If I was rude

[shenacks]

Hello BHW members,

I contacted a client from one of the low paying countries following his thread here on BHW few months ago. I checked his website and it looked like he was serious. I was asked to take a test, which I passed. After the test (that took a whole day to complete), work didn't show up. I ensured that I made my rate clear (1 cent per word minimum and depending on the level of research that the work requires) and it didn't appear as a problem to him. To cut the long story short, he brought a hell of a job to me, which he tagged "a crazy job". He called it crazy because of some kind of fun that I stand to get.
When I ask about the rate, he said 50 cent per hour for up to 16hours a day. I was so disappointed considering the time I have invested. In fact, it doesn't even cater for my daily feeding. I told him that he should know that I would never take such job (not as summarized as this) and he got angry and said that I'm too expensive. I know I'm far from being expensive. I just want to know if I should hang on and hope that he brings a better job someday or I should discard him. But, I know one thing ? I will never write for anybody lower than that rate even if it means to stop writing.

I need your advice.

Thanks.

 

[k0991]

You need to set a rate before hand not go lower than that.

No point agree to something when you won't make anything out of it.

 

[Seadragon]

Get rid, there are plenty of other employers out there that would pay far more and cause less hassle, for your services.

 

[Amsterdammer]

I am in a foul mood but view this as a scam attempt that succeeded.
He tested you, prolly didn't pay for that under the excuse you were tested and now puts you to the curve on the excuse of your rates being too high.
300-500 word articles sell for 3-5 bucks reading the forum. That is one cent a word. Totally not unreasonable. Especially if you don't deliver spun articles.

Again, I am in a foul mood but I'd say you've been scammed sir.

Perhaps you should wait for a few other opinions before you report him. I could be wrong.

EDIT: Google some phrases from your test, he probably used it....

 

[BlueTurtle]

I am in a foul mood but view this as a scam attempt that succeeded.
He tested you, prolly didn't pay for that under the excuse you were tested and now puts you to the curve on the excuse of your rates being too high.
300-500 word articles sell for 3-5 bucks reading the forum. That is one cent a word. Totally not unreasonable. Especially if you don't deliver spun articles.

Again, I am in a foul mood but I'd say you've been scammed sir.

Perhaps you should wait for a few other opinions before you report him. I could be wrong.

EDIT: Google some phrases from your test, he probably used it....

Yep, I agree with amsterdammer. You were scammed.

Don't ever do a full day's work for free for someone. No real employer will ask you to do that for free.

What you do is write 5 different articles for your portfolio. You send those to potential clients as an example of your work.

They'll either hire you for a single article to try you out or not, but don't do any free work for people. Anyone who's serious won't flint an eyelid at having to spend $5 to see if a writer is worth using long-term.

Oh, and your rates are already very very cheap. When I was a writer I was charging $2.5/100 for super-low research content that I could hammer out at a rate of 1000-1500 words per hour and I charged $3-$5/100 for work that required more research. I also charged per word, so if I did 550 words I'd charge $2.5*5.5 = $13.75 rather than just charge for a 500 word article which would have been $12.50. It adds up to quite a bit extra over the week when you do it like that.

 

[shenacks]

Yep, I agree with amsterdammer. You were scammed.

Don't ever do a full day's work for free for someone. No real employer will ask you to do that for free.

What you do is write 5 different articles for your portfolio. You send those to potential clients as an example of your work.

They'll either hire you for a single article to try you out or not, but don't do any free work for people. Anyone who's serious won't flint an eyelid at having to spend $5 to see if a writer is worth using long-term.

Oh, and your rates are already very very cheap. When I was a writer I was charging $2.5/100 for super-low research content that I could hammer out at a rate of 1000-1500 words per hour and I charged $3-$5/100 for work that required more research. I also charged per word, so if I did 550 words I'd charge $2.5*5.5 = $13.75 rather than just charge for a 500 word article which would have been $12.50. It adds up to quite a bit extra over the week when you do it like that.

Yea, I'm cheap. It's a matter of time for that to change. And thanks for the the advice.
cheers

 

[BlueTurtle]

Yea, I'm cheap. It's a matter of time for that to change. And thanks for the the advice.
cheers

You're not rock-bottom cheap, but you're definitely not expensive.

It all depends on your quality. Feel free to pm me a link etc to one of your articles and I'll tell you what I think you can get away with charging.

Also, bhw isn't the best place to find customers. I never have and never would(if I started writing again) take on customers from bhw. It's a different sort of clientele around here and most are only interested in paying as little as possible.

If you're really good then you want to find business clients who'll pay far more, otherwise you want the more whitehat type marketers. Generally people who have authority sites, blogs they care about etc. There's a few around here like that, but most are more interested in volume rather than quality. You want the people who are more interested in customer retention and having content for readers rather than search engines.

Another important thing to understand is that when you price yourself low you have huge huge competition. A lot of people don't understand that and think they'll get more work if they price lower. (You will if you go SUPER low of course like $0.50/100 words, hehe)

People who are interested in quality won't even consider people at $1/100 since they'll assume they're crap. By pricing higher you'll attract different clientele and appear higher quality, but of course you still have to produce the goods to justify your higher price.


Btw, a tip.. Keep your paragraphs really short. Unless you're writing for a very technical article for a highly academic audience go for nice short paragraphs. Generally a sentence is an independent thought, and a paragraph is a related collection of those independent thoughts, but in the real world you can make 2-3 short paragraphs that are a related collection of independent thoughts.

2-3 sentences max per paragraph and keep your sentences quite succinct. People generally have short attention spans so by breaking up your writing into nice little bite-sized chunks you'll keep your readers far more interested. Basically it'll make your article read VERY well and your client will be pleased.

The difference between a great writer and a good writer is that the great writer conveys the information in a more interested/easily digestible way. Don't try to sound smart. Write with 6th graders in mind.



As a side note, this is even more important when writing sales copy. Keep it short, snappy and interesting.


In your original post you should have it like this:

I contacted a client from one of the low paying countries following his thread here on BHW few months ago. I checked his website and it looked like he was serious. I was asked to take a test, which I passed. After the test (that took a whole day to complete), work didn't show up.

I ensured that I made my rate clear (1 cent per word minimum and depending on the level of research that the work requires) and it didn't appear as a problem to him. To cut the long story short, he brought a hell of a job to me, which he tagged "a crazy job". He called it crazy because of some kind of fun that I stand to get.

When I ask about the rate, he said 50 cent per hour for up to 16hours a day. I was so disappointed considering the time I have invested. In fact, it doesn't even cater for my daily feeding. I told him that he should know that I would never take such job (not as summarized as this) and he got angry and said that I'm too expensive.

I know I'm far from being expensive. I just want to know if I should hang on and hope that he brings a better job someday or I should discard him. But, I know one thing - I will never write for anybody lower than that rate even if it means to stop writing.

 

[Amsterdammer]

After a more in depth view of your profile I am not so sure you got scammed.
He was trying to underpay you, even to his own offer it seems, but can't find clear evidence of a scam. Soz. In your story yes, your profile no.
I am getting the feeling there was more said than you are letting on, you also offered a test article to his keyword by choice.

Nevertheless, you should not accept work at the rates mentioned in your original post. That still stands and you were right to refuse.

 

[shenacks]

After a more in depth view of your profile I am not so sure you got scammed.
He was trying to underpay you, even to his own offer it seems, but can't find clear evidence of a scam. Soz. In your story yes, your profile no.
I am getting the feeling there was more said than you are letting on, you also offered a test article to his keyword by choice.

Nevertheless, you should not accept work at the rates mentioned in your original post. That still stands and you were right to refuse.

Amterdammer, I don't seem to understand what you mean by "In your story yes, your profile no". Could your please make that a little clearer.

Thanks

 

[shenacks]

You're not rock-bottom cheap, but you're definitely not expensive.
People who are interested in quality won't even consider people at $1/100 since they'll assume they're crap. By pricing higher you'll attract different clientele and appear higher quality, but of course you still have to produce the goods to justify your higher price.

Thanks Blue turtle. You've been of help. Thing is I've been quite skeptical about writing and posting it somewhere. I simply use my previous works as sample for potential clients.

You are right that most of us think we'll get more jobs by charging low. That's the first lesson for today.

I would love to keep in touch with you. You are that sort of guy that one should always talk to.
Mind if I add you on skype? shenacks

Thanks a bunch.

 

[Amsterdammer]

Amterdammer, I don't seem to understand what you mean by "In your story yes, your profile no". Could your please make that a little clearer.

Thanks

Well, assuming I spotted the right profile by looking at yours:
You offered a test case for a keyword by his choice for free. This is nice, and shows an attitude I like but is not needed as BlueTurtle pointed out, but it takes down a general scammer approach.
I didn't look any further into his profile but he seems to have one happy supplier by judging the thread.
Then, I took a look at your posts and it didn't show a high level of writer skills. Even when it was explained to you by dissection of your own post you failed to see what made you different from a native writer. You showed sales talent though.

I notice by your last post in this thread you are eager to learn and am happy to see that but I am still in doubt whether you were scammed or not. To be honest it makes me wonder what was said between you two and if the guy wasn't just taking you for a ride considering your articles not worth more than that. For the slave wages you say he offered one doesn't need to scam even if all your risking is a newbie account.

The above is just an opinion, not meant to offend you in any way as I do think you are legit.
Also: You asked.
And third: I didn't reread your case, this is just what I can think of from the top of my head while stoned. A sin, me knowz.
And fourth: I didn't mean the above in a bad way, just being honest.

 

[4kbmcc]

I agree that you need to make sure things are clear before going forward with someone. Consider this an education, that's what I've done in the past with similar situations. FYI I am in the need for white hat level articles, if you're interested PM me your rates & contact info

 

[shenacks]

Well, assuming I spotted the right profile by looking at yours:

I didn't look any further into his profile but he seems to have one happy supplier by judging the thread.
Then, I took a look at your posts and it didn't show a high level of writer skills. Even when it was explained to you by dissection of your own post you failed to see what made you different from a native writer. You showed sales talent though.

I notice by your last post in this thread you are eager to learn and am happy to see that but I am still in doubt whether you were scammed or not. To be honest it makes me wonder what was said between you two and if the guy wasn't just taking you for a ride considering your articles not worth more than that. For the slave wages you say he offered one doesn't need to scam even if all your risking is a newbie account.

It's okay Amterdammer. Thanks for your opinion. First, I don't think you saw the profile of the person I'm talking about because he was never involved in any of my thread, neither was I in any of his thread. I didn't reply to the thread. I only checked is skype ID and added him.

You made mention of the possibilities of my articles not being of higher standards than he offered. That's a rash judgement (or opinion). I'm talking about 50cent per hour for goodness sake. Even when I'm working on a $10 per 500word work.

NB: This is a forum and you don't expect me to waste so much time just to prove to you that I am a skilled writer. I write for independent publishing, londonbrokers and textbroker. I don't think the type of writer you are describing can write for the mills.

Thanks anyway.
I took you constructive criticism positively.

 

[BlueTurtle]

Thanks Blue turtle. You've been of help. Thing is I've been quite skeptical about writing and posting it somewhere. I simply use my previous works as sample for potential clients.

You are right that most of us think we'll get more jobs by charging low. That's the first lesson for today.

I would love to keep in touch with you. You are that sort of guy that one should always talk to.
Mind if I add you on skype? shenacks

Thanks a bunch.

I don't use Skype, but you're welcome to pm me here on bhw.

 

[Amsterdammer]

It's okay Amterdammer. Thanks for your opinion. First, I don't think you saw the profile of the person I'm talking about because he was never involved in any of my thread, neither was I in any of his thread. I didn't reply to the thread. I only checked is skype ID and added him.

You made mention of the possibilities of my articles not being of higher standards than he offered. That's a rash judgement (or opinion). I'm talking about 50cent per hour for goodness sake. Even when I'm working on a $10 per 500word work.

NB: This is a forum and you don't expect me to waste so much time just to prove to you that I am a skilled writer. I write for independent publishing, londonbrokers and textbroker. I don't think the type of writer you are describing can write for the mills.

Thanks anyway.
I took you constructive criticism positively.

Glad you took it the way it was intended. Hope you do the same with the below.

I didn't name the profile I spotted as I didn't even want to hint he was at fault. It is not good sportsmanship to throw accusations at people without being able to support the claims.
What triggered me was the possible scam and that was what I was searching for. It didn't add up, the only possible candidate did not look like a scammer to me. I got a funny feeling and that usually spells out disaster later on but he was legit in what I saw.

Considering you, taking one glove off, it would be a change of pace to not post a message in a thread. Not saying your statement is untrue but people are creatures of habit.
Then there is at least one instance of you offering work for free, tailored to a specific keyword of choice. Again, this excludes a general scam approach.

Taking into account you have been a writer for 3 years already, I find the original blob you posted above disturbing. It lacks formatting, has grammar errors and is too long winded to properly convey the intended message.
When someone points out 3 mistakes in a single post you made (102 words) and your response to that is: "But my employer can edit that out" -I rephrased it somewhat- that doesn't look like you are taking pride in your work.
People don't pay you to then edit your work, it should be perfect. You should take pride in what you do. Not just when you are getting paid for it: always. It is a matter of professional pride.

Taking pride will also benefit you in improving your writing skill just like accepting lesser work will hurt overall quality.
To explain that little pride thing another way: Trained chess players will not play lesser opponents if they can avoid it as that hurts their game.

Right now I would spot you as a non native writer a mile away. If the prospected client was looking for a native writer and a penis instead of having one I can see how he would offer that slave wage. Can't say I like the tactic but people are people. Some have a sick sort of humor.

I am not saying you are a bad writer for what you charge per word. Even the bum begging in front of my local supermarket has a higher hourly wage than what say you were offered.
Offering a writer 50 cents makes me want to listen to some of what that great artist said and follow up on it. j/k
You're not writing like "me the good writer!1! ALL Quallitie work for LOW COSTS!!1!! inbox me for rates!!!1 U luf me long time!"

I do not want to flame you, even though I sort of did sadly enough, but give you some valuable advice while explaining I did not come to a unfounded opinion.

You have potential as a writer IMHO but you still have a few things to learn. That does not mean you should be working for 50 cents an hour, 16 hours a day. If it wasn't so funny it would be offensive to offer that to anybody.

What is starting to bug me though, taking the other glove off, are your contradictory statements. You say you like to show previous work but I have it white on black you offered a sample article for free on a keyword by choice. That does not spell out samples of previous work.
When looking at London Brokers their TOS are extremely explicit about hiring non native writers and accepting work under those conditions, as a non native, cannot lead to anything worth experiencing by choice. Not to mention the rates mentioned are even below what you charge and that isn't much to begin with.

You are right though, you have nothing to prove to me. Nor do I to you.
I hope you think about what I posted in a constructive way as it was intended as such.
You look like someone that has potential and a heart in the right place. You also have a few things to learn.

Having said all this I think it is time I tap my Fedora and make an exit. I don't log in to fight with people.
I wish you well, and again, the above is intended to educate you a bit.

Take care.

**action:Tap Fedora and exit /

 

[shenacks]

Glad you took it the way it was intended. Hope you do the same with the below.

I didn't name the profile I spotted as I didn't even want to hint he was at fault. It is not good sportsmanship to throw accusations at people without being able to support the claims.
What triggered me was the possible scam and that was what I was searching for. It didn't add up, the only possible candidate did not look like a scammer to me. I got a funny feeling and that usually spells out disaster later on but he was legit in what I saw.

Considering you, taking one glove off, it would be a change of pace to not post a message in a thread. Not saying your statement is untrue but people are creatures of habit.
Then there is at least one instance of you offering work for free, tailored to a specific keyword of choice. Again, this excludes a general scam approach.

Taking into account you have been a writer for 3 years already, I find the original blob you posted above disturbing. It lacks formatting, has grammar errors and is too long winded to properly convey the intended message.
When someone points out 3 mistakes in a single post you made (102 words) and your response to that is: "But my employer can edit that out" -I rephrased it somewhat- that doesn't look like you are taking pride in your work.
People don't pay you to then edit your work, it should be perfect. You should take pride in what you do. Not just when you are getting paid for it: always. It is a matter of professional pride.

Taking pride will also benefit you in improving your writing skill just like accepting lesser work will hurt overall quality.
To explain that little pride thing another way: Trained chess players will not play lesser opponents if they can avoid it as that hurts their game.

Right now I would spot you as a non native writer a mile away. If the prospected client was looking for a native writer and a penis instead of having one I can see how he would offer that slave wage. Can't say I like the tactic but people are people. Some have a sick sort of humor.

I am not saying you are a bad writer for what you charge per word. Even the bum begging in front of my local supermarket has a higher hourly wage than what say you were offered.
Offering a writer 50 cents makes me want to listen to some of what that great artist said and follow up on it. j/k
You're not writing like "me the good writer!1! ALL Quallitie work for LOW COSTS!!1!! inbox me for rates!!!1 U luf me long time!"

I do not want to flame you, even though I sort of did sadly enough, but give you some valuable advice while explaining I did not come to a unfounded opinion.

You have potential as a writer IMHO but you still have a few things to learn. That does not mean you should be working for 50 cents an hour, 16 hours a day. If it wasn't so funny it would be offensive to offer that to anybody.

What is starting to bug me though, taking the other glove off, are your contradictory statements. You say you like to show previous work but I have it white on black you offered a sample article for free on a keyword by choice. That does not spell out samples of previous work.
When looking at London Brokers their TOS are extremely explicit about hiring non native writers and accepting work under those conditions, as a non native, cannot lead to anything worth experiencing by choice. Not to mention the rates mentioned are even below what you charge and that isn't much to begin with.

You are right though, you have nothing to prove to me. Nor do I to you.
I hope you think about what I posted in a constructive way as it was intended as such.
You look like someone that has potential and a heart in the right place. You also have a few things to learn.

Having said all this I think it is time I tap my Fedora and make an exit. I don't log in to fight with people.
I wish you well, and again, the above is intended to educate you a bit.

Take care.

**action:Tap Fedora and exit /

[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
You are going out and I'm coming in.

What a long epistle you've got in there. We can play this game of exchanging of words till goodness knows when if you so wish.

First off, I'll react on the part where you called my posts blob. I guess you are the number one grammarian in the writing industry since your writings are free from errors and they are well formatted as I can see in your 750-word epistle.

I was going to write an epistle as well, but at this point, I think it is pointless trading words with you. Just keep having fun criticizing people. You'll only us better and you'll remain at the same spot.

I meant to thank you, so please take it as that.

And I'll keep learning as you suggested.

 

[OldLord]

Yeah, no doubt about it, you got scammed. He's had a day's worth of work out of you for no money under the guise of a test. Then once he informs you that you have passed the test, he eventually throws some work at you for probably less money than it would cost to run your electricity costs for the period of that work. I'm willing to bet that he told everyone who took the test that they had passed, and threw some more garbage work their way for pennies - that way he builds up a bunch of content for virtually no cost, and doesn't need to worry about people complaining. The moral of the story is "don't work for free", even if someone says there will be well paid work at the end.

 

[Beingakrant]

You're not rock-bottom cheap, but you're definitely not expensive.

It all depends on your quality. Feel free to pm me a link etc to one of your articles and I'll tell you what I think you can get away with charging.

Also, bhw isn't the best place to find customers. I never have and never would(if I started writing again) take on customers from bhw. It's a different sort of clientele around here and most are only interested in paying as little as possible.

If you're really good then you want to find business clients who'll pay far more, otherwise you want the more whitehat type marketers. Generally people who have authority sites, blogs they care about etc. There's a few around here like that, but most are more interested in volume rather than quality. You want the people who are more interested in customer retention and having content for readers rather than search engines.

Another important thing to understand is that when you price yourself low you have huge huge competition. A lot of people don't understand that and think they'll get more work if they price lower. (You will if you go SUPER low of course like $0.50/100 words, hehe)

People who are interested in quality won't even consider people at $1/100 since they'll assume they're crap. By pricing higher you'll attract different clientele and appear higher quality, but of course you still have to produce the goods to justify your higher price.


Btw, a tip.. Keep your paragraphs really short. Unless you're writing for a very technical article for a highly academic audience go for nice short paragraphs. Generally a sentence is an independent thought, and a paragraph is a related collection of those independent thoughts, but in the real world you can make 2-3 short paragraphs that are a related collection of independent thoughts.

2-3 sentences max per paragraph and keep your sentences quite succinct. People generally have short attention spans so by breaking up your writing into nice little bite-sized chunks you'll keep your readers far more interested. Basically it'll make your article read VERY well and your client will be pleased.

The difference between a great writer and a good writer is that the great writer conveys the information in a more interested/easily digestible way. Don't try to sound smart. Write with 6th graders in mind.



As a side note, this is even more important when writing sales copy. Keep it short, snappy and interesting.


In your original post you should have it like this:

+Rep for your tips & suggestions.

Cheers

 

[B. Friendly]

You've paid a full day's time & effort for this lesson. Now you get to decide how much you've learned. You can choose to learn little or nothing, in which case you've wasted your investment, or you can maximize this lesson and make it pay off times 1000.

Painful lessons are the best, because they are the easiest to remember.

 

[Kaiwa]

Hi. Anyone wana write me an ebook on Nutrition for about $400-$500?