Wealth Inequality in America

[jazzc]

Yes but logic can't be applied to everything? Some things don't make logical sense. They make sense but not in a logical way.

Everything makes logical sense, because of the nature of logic itself.

 

[jazzc]

Why did the 3rd one say yes?

The 1st one did not know if the second and third one wanted beer, but we can deduce that he wanted beer himself, otherwise he 'd say NO (since at least one of all would not want beer).

The 2nd one deducted that the 1st one wanted beer from his answer but did not know about the third one. Again, it 's clear that the second one wanted beer as well, or he 'd answer no ("not everyone because I don't")

The 3rd one deducted that the 1st and the 2nd ones wanted beer, and said yes because he wanted too - and now he can claim with certainty that "everyone wants beer".

 

[ShadeDream]

Everything makes logical sense, because of the nature of logic itself.

So you're saying logic can be applied to everything? Emotions, sensations, animals, nature, etc?

 

[ShadeDream]

The 1st one did not know if the second and third one wanted beer, but we can deduce that he wanted beer himself, otherwise he 'd say NO (since at least one of all would not want beer).

The 2nd one deducted that the 1st one wanted beer from his answer but did not know about the third one. Again, it 's clear that the second one wanted beer as well, or he 'd answer no ("not everyone because I don't")

The 3rd one deducted that the 1st and the 2nd ones wanted beer, and said yes because he wanted too - and now he can claim with certainty that "everyone wants beer".

Or the first and second one weren't sure if they wanted beer or maybe something else. They were asked for beer, they didn't want to say no but at the same time they weren't sure, maybe they were looking for something else, maybe they just couldn't decide whether to go for beer or a vodka shot.

Logic my ass, not everything is logical. Explain women in logic and you'll be praised as a King.

But to be serious, if logic can be applied to everything, then that would mean that everything is predictable and we all know that this is false.

 

[therage]

The only inequality is in our minds and hearts. Those that do make money provide a product or service people buy (even if it doesn't benefit them). Poor people just have more problems than solutions, rich people have more solutions than problems. So is their wealth inequality in the world? Yes there is but it is not the poor being kept poor by the rich, rather the poor being kept poor because of their minds.

 

[jazzc]

Or the first and second one weren't sure if they wanted beer or maybe something else. They were asked for beer, they didn't want to say no but at the same time they weren't sure, maybe they were looking for something else, maybe they just couldn't decide whether to go for beer or a vodka shot.

Wrong. Totally wrong. If the first one was not sure he wanted beer, the proposition "everyone wants beer" would be false, thus his answer would have been "no", instead of "i do not know".

Logic is about robustness and rigidness in doing the steps. Practice and you 'll get it.

Logic my ass, not everything is logical. Explain women in logic and you'll be praised as a King.

Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it 's not logical.

But to be serious, if logic can be applied to everything, then that would mean that everything is predictable and we all know that this is false.

Gah, the second part doesn't lead to the first

Predictability has to do with stability of system given small variations of the initial conditions - what you hear as chaos theory. Despite its name, there 's nothing unknown or chaotic about the theory itsef, it is fully deterministic.

You see, a boatload of insanely talented people have spent their lives expanding science. And their work is available to us. We don't have to do it again. All we have to do is study their work. That 's what education is; tapping into the collective work of dead people.

 

[jazzc]

So you're saying logic can be applied to everything? Emotions, sensations, animals, nature, etc?

Logic doesn't get applied, it 's not some kind of lotion you put over something to change it.

Logic is the framework used to deduct everything from a set of initial assumptions. Logic itself is based on initial assumptions as well. For example, one such assumption is that (not (not A) = A).

 

[evilclown]

This is very simple. The only people that worry about the rich is the poor lazy ass that don't want to work. Only if they get off their ass and work to build their own wealth they will stop thinking on how much the rich banks.

 

[ShadeDream]

Wrong. Totally wrong. If the first one was not sure he wanted beer, the proposition "everyone wants beer" would be false, thus his answer would have been "no", instead of "i do not know".

No not wrong at all. I'm not looking at it logically though. Nowhere in the picture does it say "everyone wants beer". A question is asked "does everyone want beer"?

Go here:

http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/left-vs-right-brain-test-for-creativity-or-logic/

Which way does she spin for you?

 

[jazzc]

No not wrong at all. I'm not looking at it logically though.

Sure, you do not have to. Bad thing is that once one leaves the ship of logic, the value of the statements equal to this one: "fdjslfjdslfkjslrjwlskfjsdlfgjlsdfjksdklfjlsdfjlkdsf".

Nowhere in the picture does it say "everyone wants beer". A question is asked "does everyone want beer"?

And there are only 2 possible answers, tell me you can at least you see that? "everyone wants beer"(yes) and "not everyone wants beer"(no).

Which way does she spin for you?

Let me guess, you think that somehow creativity is orthogonal to logic??

 

[ShadeDream]

And there are only 2 possible answers, tell me you can at least you see that? "everyone wants beer"(yes) and "not everyone wants beer"(no).

Yes I can totally see that, it makes logical sense to me the way you've explained it. It's just that I was trying to say that a different approach can be taken.

Let me guess, you think that somehow creativity is orthogonal to logic??

No, I was just wondering, I came across it while looking into some logic related theories.

I mainly see it spin clockwise but when I start reading/thinking and then look back at it, it spins counterclockwise for a while.

 

[bashx]

Corporate welfare is much more of an issue than social welfare.
Small businesses in this country get whacked while the larger enjoy ridiculous tax loop holes.

If you truly believe we do not have an income inequality issue in this country I do not know what to tell you.

 

[shad0wslay3r]

Some people just aren't aware of the 'real world'. Getting out of the Black hole of poverty is ridiculously hard BECAUSE the gov't made it that way. If you've ever been poor, then you Know this is a fact.

Hm. I grew up poor. Actually, very poor. I started work at age 14 because I realized I didn't have the same opportunities some of my friends had. If I wanted something, I had to work for it. It was that simple.

Now, because I was poor, very poor, I actually got some great opportunities that many of my "middle class" friends didn't get. Because I was poor, I got state/federal grants to attend college. I probably even was awarded scholarships just based on the fact my family was "poor". Seem fair? I bet there were kids with better GPA, better activity shet, and whatever have you.

I worked my nuts off to get good grades, have a job, etc. Do I complain that I got to go to school for free? Absolutely not. However, is it right that I got educated for free (I never made enough money to have to pay taxes which contribute to our education systems. Well one year I made like $9,000 so I paid $1 in federal tax or something silly) while my friends (whose parents probably did pay their fair share of taxes) had to take massive amounts of loan to achieve an education? Shet's fecked all over.

Don't say there's a black hole for the poor. It isn't a fact. Sure, I'll never be in the 1%. Neither the 10%. Not even the top 20%. That's fine. I'm a firm believer that if you work hard and stick to it, a majority of the time you'll pull through. Does it work for everybody? No, of course not. Some people truly did get fecked in life, but that isn't a matter of just being wealthy/poor, that can happen both ways.

/rant

 

[jazzc]

@shad0wslay3r

Hats off for not being pretentious.

While we all get things that are offered for free (free to us), it 's rare the individual who doesn't come out and say "the world owed it to me, it 's only proper they did so".

 

[ShadeDream]

Don't say there's a black hole for the poor. It isn't a fact. Sure, I'll never be in the 1%. Neither the 10%. Not even the top 20%. That's fine. I'm a firm believer that if you work hard and stick to it, a majority of the time you'll pull through. Does it work for everybody? No, of course not. Some people truly did get fecked in life, but that isn't a matter of just being wealthy/poor, that can happen both ways.

/rant

I can only assume you're in the US or the UK? Not all countries provide such benefits, hence in one way or another there is a black hole for the poor in certain countries. I'm not saying every poor person that isn't in the US or the UK is doomed, but speaking of opportunities, it is much harder to find them in certain countries then it is in others.

 

[Nigel Farage]

Hats off for not being pretentious.

Disagree.

Complete absence of guilt for having stolen opportunities that were better earned by others. Tries for redemption be claiming how hard he/she worked, as if the better qualified people must not have worked as much. "Despite being underqualified, I worked harder than they did (or would have)." is the implied statement we are invited to believe. Note the complete absence of a belief in the infinity of possibilities, and the bald and public statement of a complete lack of desire to achieve them. Collectively we've wasted our time & energy dragging a quadriplegic amphibian out from the mud, who is content to lay there inert, when instead we could have helped a more brilliant mind to fly to unlimited horizons.

These are the experiences that keep at least my right foot firmly grounded in libertarian thinking, as even the best-possible state-sponsored solutions must strive mightily in order to achieve that lofty status of "barely adequate".

 

[bashx]

Hm. I grew up poor. Actually, very poor. I started work at age 14 because I realized I didn't have the same opportunities some of my friends had. If I wanted something, I had to work for it. It was that simple.

Now, because I was poor, very poor, I actually got some great opportunities that many of my "middle class" friends didn't get. Because I was poor, I got state/federal grants to attend college. I probably even was awarded scholarships just based on the fact my family was "poor". Seem fair? I bet there were kids with better GPA, better activity shet, and whatever have you.

I worked my nuts off to get good grades, have a job, etc. Do I complain that I got to go to school for free? Absolutely not. However, is it right that I got educated for free (I never made enough money to have to pay taxes which contribute to our education systems. Well one year I made like $9,000 so I paid $1 in federal tax or something silly) while my friends (whose parents probably did pay their fair share of taxes) had to take massive amounts of loan to achieve an education? Shet's fecked all over.

Don't say there's a black hole for the poor. It isn't a fact. Sure, I'll never be in the 1%. Neither the 10%. Not even the top 20%. That's fine. I'm a firm believer that if you work hard and stick to it, a majority of the time you'll pull through. Does it work for everybody? No, of course not. Some people truly did get fecked in life, but that isn't a matter of just being wealthy/poor, that can happen both ways.

/rant

So are you saying it was unfair that you received the help you needed to better your life?

Let's pull that ladder up....

 

[shad0wslay3r]

So are you saying it was unfair that you received the help you needed to better your life?

Let's pull that ladder up....

Life isn't fair.

 

[shad0wslay3r]

Disagree. Complete absence of guilt for having stolen opportunities that were better earned by others. Tries for redemption be claiming how hard he/she worked, as if the better qualified people must not have worked as much. "Despite being underqualified, I worked harder than they did (or would have)." is the implied statement we are invited to believe. Note the complete absence of a belief in the infinity of possibilities, and the bald and public statement of a complete lack of desire to achieve them. Collectively we've wasted our time & energy dragging a quadriplegic amphibian out from the mud, who is content to lay there inert, when instead we could have helped a more brilliant mind to fly to unlimited horizons.

These are the experiences that keep at least my right foot firmly grounded in libertarian thinking, as even the best-possible state-sponsored solutions must strive mightily in order to achieve that lofty status of "barely adequate".

lol, if somebody is content with living life in the mud, why bother them?

The whole point of that post was to say there is no black hole, in my opinion. There are ways out.

 

[jazzc]

Disagree.

Hold your horses and think about reconsidering this one Why?

Complete absence of guilt for having stolen opportunities that were better earned by others.

Because he is not guilty of stealing opportunities (wealth) from other merely from accepting what was passed to him at no cost. That 's not stealing - the money is already there to be had (read below why it matters). What stealing is, is supporting the policies of wealth grabbing (and of course the actual act of grabbing it).

Him being not pretentious means he is honest to himself, smart enough to understand the concept of private property and bold enough to publicly admit it despite his monetary gains. As I said before, a rare thing

These are the experiences that keep at least my right foot firmly grounded in libertarian thinking

Libertarians are not revolutionaries. They do not strive to bring down the law forcefully. They strive to change it by non-aggressive means. This means that while you criticize say health care, you will not object to people using it as long as it is the law. More over, your own choice of using it yourself or not is also ethical & consistent with that, no matter what you choose. Because it 's the law and you are not a revolutionary.