Guys: Kindle is the Ticket!
- Thread starter GobBluthJD
- Start date
It's very hit or miss, based on the people I've spoken with. If your book is popular enough from day one, then it will make more than the average fiction book right off the bat. If it's not, then its sales apparently tank after the end of the first week due to how Amazon is tougher on that niche compared to others. I know of one author who has well over 200 books, but only makes $400 month. Meanwhile, I know of another who has 30 books and makes $5,000/month during the slowest parts of the year. I wouldn't recommend this niche unless writing them is already a hobby of yours. Outsourcing their creation doesn't sound like a profitable venture unless you get lucky.
NemoTheOne
Power Member
- May 18, 2009
- 735
- 248
Well, since this thread did it for me, just an update.
I flopped with Fiction, but I seem do have hit it on non fiction.
I have about 12 books out now (Counting just NF) and seem to be hitting the 15-19 sales per day mark. My highest as been 19 in a day. I seemed to have found my niche(s)
I created websites for 2 'authors', with mailchimp but I don't see them having a real impact, or generating much of a list. Maybe with time?
I outsource the majority of the writing. Saves time and allows me to keep going.
I guess now, the "question" (although this is more like a statement) is, what's next?
Just continue?
Scale up?
Rewrite the successful books over and over again?
Also -
Do you spend money on like marketing, adwords, book lists etc. Books seem to do fine on their own, with good keywords, desc, content - like everyone has said - but I'm wondering if there's anything I'm missing.
I flopped with Fiction, but I seem do have hit it on non fiction.
I have about 12 books out now (Counting just NF) and seem to be hitting the 15-19 sales per day mark. My highest as been 19 in a day. I seemed to have found my niche(s)
I created websites for 2 'authors', with mailchimp but I don't see them having a real impact, or generating much of a list. Maybe with time?
I outsource the majority of the writing. Saves time and allows me to keep going.
I guess now, the "question" (although this is more like a statement) is, what's next?
Just continue?
Scale up?
Rewrite the successful books over and over again?
Also -
Do you spend money on like marketing, adwords, book lists etc. Books seem to do fine on their own, with good keywords, desc, content - like everyone has said - but I'm wondering if there's anything I'm missing.
Pinger030
Regular Member
- Oct 15, 2013
- 304
- 379
Focus on your most successful niche and try to dominate your niche with more books. Don't rewrite your book again and again to spam the market. You have to dominate your niche with quality not with quantity. Funnel the traffic of your books to your website. Remeber: People have already bought your products so they are willing to pay for information in this topic. This is very powerful traffic and you can not compare it with random traffic of search engines or traffic from Google Adwords, Facebook and so on. Create a free giveaway and offer it to your customers in exchange of their email adresses. Now if you dominate the niche think about what you can sell on your website. Maybe an ebook or video-course for $50 and more (depends on the value of your product). You'll get your traffic from your existing book, your email list and also from search engines. Now you should optimise everything: Eg. learn more about seo, hire writers who write articles for your website, optimise the design of your website, a social media network around your business and so on. If you've done everything think about a new product (a software, a mobile app or even a physical product). Finally secure your success with promotional products (permanent free books, more free content on your website, maybe free videos on youtube, a free mobile app or something like this). Last but not least: Buy traffic (eg. Google Adwords, Facebook etc.)
It's just my opinion and it doesn't mean you have to do it step by step. You can do much things parallel eg. If you publish your books to dominate your niche you should already have a website with an email newsletter if you don't want to lose cutomers who are already buying your books.
Also remeber: it's easy to create a passive income of 5k, 10k, 20k per month within a short time only with Kindle. But you are just able to make the big money outside of Amazon. You can't sell an ebook (course) for $100 on Amazon.
I think it's not possible to scale it up by outsourcing the writing of your books if you want to build up an expert business. Because you don't want to spam the market with tons of books ...you want to publish very high quality products.
Btw: If people don't subscribe to your email list it's your fault. Do you offer something for free? Is it really something that provides value (because people will not download something only because it's free if it's a crappy. And if they do they'll not buy something in the future because they lost their trust in you, your business, your products). Maybe you have to increase the quality. Maybe you have to optimise your offer inside of your books or on your website and so on. It's not the fault of your customers, the time, the weather, the market etc. - it's only your fault.
It's just my opinion and it doesn't mean you have to do it step by step. You can do much things parallel eg. If you publish your books to dominate your niche you should already have a website with an email newsletter if you don't want to lose cutomers who are already buying your books.
Also remeber: it's easy to create a passive income of 5k, 10k, 20k per month within a short time only with Kindle. But you are just able to make the big money outside of Amazon. You can't sell an ebook (course) for $100 on Amazon.
I think it's not possible to scale it up by outsourcing the writing of your books if you want to build up an expert business. Because you don't want to spam the market with tons of books ...you want to publish very high quality products.
Btw: If people don't subscribe to your email list it's your fault. Do you offer something for free? Is it really something that provides value (because people will not download something only because it's free if it's a crappy. And if they do they'll not buy something in the future because they lost their trust in you, your business, your products). Maybe you have to increase the quality. Maybe you have to optimise your offer inside of your books or on your website and so on. It's not the fault of your customers, the time, the weather, the market etc. - it's only your fault.
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Congrats, that's a nice stream of passive income!
Just a quick question, I would appreciate your help. Where do you find the writers? Do you use oDesk/Elance and similar sites? If yes, what's the price range of the authors you hire?
About AdWords - you can't link directly to your eBook. You'd need to create a landing page (website) for the book and promote that on AW. You need to check the bid prices for you main keywords and see if they're not too expensive. Also, if you are in the KDP select program, you are not allowed to sell your eBook anywhere else. However, if you feel adventurous, you could just change the cover and the title and sell your eBook on your landing page.
These services are great for making landing pages:
https://siteorigin.com/page-builder/
http://www.optimizepress.com/
http://unbounce.com/
Pirate Monk
Junior Member
- May 20, 2013
- 101
- 53
@pinger030 Respect to you.
Can you share the process you go through when hiring writers? I am looking to go for Fiction but I don't have idea with outsourcing. I am a professional designer so, I can create my own killing book covers but for writing it is just not something for me.
How do you go looking for fiction writers? As Fiction is more like an art, I don't know what story I will getting what category etc. Do you provide story line to your writers? Do you have the book content predefined ? Can you share the whole process from start?
Thanks
Can you share the process you go through when hiring writers? I am looking to go for Fiction but I don't have idea with outsourcing. I am a professional designer so, I can create my own killing book covers but for writing it is just not something for me.
How do you go looking for fiction writers? As Fiction is more like an art, I don't know what story I will getting what category etc. Do you provide story line to your writers? Do you have the book content predefined ? Can you share the whole process from start?
Thanks
Pinger030
Regular Member
- Oct 15, 2013
- 304
- 379
You have to analyse the market for niches.
Now you can hire writers (odesk, freelancers etc.)
They should send you a proof of their writing skills.
If it's okay - hire them.
Send them a plot of a story and tell them exactly what you want.
(If you don't know what you want: buy some books of other authors in your niche and read how they do it.)
Dont forget to set up a contract about the exclusive rights etc.
(If you have no idea about this: Go to a lawyer or google).
When you get a story back you have to read it, give feedback and the next job (or not if it was too bad)
Your writers getting better from job to job if you give them helpful feedback (so it's just human if they are not perfect from the beginning).
Bind your best authors exclusively on you (say: "You can write as much as you want for me. You decide the amount of your earnings. Deliver 20 stories/mo and I pay you $2000).
The writer doesn't have to look for other jobs in the future.
That's all.
When I started I've hired about 20 writers. After that I picked out the four best writers for my team. They are writing just for me now. They can decide how fast they want to write/make money. Some are able to write 10 stories per month, others just two. Meanwhile they know exactly what I want (because of my feedback) and it's a very relaxing working for me and for them.
Now you can hire writers (odesk, freelancers etc.)
They should send you a proof of their writing skills.
If it's okay - hire them.
Send them a plot of a story and tell them exactly what you want.
(If you don't know what you want: buy some books of other authors in your niche and read how they do it.)
Dont forget to set up a contract about the exclusive rights etc.
(If you have no idea about this: Go to a lawyer or google).
When you get a story back you have to read it, give feedback and the next job (or not if it was too bad)
Your writers getting better from job to job if you give them helpful feedback (so it's just human if they are not perfect from the beginning).
Bind your best authors exclusively on you (say: "You can write as much as you want for me. You decide the amount of your earnings. Deliver 20 stories/mo and I pay you $2000).
The writer doesn't have to look for other jobs in the future.
That's all.
When I started I've hired about 20 writers. After that I picked out the four best writers for my team. They are writing just for me now. They can decide how fast they want to write/make money. Some are able to write 10 stories per month, others just two. Meanwhile they know exactly what I want (because of my feedback) and it's a very relaxing working for me and for them.
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NemoTheOne
Power Member
- May 18, 2009
- 735
- 248
Thanks Pinger. That was an extremely helpful and informative post. To answer your question, I offer a free ebook. I think it might be an old method, so perhaps it's not working - or also, I may not have given it much time. From what I understand, for every 100 people that go to the city, only 5 will sign up. I read something like that, and it could be inaccurate.
Also I don't do much of a hard sell to sign up. I will refocus now, after having read your thoughts on it.
I see also, with Kindle, as opposed to spam, it's more about building a brand.
Thanks
NemoTheOne
Power Member
- May 18, 2009
- 735
- 248
I have not had any issues finding freelancers, for the most part. Yes, like many have said, my first 2 or 3 freelancers were pretty weak. But after trial and testing I have a good core of freelancers I can go to for various things. Yes, I use those Freelance sites with minimal issues, really. Maybe I am just lucky.
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theconscience
Regular Member
- May 16, 2014
- 311
- 30
Don't you feel sometimes that i
F you wrote the books yourself your stories
would be far superior?
F you wrote the books yourself your stories
would be far superior?
Hey Pinger,
How many books have you uploaded so far?
Not exact numbers, just a rough estimate. Because you said you have had 20 writers at some points.
I only ask because I plan to upload three books a day for the next few months but I'm worried about getting caught for spam.
I'm pulling in around $4000 - $5000 p/m at the moment but I think I could easily break 5 figures if I keep going.
All my stuff is original and above board when it comes to content. I emailed Amazon and they said that they don't have a maximum upload limit but I'd get nervous if I had like 1000 books on my dashboard!
How many books have you uploaded so far?
Not exact numbers, just a rough estimate. Because you said you have had 20 writers at some points.
I only ask because I plan to upload three books a day for the next few months but I'm worried about getting caught for spam.
I'm pulling in around $4000 - $5000 p/m at the moment but I think I could easily break 5 figures if I keep going.
All my stuff is original and above board when it comes to content. I emailed Amazon and they said that they don't have a maximum upload limit but I'd get nervous if I had like 1000 books on my dashboard!
Pinger030
Regular Member
- Oct 15, 2013
- 304
- 379
@cons
Yes, I can definitely say that I'm able to write better fiction books than my writers. But it takes time because I can't write a good story within a few days. I think my writers could be better too but you have to remember: If you pay $100 for 10.000 words and maybe they need 3 days * 10 hours = 30 hours ...they are working for about 3 or 4 dollars per hour. So you can't expect a perfect quality. But you would also not work or $3 per hour. But with the correction of their stories you can increase the quality substantially. Fiction is just a numbers game for me. I don't try to be the next JK Rowling but that doesn't mean that I publish shit. I provide the quality which is necessary to sell. If I'm able to make $100 with a book (in average) it's a good book. Fiction books with 10k words are just consuming products to entertain the customers for a few hours ...it's not big literature.
@dan
I've hired about 20 writers when I start because I just wanted to find 4 or 5 good writers for my team. I can't manage more even if I outsource the correction and formatting. I also have to give feedback, write the blurbs, give my writers exactly instructions for the stories, analyse the market, design the covers and so on. You would need an army of workers to publish 3 books per day. And remember: It just makes sense if you publish books with a quality that sells. If your sales are breaking down after two weeks because of the quality it makes no sense. Maybe it works for you but for me it's unbelievable. I've 4 writers actually and they all together are able to write about 15 stories per month (with 10k words). You want to publish 3 stories per day (90 stories per month)??? That means you need about 20 good writers + minimum 3 cover designers + 3 people for the correction + ...you have to give all people instructions, you have to pay them, you have to give feedback, outline 90 stories every month and so on. This is impossible even if you would work 20 hours a day, ...even if you have one manager on your side it's not possible.
I can tell you that it's hard work even with a handful of people. It's absolutely clear what I have to do and it's nothing special ...but it's not funny at all. It's really hard work.
My personal opinion is also to keep the structure of my business uncomplicated. In the theory you can publish 3 books per day ...If you are able to manage about 30 or 40 people. I can't.
So if you have too much money fiction books are not a great investment case. You could invest in non fiction books: less books, outstanding quality, you don't need to manage an army of workers, guaranteed a higher chance for long term success etc. That was just my personal opinion. I don't want to limit you if you think you can publish 3 books/day. Maybe you can..
Yes, I can definitely say that I'm able to write better fiction books than my writers. But it takes time because I can't write a good story within a few days. I think my writers could be better too but you have to remember: If you pay $100 for 10.000 words and maybe they need 3 days * 10 hours = 30 hours ...they are working for about 3 or 4 dollars per hour. So you can't expect a perfect quality. But you would also not work or $3 per hour. But with the correction of their stories you can increase the quality substantially. Fiction is just a numbers game for me. I don't try to be the next JK Rowling but that doesn't mean that I publish shit. I provide the quality which is necessary to sell. If I'm able to make $100 with a book (in average) it's a good book. Fiction books with 10k words are just consuming products to entertain the customers for a few hours ...it's not big literature.
@dan
I've hired about 20 writers when I start because I just wanted to find 4 or 5 good writers for my team. I can't manage more even if I outsource the correction and formatting. I also have to give feedback, write the blurbs, give my writers exactly instructions for the stories, analyse the market, design the covers and so on. You would need an army of workers to publish 3 books per day. And remember: It just makes sense if you publish books with a quality that sells. If your sales are breaking down after two weeks because of the quality it makes no sense. Maybe it works for you but for me it's unbelievable. I've 4 writers actually and they all together are able to write about 15 stories per month (with 10k words). You want to publish 3 stories per day (90 stories per month)??? That means you need about 20 good writers + minimum 3 cover designers + 3 people for the correction + ...you have to give all people instructions, you have to pay them, you have to give feedback, outline 90 stories every month and so on. This is impossible even if you would work 20 hours a day, ...even if you have one manager on your side it's not possible.
I can tell you that it's hard work even with a handful of people. It's absolutely clear what I have to do and it's nothing special ...but it's not funny at all. It's really hard work.
My personal opinion is also to keep the structure of my business uncomplicated. In the theory you can publish 3 books per day ...If you are able to manage about 30 or 40 people. I can't.
So if you have too much money fiction books are not a great investment case. You could invest in non fiction books: less books, outstanding quality, you don't need to manage an army of workers, guaranteed a higher chance for long term success etc. That was just my personal opinion. I don't want to limit you if you think you can publish 3 books/day. Maybe you can..
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Thanks for the reply 
Actually I do everything myself. Most of my books are between 4k -5k. Make the covers myself and edit them myself. I don't use any fake reviews and I tend to get positive feedback from readers thankfully. It probably sounds crazy, but its not hard once you develop a system and a formula. I've got the writing down to an art form at this point. I developed my own system for making covers and a structure that allows me to write really quickly.
Making covers is my real strength and that's why I do well though.
I was considering hiring someone to take some of the load off because it can be really hard to do it from a mental standpoint. I'm just going to keep uploading until I run into a problem with Amazon
Actually I do everything myself. Most of my books are between 4k -5k. Make the covers myself and edit them myself. I don't use any fake reviews and I tend to get positive feedback from readers thankfully. It probably sounds crazy, but its not hard once you develop a system and a formula. I've got the writing down to an art form at this point. I developed my own system for making covers and a structure that allows me to write really quickly.
Making covers is my real strength and that's why I do well though.
I was considering hiring someone to take some of the load off because it can be really hard to do it from a mental standpoint. I'm just going to keep uploading until I run into a problem with Amazon
Thanks for the reply
Actually I do everything myself. Most of my books are between 4k -5k. Make the covers myself and edit them myself. I don't use any fake reviews and I tend to get positive feedback from readers thankfully. It probably sounds crazy, but its not hard once you develop a system and a formula. I've got the writing down to an art form at this point. I developed my own system for making covers and a structure that allows me to write really quickly.
Making covers is my real strength and that's why I do well though.
I was considering hiring someone to take some of the load off because it can be really hard to do it from a mental standpoint. I'm just going to keep uploading until I run into a problem with Amazon
That's actually pretty impressive. Do you write fiction or non fiction?
Strictly fiction. Erotic Romance to be exact. I work off of a simple formula. Lets say you want to write a 4k short story.
500 words to introduce the main character
500 words to introduce love interest
500 words of conflict
500 words for the resolution
then 2k for the passion scene
takes time to get used to it and it is very tedious but it works in every sub niche and should work as long as your covers are up to scratch.
For the covers all you need to do is to download the best converting covers from a similar niche and then emulate them as best you can. I learned Photoshop from scratch using Youtube tutorials. Took time but it was worth it because it doesn't take that long to make a good cover once you get the hang of it.
500 words to introduce the main character
500 words to introduce love interest
500 words of conflict
500 words for the resolution
then 2k for the passion scene
takes time to get used to it and it is very tedious but it works in every sub niche and should work as long as your covers are up to scratch.
For the covers all you need to do is to download the best converting covers from a similar niche and then emulate them as best you can. I learned Photoshop from scratch using Youtube tutorials. Took time but it was worth it because it doesn't take that long to make a good cover once you get the hang of it.
- Dec 26, 2013
- 5,947
- 5,395
Thanks for the reply
Actually I do everything myself. Most of my books are between 4k -5k. Make the covers myself and edit them myself. I don't use any fake reviews and I tend to get positive feedback from readers thankfully. It probably sounds crazy, but its not hard once you develop a system and a formula. I've got the writing down to an art form at this point. I developed my own system for making covers and a structure that allows me to write really quickly.
Making covers is my real strength and that's why I do well though.
I was considering hiring someone to take some of the load off because it can be really hard to do it from a mental standpoint. I'm just going to keep uploading until I run into a problem with Amazon
Hi thedan39,
I am pretty successful on Kindle, I use a similar approach to Pinger only mostly in fiction, where he targets most of his big money books in non-fiction.
There is a sweet spot you need to find for your niche, which is basically "what is the minimum amount I can do for the maximum revenue". Generally you will have to improve the quality to achieve this.
For example in children's books I found circa 5000 words generated me an income of $100-$300 per book per month.
When I added pictures to my 5000 words this went to $1000-$1500 per month per book!
So guess what? When I scaled my children's books they have picture in!
My point is before you scale - and 3 books per day is serious scaling - workout the sweet spot first and then scale with that else you could be missing out on a ton of extra revenue for not an awful lot of extra work.
You don't say how many books you have produced for your $4000-$5000 per month. If I produced 90 books per month I would expect to be adding a minimum of $100,000 per month to my income. If they didn't I wouldn't be bothered doing that many as the work involved would be huge.
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Is 4K words what you do or just for the sake of this example? If so, may I ask how many books you have? I had looked into this genre before, but as you can see by my above comments, I decided not to give it a go based on the negative results of my research. $4,000/mo total is my goal, so I'm curious to see how far away that is if I were to try erotic romance.
kekmaw
Junior Member
- Dec 19, 2014
- 147
- 55
Great read, I'm curious about how many pictures you use in a book for about 5000 words?
- Dec 26, 2013
- 5,947
- 5,395
More pictures = more money in kids books so basically every page
Until I hit my sweet spot of about $1500 per month per book. Then it is tricky to sell more.
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It was an example but I've also uploaded 4k books that have received 5 star reviews. The formula works with any short story really. Just expand it. So for a 5k book I would write:
100 words for the copyright info.
600 words to introduce the main character
600 words to introduce the love interest
600 words for conflict
600 words for the resolution
and then 2500 words for the passion scene.
TBH it's a crude example as a lot of the scenes overlap. It's just a simplified version of what I do really. It's best to write a minimum of 5k, but if you're creative then you could shorten it a little if you want. The passionate scenes are not always 50% of the story.
The covers are the key dude. Covers and the title. The cover is the first thing people look at. The writing is important, but people only see that if they actually buy the book to begin with. The only reason I'm doing well is because of my covers. I have zero doubt about that. Get photoshop. Watch tutorials on youtube. Get some filters for photoshop like topaz labs as it will speed up the process. Start off by practicing with pictures on google and then buy stock images once you're ready to start. I think you can get an account with deposit photos for about 75 dollars.
I read a thread on here about parasite websites. Use the same principle for your titles but be creative. Search the best sellers and find a book that is selling well with a generic sounding title. So if the best seller in your niche is called 'captured by the alpha male' then use the same title with an extra word or two tacked on. Or else include some keywords in brackets after the title. Example - 'captured by the alpha male (werewolf shifter erotic romance). When I'm coming up with a new pen name I search for popular authors and take someones first name and another persons last name. Not sure if it helps though. But before you do that make sure to search for your chosen pen name to make sure it isn't being used already. Never copy a unique book title though. If you try to use '50 shades of grey (alpha male erotic romance)' then you'll be in trouble.
Having a few beers tonight so I hope that all made sense!
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