Blackhat Hiring Experiment

So I guess my close friends who own staffing agencies and have been involved in the jjob market for decades are completely wrong about the job market during a recession. Please. Companies DO go out of business and you COULD find a gem in the shit if you look hard and long enough. My point was during lean times, companies layoff their non producing staff aka the bottom 10-20%. Companies go bust all the time, but those people make up a very small percentage of the talent pool.

Selling seo and web design in the mid 00s was like shooting fish in a barrel. The landscape has changed considerably and prospects are extremely wary of anyone that promises google rankings over the phone. It's 50x harder these days.

mudbutt said:

So I guess my close friends who own staffing agencies and have been involved in the jjob market for decades are completely wrong about the job market during a recession. Please.

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That's a very weak response.

mudbutt said:

Why are you so upset over this? You're trying awfully hard to be right.

You're basically just saying that there's hardly any good employees out there and all the good ones are taken. That's a damn bleak outlook. We may as well all just give up, go home and forget trying to run companies since there's no one left to hire.

There's always huge amounts of talented staff out there. I know from personal experience, so I won't be giving up and going home. I'll be continuing to grow my business with talented staff.

mudbutt said:

Selling seo and web design in the mid 00s was like shooting fish in a barrel. The landscape has changed considerably and prospects are extremely wary of anyone that promises google rankings over the phone. It's 50x harder these days.

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Why are you trying so hard to put me off? I'm not some wet around the ears kid dreaming about his first business. I've got a decade of business and management experience.

Also, have you even read anything I've said? I'm not selling any SEO services. I'm selling mobile web sites and I've already got customers and contacts, and I've not even finished the business plan or started the official sales campaign yet.

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BlueTurtle said:

That's a very weak response.



Why are you so upset over this? You're trying awfully hard to be right.

You're basically just saying that there's hardly any good employees out there and all the good ones are taken. That's a damn bleak outlook. We may as well all just give up, go home and forget trying to run companies since there's no one left to hire.

There's always huge amounts of talented staff out there. I know from personal experience, so I won't be giving up and going home. I'll be continuing to grow my business with talented staff.

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I'm not upset in the slightest. Why are you so argumentative? Why does it have to be about "winning"? Are you Kickflip? I was just sharing my real world experiences. Whether you believe it or not it doesn't effect me one bit. I'm not saying there are no good people left to hire. I was just clarifying the myth that the market is flooded with talent. Big difference.

I wasn't even directing my responses to you. It was to the OP. You need to get over yourself

I would like to add, one mans trash is another mans treasure. I have taken on some so called "cast offs" that just needed training and nurturing. For instance with the method OP wants to implement if he doesn't lad a true blue superstar desperate for a job they likely will not succeed. On the other hand if he takes time to develop someone he might find that an "underperformer" from another company turns out to be a diamond in the rough. Attitude is one of the most important factors to me, with the right attitude and work ethic I feel I can train them to be productive.

I have had the extreme pleasure of working with people that others have discarded that have risen up the ranks into management themselves and are amongst the highest producers in their locations to this day.

Finally if you cannot find a good hire with 10% unemployment, how can you find a good hire with 4% unemployment especially with a straight commission job with no safety net, likely no benefits or expense budget.

mudbutt said:

I'm not upset in the slightest. Why are you so argumentative?

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How am I argumentative? I'm only responding to you.

mudbutt said:

Are you Kickflip?

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Why are you getting personal? I haven't made a single personal attack against you.

mudbutt said:

I was just sharing my real world experiences.

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And I'm only responding. You're upset that I'm disagreeing with your real world experiences. I only pointed out that I'm not new to this as you've hinted at a few times.

mudbutt said:

Whether you believe it or not it doesn't effect me one bit.

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Why would you even say that? You're taking this *way* too personally.

mudbutt said:

I'm not saying there are no good people left to hire. I was just clarifying the myth that the market is flooded with talent. Big difference.

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I never said it was 'flooded' with talent, but there's more talent today than there was before the recession. I'm entitled to my opinion.

mudbutt said:

I wasn't even directing my responses to you. It was to the OP. You need to get over yourself

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Relax. I'm not upset with you. You're just taking it a bit personally because I said you were being a bit negative and because I strongly disagree. I've taken issue with your opinion, not you personally.

You're right, I am taking it a bit too personally. My tolerance for bullshit wannabe "biz owners lulz" has been pretty low lately. Apologies!

Hiring good sales people would be always difficult for you because most of them will do a bit of verification about your product and the company. And the method seem to be flawed to me because you simply can't cover up forever to your employees, that too especially the sales people and it won't do any good for long term plan. And most probably you'll end up with hiring not-so-good sales guys, which hampers your business plans.

If you want to make it big, it's better to be transparent with your employees you hire as they are the foremost thing in your business, not your product as you think.

mudbutt said:

You're right, I am taking it a bit too personally. My tolerance for bullshit wannabe "biz owners lulz" has been pretty low lately. Apologies!

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What's with the constant attacks? What have I done to you other than disagree with you?

You've done nothing but boast and try to make out you're some big shot by putting others down. I'm sure you do run a business and do ok, but in my experience people who are full of hate have a lot of day to day problems. You went out your way to convince me that my plan is a waste of time and then started personally attacking me when I disagreed. That's not the actions of a wealthy and successful entrepreneur.

That's the last I'll say. I don't want to engage in this negative crap with you. I don't have the time for it and it's a total waste of my energy.

No hard feelings. Have a good day.

Funny, my first response in which you disagreed with was directed at the OP. Once again, get over yourself. It wasn't about you or your plan! Relax bud!

mudbutt said:

Funny, my first response in which you disagreed with was directed at the OP. Once again, get over yourself. It wasn't about you or your plan! Relax bud!

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Ok, no problem.

OK, so now that we've got that little pissing match out of the way... I'm glad to have created an interesting thread, at the very least for y'all. I agree, 90% or maybe 99% of the posters on this board and all others will never get their asses in gear, and do things properly. Stars in their eyes as it were. I haven't posted much in the past on this board, because I really haven't had much to say that I thought would be useful. I hope to change that in this thread.

I'll keep my background out of this, because I'm trying to do this like anyone with no backing and lots of time would do it. I also threw in the thongs in Miami thing to keep people interested. My goal is to use the concepts presented in these books and WSOs, and see what kind of results can be had from scratch.

Things I'm providing for my reps:

- a private forum
- a crm system
- an 800 number to forward to their cell phones
- proven models for contacting leads. Among other things, I've worked up a modified version of 7878's letter for our reps, based on our service offerings.

Things my reps would like me to provide:

- glossy leave-behinds
- a case study or two.

Also in the works:
- a powerpoint presentation, and a print-out version.

As I have no clients right now, I'll be flying by the seat of my pants for a while. I also plan to call up all my business owner friends and get them on a guinea pig program. As long as they pay for hard costs, the experience of having them as clients will be well worth the lost profits.

7878 said:

Here's my advice to you - spend some time combing through some of the offilne marketing information that ISN'T crammed into a $7, "ground-breaking" PDF that claims to have the magic method that will make you rich overnight. Guys like John Durham, Nick Ferrara (total assclown rehash artist), Jay Kanigan, blah blah... all make money by teaching what they cannot do. I've read his stuff, the majority of it is downright laughable. This strategy looks good on paper but will fail to translate to practice, trust me.

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Well, hopefully your advice is better than those of the assclowns - if it is, I'll have a nice juicy check in the mail for you in a few months. Credit where credit is due.

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I like the thread and I wish you guys the best of luck with hiring sales people and hope they work out.

Just want to give my input in that your business model isn't going to prove very successful unless you do something that 99% of others haven't.

Just like how there are so many fly by night SEO services out there that can't provide quality service and end up hurting businesses instead, there are a ton of businesses trying to hire sales people on a commission based structure. If you look at CL and Backpage there are so many posts looking for sales people and most have heard the same BS over and over and some have even tried selling and didn't work out.

Also, if you really want to find someone I would suggest offering a small base pay, like $500 per month or something just to give a cushion because I guarantee after the first 100-200 calls and not getting a single lead, they are going to get discouraged fast and quit unless you give them a solid reason to stay. If you can't afford that small amount for a sales rep, you shouldn't be hiring them in the first place as you haven't proven your business model and sold the services yourself.

dexter said:

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Any chance we could see the ad that you used to get those results? thanks for the thread BTW, im looking to do the same type of thing soon.

BlueTurtle said:

Teaching sales isn't really a hugely time consuming endeavor to begin with though. It's not like teaching someone to design sites. Most of the learning will happen when the person is on the phone with people and I'll be there to discuss the conversations, answer questions and give feedback, essentially keeping the bike straight, but not doing the pedaling.

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Eh?

I can't say I agree with that statement whatsoever. It's infinitely easier to teach a technical skill which requires memory and repetition than it is to teach something that is largely instinctual. Can you teach any schmo to sell coats at the north pole? Sure. But teaching someone to sell on a high level is a much different story.

7878 said:

Eh?

I can't say I agree with that statement whatsoever. It's infinitely easier to teach a technical skill which requires memory and repetition than it is to teach something that is largely instinctual. Can you teach any schmo to sell coats at the north pole? Sure. But teaching someone to sell on a high level is a much different story.

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7878 said:

something that is largely instinctual.

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And this is the answer as to why it's not time consuming.

The goal isn't to teach just anyone to sell. It's to pick the people who have the most potential and guide them, but because it is a natural, instinctual thing there's not that much to teach. It's more of nurturing than teaching. I show them how to find good leads, the key selling points, some important do's and don'ts on the phone etc. Someone who's got the instinct will be able to do well with the guidance, but someone who can't sell would need more than just training, they would either have to give up or open up the part of themselves that has the ability to sell.

That's why I said above I see one of the most important parts about as identifying the people with potential very early on. That's going to be the make or break. Failure to identify people with potential means I waste time.