid SEO generic crap that will get his or her site slapped stupid that some retard he met told him back in 2009]"

    It's like...

    Like "Here's the keys to sell as much of your stuff as you can get out of the door to the exact market who want it, and you're moaning about a few grand "set up"costs"?

    Get a life - or better still - just F^CK OFF and I'll make the money for myself.

    Can you tell I don't like client based SEO :)

    /rant off

    :) smiley again...just for good karma.


    Scritty
     
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  14. SEO_Alchemy

    SEO_Alchemy Senior Member

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    Google Dance is most certainly a Real Phenomenon,

    But a 500 plus drop is more likely a serious issue/perhaps penalty. If it's all/most keywords affected I would lean towards penalty. I agree with everything that Scritty has just said about client based SEO. I do it myself. However, any company/individual that gets your site penalized does not deserve your business. Give it 2 weeks... if rankings do not improve ditch the company, look for more reputable services, and contact Google for advise on removing your penalty.
     
  15. natewex

    natewex Power Member

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    I tried a new link package from the BST from a VERY reputable seller (will not name as yet) and service provider. After the links were built ALL my SERPS have disappeared even for long tail KWs that I didnt even target in the campaign -- seems like its dead in the water for whatever reason (no other links built to site, non-emd, 40+ articles of unique content).

    Penalty?
     
  16. SEO_Alchemy

    SEO_Alchemy Senior Member

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    I don't want to step on anyone's toes. But for your benefit, in my experience if all keywords are dropped out of existence i.e. 500+ spots into the Ether, it is most likely penalty. Having said that, don't jump ship for at least a few weeks. Algo's and how google handles rankings shifts, change all the time. Nothing is set in stone. If after few weeks rankings are not there for any keywords, and you value your site you can contact google for advice. Claim total ignorance of what was being done to your site, and maybe they will give you a second chance (I personally hate the fuckers). But the best advise I can give you, is if nothing happens within the next few weeks, its time to start building a new site, or better yet new sites. The time and resources you would spend trying to recover from penalty will vastly be greater than the time it would take you to build new properties.... and that's straight up from personal experience. Plus there is always the chance that the penalty is temporary, and one beautiful day you will check rankings and there it is back ranking (happens), but don't bank on it, and don't waste time waiting on it.
     
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  17. codeman1234

    codeman1234 Power Member

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    Hello SEO_Alchemy,

    if it is a penalty from Google as you said, is there any way I can check that is true so, I can be 100% sure, because I just went with my mate to his Webmaster Tools and there is no messages or errors saying that the site is penalize by Google, how can I be sure?


    Cheers!
     
  18. SEO_Alchemy

    SEO_Alchemy Senior Member

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    They don't send you a nice letter explaining what they did and why they did it..... :) Though that would be nice of them. Well I guess they do that for "Unnatural Link Building", but there's many many slaps and penalties you can potentially trigger. You know you are hit with a penalty when every single one of your keywords is gone from search results (not completely, but outside say 500+) and there is no sign of ANY movement on them no matter what you do. If some keywords are ranking while others have been dropped, then its google dancing and ranking adjustments are being made, so proceed as before. If all are dropped like bricks, put up some fresh content, wait a week or two, then contact via Webmaster Tools and hope for the best. and then seriously leave the site alone. If it converts well for you guys, send paid traffic to it, SEO is not an option until/if the penalty is removed. Some say build more links, yada yada yada. I've been there, done that. A peanalized site is not going anywhere unless the "nice" manual review team at google decides they like you today, or its temporary and enough time has passed and the penalty has been lifted.

    Sorry codeman, if it really is a penalty it sucks, and either find different traffic and wait and hope that penalty will eventually be lifted, and/or build new properties to promote with SEO.
     
  19. ktkts

    ktkts Newbie

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    wow how can seoers do that?
     
  20. back2form

    back2form Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    What do you mean by this ?