jazzc
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- Jan 27, 2009
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Wealth Inequality in America
- Thread starter John P
- Start date
madoctopus
Supreme Member
- Apr 4, 2010
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It is not and has never been about poor vs rich. It's about imbeciles who demand that people who have a good life to fuck themselves up on purpose and split they hard earned resources with them, lazy fucks who sit on their ass all day long and complain and bitch about everything from weather to money.
Yes rich people sometimes abuse poor people. Sometimes does not mean always or as a general rule. Most of the times they abuse poor people it is not because they're mean but because the poor people are just retarded enough that they get to suffer.
If you make a loan for a big house and you sign on the dotted line and agree to the terms that state they can change anything about the terms of the contract at any time then do not complain when you can't pay. Is it transparent? No! But then again if you had more than 2 neurons you'd know what you get yourself into.
Most people who bitch about rich people waste the little they have on crap - from booze, going out, ipod, ipad, iphone, pay-per-view, cool car, bigger house than what they can afford, etc. They have a shitty 9 to 5 job they hate and doesnt even make them a lot of money and when they come back at home at 5 they lay on the couch and watch soap operas, useless talk shows (Oriley anybody?), etc.
Then, while they know deep down if they only put the effort into developing themselves they'd do better, they want to live well without any sacrifice whatsoever - that means without investing even a couple of hours a day to learn something new.
"oh no, couldn't do that, that's hard and <insert lame excuse here>" - have you actually tried doing it?
"you can't get rich, these bastards dont let you" - have you fucking tried?
"rich people take everything from us"
"read a book? what for? i read Playboy"
"what you mean spend 5-10 years to develop myself to live better? you insane? i'm not wasting 10 years..." - that "wasting" is called "growing", what you do now is wasting time and life
If you're poor and unhappy is not because of X or Y it is because of YOUR CHOICES. Choices you make every day, every hour, every minute.
Rich people (not all of course) made huge sacrifices to get there. They didn't sat on their ass watching soap operas, they didn't went out with friends, they didnt bought latest ipad, iphone, iwhatever. Maybe, just maybe, some of them worked 16h/day for past 10-20 years while you slacked your 8h/day at work and tried to avoid any work and any responsibility.
The system is not fair or correct but trust me you don't want fairness. Fair means you get no social help for being unemployed. Fair means you pay the same amount of money I pay. Where I live a person with minimum salary would pay let's say $100 as health insurance tax. A person who works his ass of and makes $100k/year gross income would have to pay $5000+. If I pay $5000+ and you pay $100 i feel it is only fair that I receive 50 times better healthcare, a hospital bed 50 times more relaxing and 50 times better and more pills and 50 doctors instead of 1 doctor and 50 nurses instead of 1 nurse... or at least 25 sexy nurses in mini skirts... That would be fair. But no, the 49 times more goes to pay for healthcare for lazy fucks who get all for free and to cover the holes in the system.
Is it the fault of poor people then? No. Is there a conspiracy theory? Probably, more like a conspiracy practice though. Rick people don't give a fuck about you. Of course they don't. Do you give a fuck about Mr. Umbutu in Africa who came home and found his 3 infants hanged by the other ethnic group? I didn't thought so.
You want to get rich and live better? The money is there. It flows in rivers. You just need to get off your ass, grab a bucket and go to the river. It won't flow through your living room, you know...
Is the system optimal. No. It can't be. That's what people don't get. The "system" is a construct of the people inside of it. It is fucked up precisely because of the people inside of it and i mean every single person. Don't blame others because you have your fair share. Ghandi said be the change you want to see in the world around you. He was right. Stop trying to change other people, make them "better", "fair", "nice", etc. Change yourself, be better,, more fair, nicer and when you will, nothing will touch you anymore. You will be like a diamond - even if you're in mud, the mud won't get inside of you.
Yes rich people sometimes abuse poor people. Sometimes does not mean always or as a general rule. Most of the times they abuse poor people it is not because they're mean but because the poor people are just retarded enough that they get to suffer.
If you make a loan for a big house and you sign on the dotted line and agree to the terms that state they can change anything about the terms of the contract at any time then do not complain when you can't pay. Is it transparent? No! But then again if you had more than 2 neurons you'd know what you get yourself into.
Most people who bitch about rich people waste the little they have on crap - from booze, going out, ipod, ipad, iphone, pay-per-view, cool car, bigger house than what they can afford, etc. They have a shitty 9 to 5 job they hate and doesnt even make them a lot of money and when they come back at home at 5 they lay on the couch and watch soap operas, useless talk shows (Oriley anybody?), etc.
Then, while they know deep down if they only put the effort into developing themselves they'd do better, they want to live well without any sacrifice whatsoever - that means without investing even a couple of hours a day to learn something new.
"oh no, couldn't do that, that's hard and <insert lame excuse here>" - have you actually tried doing it?
"you can't get rich, these bastards dont let you" - have you fucking tried?
"rich people take everything from us"
"read a book? what for? i read Playboy"
"what you mean spend 5-10 years to develop myself to live better? you insane? i'm not wasting 10 years..." - that "wasting" is called "growing", what you do now is wasting time and life
If you're poor and unhappy is not because of X or Y it is because of YOUR CHOICES. Choices you make every day, every hour, every minute.
Rich people (not all of course) made huge sacrifices to get there. They didn't sat on their ass watching soap operas, they didn't went out with friends, they didnt bought latest ipad, iphone, iwhatever. Maybe, just maybe, some of them worked 16h/day for past 10-20 years while you slacked your 8h/day at work and tried to avoid any work and any responsibility.
The system is not fair or correct but trust me you don't want fairness. Fair means you get no social help for being unemployed. Fair means you pay the same amount of money I pay. Where I live a person with minimum salary would pay let's say $100 as health insurance tax. A person who works his ass of and makes $100k/year gross income would have to pay $5000+. If I pay $5000+ and you pay $100 i feel it is only fair that I receive 50 times better healthcare, a hospital bed 50 times more relaxing and 50 times better and more pills and 50 doctors instead of 1 doctor and 50 nurses instead of 1 nurse... or at least 25 sexy nurses in mini skirts... That would be fair. But no, the 49 times more goes to pay for healthcare for lazy fucks who get all for free and to cover the holes in the system.
Is it the fault of poor people then? No. Is there a conspiracy theory? Probably, more like a conspiracy practice though. Rick people don't give a fuck about you. Of course they don't. Do you give a fuck about Mr. Umbutu in Africa who came home and found his 3 infants hanged by the other ethnic group? I didn't thought so.
You want to get rich and live better? The money is there. It flows in rivers. You just need to get off your ass, grab a bucket and go to the river. It won't flow through your living room, you know...
Is the system optimal. No. It can't be. That's what people don't get. The "system" is a construct of the people inside of it. It is fucked up precisely because of the people inside of it and i mean every single person. Don't blame others because you have your fair share. Ghandi said be the change you want to see in the world around you. He was right. Stop trying to change other people, make them "better", "fair", "nice", etc. Change yourself, be better,, more fair, nicer and when you will, nothing will touch you anymore. You will be like a diamond - even if you're in mud, the mud won't get inside of you.
ShadeDream
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People like madoctopus inspire me. 
masush300
Supreme Member
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:congrats: inspired me too
Nigel Farage
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I chose the word with great deliberation "stealing". Stealing because accepting the gift of someone else's stolen resources makes one complicit in the crime. Second because if you had been unfairly given opportunities that you did not deserve your entire life, you would naturally perpetuate the dynamic of the theft by again robbing Peter in order to pay a different Paul. There is no way to logically separate those that advocate policies that steal from one group in order to give to another, from those that derive benefit from the crimes. They are all the same group. The getaway car driver is still guilty of Armed Robbery, even if he never enters the bank. Failing to understand and then act on the belief that they are all criminals participating in a crime that will never end, only guarantees that it will never end.
And finally because we who would like to change this have no other choice, as no other word/concept encapsulates the coarse and rudimentary idea that it's WRONG and should be stopped, and people that participate in it are bad, and bad things should happen to those that advocate it's continuance. IMO, nothing short of civil war is going to stop this. A well-armed and intellectually advanced minority is going to have to threaten the retarded majority with guns, and occasionally prove that they are willing to crack some eggs. In order to be able to accomplish this, you have to demonize someone, and behold, I present to you The Unrepentant Demon.
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madoctopus
Supreme Member
- Apr 4, 2010
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No it doesn't. By your theory every single American is a steals when fills his car with gas. Hell, every single human being is a thief because he uses indirectly some "stolen" resource. And no it is not the same as the getaway driver, but more like the car dealer who sold the car to the robbers.
Getwhatchuwant
Elite Member
- Jul 25, 2011
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Too bad it 's half the truth, eh?
Here 's the response to that crappy propaganda, view it 10 times to absorb it if you don't see what 's going on:
Cute attempt at diversion by the vid creator, pretty interesting that this vid shows the top 1% pays 37% of all taxes but they get 40% of all income. Seems like they are 3% short.
Anyway this country has been chugging along for a couple hundred years, only in the last 30 has it got so ugly. The poor are actually poorer (after inflation) the middle class is shrinking and most new income is generated by a few. Both graphs wont change much until the middle class grows. Ahhh trickle down! LOL
Mad Octopus, you have a very interesting post and I agree with SOME of what you say and disagree with SOME as well.
Poor people are sometimes lazy, other times not. Rich people sometimes make sacrifices to get rich other times not. I dont agree that most poor demand for some rich guy to split his resources in order to stay lazy. What I think they would prefer is for the uber rich NOT to hide money offshore in order to avoid taxation, which then encourages debt and more of a burden on the middle. I think the poor prefer a living wage instead of salaries SO LOW that the middle class has to subsidize housing, health and food stamps to people employed at said company.
I also think that the poor are tired of super rich pointing at them as dependent when corporate welfare spending is 50% higher than safety net programs (not counting social security or medicare) in this country.
Another thing to take note of, on average the BEST student coming from a poor family does on average what the WORST student coming from a rich family does in terms of long term income. Let that sink in for a minute. On average, a top notch student that busted his butt to make something of himself will only be earning about the same income as a rich kid that did next to nothing in school. Obviously there are exceptions but aside from the tax graph, the income and wealth graph really cannot be disputed. (lets not forget the burden a college degree puts on a poor family on top of all of what I just wrote)
All of that said, there is no room for people who choose to do nothing and live in squalor, but that is not everyone, that is just some. And before you think I am some broke guy, Im not. I do 6 figures and my wife works to so we are "upper middle class" according to the income breakdown in the US. But I still see the issues that are present.
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shanna_doll
Senior Member
- Apr 10, 2012
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It's true that some people deserve to be rich and some deserve to be poor, but remember that poor are mostly poor because with rate 30% of interests you can't achieve anything.. you can just live your life paying rates...and interests will always keep poor man even poorer and rich even richer.
unclemike
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madoctopus
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@Getwhatchuwant I know what you mean. I focused on the whiners on purpose because i'm not pointing fingers at all poor people but at those who are whiners and expect others to provide them with stuff.
Yes, there are poor people who are poor because of context. Or so it seems initially. In reality they are still the result of their choices. Education is free. Let me say that again - education is free. Education doesn't come from school. That's sometimes worse than not going to school at all. If you want education it is very very cheap to get it. If you want the illusion of education and a piece of paper so you can prove others you are educated regardless of whether you are or not, then you need to pay loads to a college to give you a piece of paper saying you're educated. That is not education though.
At the end of the day, no matter how poor you are, lack of money is the smallest problem you have. Real problem for poor people is not lack of money but lack of a healthy mindset. Rich people get that in the family since they understand the concept of money. Poor people are taught either literally or by the power of example and logical deduction and reflection by their family, peers and social environment. That is why most stay poor. Only people who escape poverty are those who choose to escape the mindset of their peers. This is not easy and is the reason why so few succeed.
Yes, lack of money will make your life harder but not as hard as some people think. You will reduce every expense to minimum and work maybe double than others. But it is doable. You can find clothes for free or very cheap. You don't need a car. You can live with other people and split rent. And so on. You go and look for jobs that don't require skills you don't have but still pay well. There are always jobs that pay very well compared to the education you need for them. Many times because they involve sacrifices like relocation (construction worker) or living on the road (truck driver). In the end even with a medium-payed job you can do just fine if your goal is not to make it a way of life but a bridge you have to walk to get to a nicer place. Note there is a mindset thing here. Note that you have to work your ass off and accept the fact that if you want a better life you must make some sacrifices on the short term and work harder than others and develop yourself. That's why most don't even try. They want to get something NOW with no effort put into it, without sacrifices, staying as dumb as they are now. It is how it happens offline and it is how it happens online. This is the main core reason why most people fail to make money online. They want it now, without effort or sacrifice. If I tell them to learn how to code they go "neh, that's not for me". And they keep telling me tens of reasons why they won't do X or Y. Some even ask questions like "if i can work only 2 hours a day, can i make money online" and my question usually is "absolutely, after you worked 16h/day for several years". You are not an astronaut just because you want to be one. You are not the fastest athlete on Earth just because you want to be one. It takes hard work and a massive change of who you are now into the person you want to be a few years from now. In the end, it is that simple. Yes, there's a conspiracy practice to keep masses dumb and consuming and have them as slaves worrying and staying poor. But that's not a cause in itself of some evil force, just an effect of the habits people have combined with the skill of the rick to capitalize on these habits.
Yes, there are poor people who are poor because of context. Or so it seems initially. In reality they are still the result of their choices. Education is free. Let me say that again - education is free. Education doesn't come from school. That's sometimes worse than not going to school at all. If you want education it is very very cheap to get it. If you want the illusion of education and a piece of paper so you can prove others you are educated regardless of whether you are or not, then you need to pay loads to a college to give you a piece of paper saying you're educated. That is not education though.
At the end of the day, no matter how poor you are, lack of money is the smallest problem you have. Real problem for poor people is not lack of money but lack of a healthy mindset. Rich people get that in the family since they understand the concept of money. Poor people are taught either literally or by the power of example and logical deduction and reflection by their family, peers and social environment. That is why most stay poor. Only people who escape poverty are those who choose to escape the mindset of their peers. This is not easy and is the reason why so few succeed.
Yes, lack of money will make your life harder but not as hard as some people think. You will reduce every expense to minimum and work maybe double than others. But it is doable. You can find clothes for free or very cheap. You don't need a car. You can live with other people and split rent. And so on. You go and look for jobs that don't require skills you don't have but still pay well. There are always jobs that pay very well compared to the education you need for them. Many times because they involve sacrifices like relocation (construction worker) or living on the road (truck driver). In the end even with a medium-payed job you can do just fine if your goal is not to make it a way of life but a bridge you have to walk to get to a nicer place. Note there is a mindset thing here. Note that you have to work your ass off and accept the fact that if you want a better life you must make some sacrifices on the short term and work harder than others and develop yourself. That's why most don't even try. They want to get something NOW with no effort put into it, without sacrifices, staying as dumb as they are now. It is how it happens offline and it is how it happens online. This is the main core reason why most people fail to make money online. They want it now, without effort or sacrifice. If I tell them to learn how to code they go "neh, that's not for me". And they keep telling me tens of reasons why they won't do X or Y. Some even ask questions like "if i can work only 2 hours a day, can i make money online" and my question usually is "absolutely, after you worked 16h/day for several years". You are not an astronaut just because you want to be one. You are not the fastest athlete on Earth just because you want to be one. It takes hard work and a massive change of who you are now into the person you want to be a few years from now. In the end, it is that simple. Yes, there's a conspiracy practice to keep masses dumb and consuming and have them as slaves worrying and staying poor. But that's not a cause in itself of some evil force, just an effect of the habits people have combined with the skill of the rick to capitalize on these habits.
Getwhatchuwant
Elite Member
- Jul 25, 2011
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Im with you on this, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. There are enough greedy SOB's at the top and the bottom that really makes life difficult for everyone else.
I will tell you a bit about my family, both my parents were immigrants, non native English speakers. My dad jumped ship way back when, my mom came over legally. My dad busted his butt and saved all of his money to bring his family over legally and did! He is the reason 7 siblings and his parents were able to come to this country. Before I was born he bought and opened his 1st restaurant. He has never worked for another person since, he is in his late 60's now. So yes I understand working your ass off gets you where you want to go BUT I also can acknowledge that doing things that way may not be as effective today as it was in the 60's and 70's.
We have to understand that I am assuming my father was making minimum when he saved to bring his family over and eventually have enough to put down on the restaurant. In the same vein though back in the 60's and 70's you (on average) had to work one week to save enough money to pay your rent making minimum. Today if you make minimum you would have to work 2.5 weeks just to save enough to pay rent. The point is doing things "the old way" can be done but its not as efficient or effective and even MORE sacrifices must be made now than before. Its not a leap to assume many are doing just that and still not getting anywhere.
On the flip side, I learned that the internet is a great equalizer. So if they are smart and determined they can indeed carve out a niche for themselves, I did, you did and several others here did. Problem with that is that it takes no how, some luck and investment.
Education is cheap or free in this country and I know you are not JUST talking about college, but for many people they still see college as the way "out". But if you look the average person with a Bachelors makes $40k per year. Thats $770 per week and then taxes on top of that, I havent made that little in 20 years at least. 2 "average" incomes like that with kids and a home I just dont see how people do it but they do.
Part of the problem IS the income and wealth gap and of course jobs. The more jobs that are open the more value a specialist or college grad can earn. Why? Competition. If there are 5 employers competing for my services I can take the best offer or negotiate a better offer from the company I like best. When there is no competition then I have to take the 1st offer and employers can low ball because they know they can. (I would)
The bottom line is YES you are right and life (especially if you are poor) requires tough decisions and scrfices, what is different now is that even with all the advances that are made you may have to sacrifice MORE than in the past.
Moral- Dont wait for someone to help you, help yourself. There has to be balance somewhere and someone far smarter than me will have to be the one to implement it. But I know pointing fingers solves nothing.
BLIXX
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- Mar 26, 2012
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I excel at very few things. I am well above average at less things than those at which I excel. The rest...? I am average to mediocre, at best.
I attribute every single dime I have ever made to my innate capabilities, at which I am superior: I know people; I know how they work; I know their wants, their needs; their fears and insecurities. Ipso facto, I therefore know their strengths and the point at which they might break from my influence.
Am I 'manipulating' my target audience...? You're God damned right I am. Am I lying to them therefore...? No, I am not. Which is not to say that I do not use people's self-manipulation to mine own advantage -- because I do, at any and every turn.
__________________________________________
Anyroad, I (not as frequently as I would like) speak to the very wisest man I have ever known. During our most recent conversation, I asked him what it is about the modern world that bothered him the most. His reply was as follows:
"That critical thinking is little more than an eccentricity."
The power of this has hit me only as of late. The shear 'cold-bloodlessness' of it, that is. The many 'hidden' implications of the statement.
Best,
BLIXX
I attribute every single dime I have ever made to my innate capabilities, at which I am superior: I know people; I know how they work; I know their wants, their needs; their fears and insecurities. Ipso facto, I therefore know their strengths and the point at which they might break from my influence.
Am I 'manipulating' my target audience...? You're God damned right I am. Am I lying to them therefore...? No, I am not. Which is not to say that I do not use people's self-manipulation to mine own advantage -- because I do, at any and every turn.
__________________________________________
Anyroad, I (not as frequently as I would like) speak to the very wisest man I have ever known. During our most recent conversation, I asked him what it is about the modern world that bothered him the most. His reply was as follows:
"That critical thinking is little more than an eccentricity."
The power of this has hit me only as of late. The shear 'cold-bloodlessness' of it, that is. The many 'hidden' implications of the statement.
Best,
BLIXX
martinmerl
BANNED
- Apr 6, 2011
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This doesn't compare to places like China............
pixelgrinder
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- Apr 1, 2008
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The best 30 minutes you will spend all day.
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bertbaby
Elite Member
- Apr 15, 2009
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Too bad it 's half the truth, eh?
Here 's the response to that crappy propaganda, view it 10 times to absorb it if you don't see what 's going on:
That's because we have had systematic destruction of the American Middle Class and the causes are myriad: a corrupt political system where every politician in Washington starts out middle class and leaves a millionaire, lobbyists that are left unchecked because most are former politicians, CEOs that make millions by outsourcing every job possible to India and China, no effective restraints against monopoly behavior, a Wall Street that is totally disconnected from the American economy and a middle class that doesn't realize the game is rigged against them. I don't blame the rich for playing the game the way they do!
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ShadeDream
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- Nov 27, 2008
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So true.
Some good replies in the past few posts. Nevertheless in the current society it is not possible for everyone to be wealthy, unfortunately if someone is going to be rich, someone must also be poor. If everyone was wealthy and if everyone had money, then money would lose it's value and wealth in terms of the monetary system wouldn't make sense.
jazzc
Elite Member
- Jan 27, 2009
- 2,964
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Cute attempt at diversion by the vid creator, pretty interesting that this vid shows the top 1% pays 37% of all taxes but they get 40% of all income. Seems like they are 3% short.
You didn't pay attention to the first video. The 1% has 24% of the income, not 40%. 40% is the wealth. It 's an income tax, remember? That alone makes your conclusion wrong.
There is also a qualitative response, which I 'll only mention: Income is not taken forcefully from others to be "distributed". Tax is.
- Nov 8, 2009
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Exactly.
You can be anything you want to be. Stop slacking for the first half of your life and then making videos crying about your failure, in the second half of your life.
Jonny Quick
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- Aug 26, 2010
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I'd like to see a class created of people that derive their income from the government, either directly or indirectly, and where they fall on that graph. Call them the "Parasitic Class". I'd bet that one could make the argument that they are the paid enforcement of the unbalanced economy. Note how the mass media goes out of their way at every opportunity to give a verbal blow-job to anyone even remotely connected to the government (police, fire, military, teachers, etc...). Then throw in the "Military Industrial Complex" as well; people whose incomes are completely dependent upon the US's willingness and/or ability to exert military power. (These are the 1st people to start wailing every time someone mentions cutting the military budget.)
In "evil" North Korea, one of the qualities that you must excel in, in order to get a job for the Korean Government is "physical beauty". Why? Because the government there wants to create as positive an impression as they can of the government, so they only hire beautiful people. I just think that in a conversation about wealth, where it is, who has it, how they get it, etc... that everyone should all understand that when government endeavors to "Redistribute the Wealth", the Government Employees and those that get paid by the government are 1st in line, and will always receive the largest share, whether they deserve it or not, and whether they've earned it or not. The word "entitlement" derives from a centuries-long history of nobility and those that have been favored by the nobility, not for what they do, but who they are. There is no relationship between what what they do and what they earn (like it is for everyone else). They are paid based on who the are, which is better than everyone else.
In "evil" North Korea, one of the qualities that you must excel in, in order to get a job for the Korean Government is "physical beauty". Why? Because the government there wants to create as positive an impression as they can of the government, so they only hire beautiful people. I just think that in a conversation about wealth, where it is, who has it, how they get it, etc... that everyone should all understand that when government endeavors to "Redistribute the Wealth", the Government Employees and those that get paid by the government are 1st in line, and will always receive the largest share, whether they deserve it or not, and whether they've earned it or not. The word "entitlement" derives from a centuries-long history of nobility and those that have been favored by the nobility, not for what they do, but who they are. There is no relationship between what what they do and what they earn (like it is for everyone else). They are paid based on who the are, which is better than everyone else.
Ptrick125
Regular Member
- Mar 4, 2013
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Managed to keep a tired teenager to watch the whole thing
Obama and the guy next to him were just staring the whole time /-_-/ /-_-/