BHW, protect buyers!

[veco888]

I'm long time silent member of BHW, many times used marketplace...
One thing I noticed that sellers are those who're protected here, not buyers, which should be total opposite IMO.
One service (in top 3 in its section) that i'm waiting for has many negative replies lately, but no one is taking action.
I'm waiting for basic info that is needed for it to start for 15+ days, seller is not responding to Skype either, as other members stated as well. Lets not stick to this OP only...
In general, majority of sellers I have tried are at first nice and friendly, as soon transaction is done, they're hard to talk and give info, sometimes even rude.
About marketplace thread approval thing, of course they'll serve top notch product to staff member, but what later? Have you thought of anonymously testing sellers as time pass?
Many of them are offering discounts and extra service as soon as you made the deal, just for a positive review.
Buyers, don't sell yourself, test the service and give an honest review, keep community clean if it's meant to be!?

 

[Wilson Grant Fisk]

When Admin/Mods are made aware of a problem they will investigate.
Use the Report Button or contact Support if you have a problem.
http://www.blackhatworld.com/misc/contact

 

[RuthSam]

You can always open an thread in the SHITLIST usually I find the MODs to take care of all of it there and they seem to be fair.

 

[davids355]

Mods and admins are more than fair and I think everyone here is treated equally.

If you have s problem and you cannot resolve it between yourself and the buyer then contact mod or open a shitlist and the case will be examined and concluded fairly and in public view.

 

[veco888]

I searched for 'shit list' thread just before opening this one, but somehow missed it. Thanks for your replies guys, time will show how some of those 'toxic' services will be treated.

 

[SilverKnight]

I think the OP is not criticizing the forum staff. But suggesting that there should be some form of monitoring of the BST sellers. There has been something on my mind too lately. There are quite a few sellers who are advertising their services as 'become a millionaire' or 'start making thousands of $$$'. While experienced members know that that is not possible easily, most newbies (people who are just starting out in IM) may fall for that thinking that they have actually found a goldmine when it is not true. Just my two cents.

 

[Wilson Grant Fisk]

I think the OP is not criticizing the forum staff. But suggesting that there should be some form of monitoring of the BST sellers. There has been something on my mind too lately. There are quite a few sellers who are advertising their services as 'become a millionaire' or 'start making thousands of $$$'. While experienced members know that that is not possible easily, most newbies (people who are just starting out in IM) may fall for that thinking that they have actually found a goldmine when it is not true. Just my two cents.

AFAIK, Mods are working on it.
@I know SEO and @Apricot tend to be much tougher on new sales threads so things are improving and they are getting to the old threads when they can.

 

[veco888]

I think the OP is not criticizing the forum staff. But suggesting that there should be some form of monitoring of the BST sellers. There has been something on my mind too lately. There are quite a few sellers who are advertising their services as 'become a millionaire' or 'start making thousands of $$$'. While experienced members know that that is not possible easily, most newbies (people who are just starting out in IM) may fall for that thinking that they have actually found a goldmine when it is not true. Just my two cents.

Yeah, that was my point, i'm not criticizing at all, just trying to open people's eyes.

Why would newcomers to IM burn themselves at start or gain negative picture of forum (which is not) cause of some misleading title made by moneytaker? I think it could be prevented by rigorous measures and those measures would maintain quality.

 

[veco888]

Maybe i'm typing too much, but since this is feedback and suggestion forum... few things that I noticed are coming on my mind.
Constant bumping of sales threads by order number (which are oftenly forced/begged by seller), multiple posting of same discount promotions, multiple posting of misleading payment proofs by same users, misleading titles as already said, misleading prices, no guarantee of any kind in majority of threads, yet majority (all) stand for their services like they're bulletproof, yet majority of them can't take critic although they can't give guarantee of any kind... and what's fascinating most of all, people really are sheep, when they see sea of positive replies, even if it's not working for them, they'll not post their neutral or negative results, cause probably state of mind is "I'm just unlucky, look at all of those guys". Buyers, be honest, it's your money.

 

[BHW-News]

Most of the sellers are pretty good and will compete fairly. I'm aware there's a few sellers who'll make their buyers jump through hoops to promote their services and this is something we're working on to improve.

I know this is hard to believe but we're humans, so we can't (and won't ever) monitor every single sales thread, every post, every PM to make sure people are following the rules. Therefore, if you see something dodgy going on, please report it. There are report links under every single post over the forum, links to a contact form in the footer and you can always submit a ticket to [email protected] / support.blackhatworld.com

We're cracking down on fake reviews at the moment but the amount of cross-referencing and proof required is time-consuming so each sweep can take a little while but it's always going on in the background.

Another nasty little trick that bugs me is when I get buyers ask me to delete their review "because it got resolved" but then find out that they've been blackmailed into requesting this by the seller holding their refund hostage. If this happens to anyone reading it, please report it. We want reviews to provide an accurate reflection of the seller's customer service. Coincidentally, there's a lot of crossover between the sellers that do this and the sellers that use fake reviews. These people WILL be dealt with.

We do NOT protect sellers at the expense of buyers, EVER. Yes, some of our sellers spend a huge amount of money on advertising on the site but there are still times when I've had to reject their services or ban them for underhand tactics. Never once have I been asked to let something dodgy slide and, on a couple of occasions, I've been told off for bring too lenient or missing something that needed rejecting.

If we did protect bad sellers then people will stop buying services. Then the sellers won't want to advertise their services here and, eventually, we're left with no marketplace. Members would have to start trawling through the "guru" section of unnamed forums, paying $300 for useless guides packed with affiliate links telling them basic information on how to make $10 per day on the internet.

*and breathe*

Sorry, rant over. This thing about us protecting sellers comes up so much but I don't see reports being submitted by the people complaining. If you're angry about something, why not help us fix it?

 

[veco888]

Most of the sellers are pretty good and will compete fairly. I'm aware there's a few sellers who'll make their buyers jump through hoops to promote their services and this is something we're working on to improve.

I know this is hard to believe but we're humans, so we can't (and won't ever) monitor every single sales thread, every post, every PM to make sure people are following the rules. Therefore, if you see something dodgy going on, please report it. There are report links under every single post over the forum, links to a contact form in the footer and you can always submit a ticket to [email protected] / support.blackhatworld.com

We're cracking down on fake reviews at the moment but the amount of cross-referencing and proof required is time-consuming so each sweep can take a little while but it's always going on in the background.

Another nasty little trick that bugs me is when I get buyers ask me to delete their review "because it got resolved" but then find out that they've been blackmailed into requesting this by the seller holding their refund hostage. If this happens to anyone reading it, please report it. We want reviews to provide an accurate reflection of the seller's customer service. Coincidentally, there's a lot of crossover between the sellers that do this and the sellers that use fake reviews. These people WILL be dealt with.

We do NOT protect sellers at the expense of buyers, EVER. Yes, some of our sellers spend a huge amount of money on advertising on the site but there are still times when I've had to reject their services or ban them for underhand tactics. Never once have I been asked to let something dodgy slide and, on a couple of occasions, I've been told off for bring too lenient or missing something that needed rejecting.

If we did protect bad sellers then people will stop buying services. Then the sellers won't want to advertise their services here and, eventually, we're left with no marketplace. Members would have to start trawling through the "guru" section of unnamed forums, paying $300 for useless guides packed with affiliate links telling them basic information on how to make $10 per day on the internet.

*and breathe*

Sorry, rant over. This thing about us protecting sellers comes up so much but I don't see reports being submitted by the people complaining. If you're angry about something, why not help us fix it?

First, thanks for detailed answer.
You confirmed my doubts when it comes to people not complaining, yeah, community needs to step up and 'cure' itself, not be a sheep since not everything is positive.
One thing that could boost marketplace quality on consistent basis would be periodically checking services, anonymously (by staff), which shouldn't take much time. Priority to services that are reported and such... when caught, act rigorous.
Small things can make big difference.
As we all should start from ourselves, from now on, I will report those 'moneytakers'.

 

[jimbobo2779]

As others have said, if you have an issue with the way someone is running their BST you can post a shitty review, report or even shitlist. I am not saying this should be the first port of call as you should always at least attempt to contact them but if you already have and cannot find a satisfactory deal then there are other options available to you.

 

[100 Trials]

One thing I think I'd like to see regarding this issue is maybe some sort of reward/bounty system for exposing scammers. This would only work if BHW implemented some sort of on-site transaction system, though. Force sellers to receive payments through the site and only let them withdraw the money 7 days after the transaction has been completed and approved by both parties, etc. So basically, the site would have to drastically change in order for any implementation of protection to be possible.

 

[veco888]

As others have said, if you have an issue with the way someone is running their BST you can post a shitty review, report or even shitlist. I am not saying this should be the first port of call as you should always at least attempt to contact them but if you already have and cannot find a satisfactory deal then there are other options available to you.

I was talking more in general, than for myself, I will report from now on. Community involvement is mandatory to keep it clean, but firm hand from staff as well. Usually it's too late once you figured out that you got yourself burnt.

One thing I think I'd like to see regarding this issue is maybe some sort of reward/bounty system for exposing scammers. This would only work if BHW implemented some sort of on-site transaction system, though. Force sellers to receive payments through the site and only let them withdraw the money 7 days after the transaction has been completed and approved by both parties, etc. So basically, the site would have to drastically change in order for any implementation of protection to be possible.

That would be perfect case scenario. Agree.

 

[jimbobo2779]

One thing I think I'd like to see regarding this issue is maybe some sort of reward/bounty system for exposing scammers. This would only work if BHW implemented some sort of on-site transaction system, though. Force sellers to receive payments through the site and only let them withdraw the money 7 days after the transaction has been completed and approved by both parties, etc. So basically, the site would have to drastically change in order for any implementation of protection to be possible.

As one of the many reliable sellers on BHW I hope they never go the WF route and force everyone to accept payments through them. Paypal and credit cards both offer buyers protections and you have to be quite foolish to lose money and have no recourse for getting it back.

There are relatively few truly shit sellers on BHW and those that are providing an awful service do tend to get the thread closed after just a few bad reports until any issues are sorted. If you are concerned that the service / product you are interested in may not be very good then look for the recent posts in the thread, if you see complaints you will also likely see how the seller deals with it which will tell you a lot about the seller and their service. If you see a lot of complaints that will say a lot.

 

[RuthSam]

Paypal and credit cards both offer buyers protections and you have to be quite foolish to lose money and have no recourse for getting it back.

Well, not always, I have a perfect example about how you can lose your money with PayPal to a shady seller here on BHW! So any improvement to protect both the seller and the buyer will only make it better for the BHW members.

I have been in touch with some of the buyer's that try to blackmail but I give a Shit of them and ignore their BS. I always post what I think about a BST which sometimes makes it difficult for me to get a review copy lol

 

[veco888]

It's not about directly getting scammed, but BHW could reverse transaction in no time if sellers didn't meet the TAT for example, which is very often. Sellers are so laid back when it comes to it.

 

[drogon]

Shouldn't the sellers with Fake reviews get banned?

 

[BHW-News]

Shouldn't the sellers with Fake reviews get banned?

Yes. This is happening.

 

[BassTrackerBoats]

One thing I think I'd like to see regarding this issue is maybe some sort of reward/bounty system for exposing scammers.

The reward is that you are keeping a forum where you learn, share, buy and sell clean so that it is a place you want to go to as well as a place for others to congregate.

It is not unlike going to the grocery store to buy milk, seeing a guy robbing the store and you calling the police.

As a community it makes all the sense in the world to help keep it clean as the better the forum is, the more we all gain from it.