First let me tell you debates are good, so my appreciation for engaging into that.
It is good to explore more views.
Now I'll try to bring my opinions:
The key word here is 'machine'. We built machines since centuries, it is true electricity and coding (programming) arrived more recently, and the later keeps evolving.
However, coding is a set of our rules that instructs the machine.
The only way humans can create other conscious entities is by procreation.
AI becoming better than humans said with a period at the end is highly wrong. It is and will become better than humans in certain fields.
About art, yes it makes quick and impressive generations, but in art, speed does not relate to better. I have studied art and did play a lot with midjourney/stablediffusion, and as my kindest comment is they are great for idea exploration, but are bad copiers of styles.
Always has been like this: poor become poorer and rich richer. AI will likely not change that.
I can code a bot to add a random colored dot to the same picture in a loop resulting in technically unique images. Does this makes it special? AI generators are just that but in a more complex way.
While AI also came by 'natural processes' (being created by us at some point during our evolution), you're missing a point: We were not created by us, but AI was, so this makes it our tool.
Part of consciousness is our ability to make stories about our past. For an AI to have the same function, we need to feed it certain stories or capability of story generation.
If you didn't had a soul, you wouldn't tried so hard to push your points of view. Let that sink in.
There's not doubt about it. That's why like I said above, it is our tool, and one of the greatest in a positive way hopefully.
This doesn't make a stainless steel heater, breath, live, and die. Try it, buy one and let it sit in a room, then observe its life, consciousness, or other properties. It takes 1000 years to decompose in natural materials (thus finally 'die'), depending where it is stored, and that's all about it.
What you bring in is what you get out. Be mean, life will be mean with you. Be kind, life will be kind to you. It sounds like a great order to me.
Anyways those are my points and I'm eager to see your replies.
Hopefully this thread stays in a friendly mood with no personal attacks, friendly debating is good for the mind.
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"The key word here is 'machine'"
sure that argument can be used against humans too. we are technically biological machines.
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"The only way humans can create other conscious entities is by procreation."
false that is a bold assertion not accepted by the scientific consensus.
first of all you cant empirically prove that other humans are conscious. you can only make
a reasonable deduction based on first hand reports and indirect evidence, like the behaviors of consciousness.
consciousness is an emergent phenomena and it is likely that you cannot rule out
consciousness in computers and AI.
this is the current view in the consensus based on evidence.
your opinions don't matter. debunked
SOURCE:
The measurement of consciousness: a framework for the scientific study of consciousness:
(Consciousness can only be measured through first-person reports):
(consciousness is an internal subjective state and cannot be empirically proven)(academic sources):
(you can't know if computers are not conscious and how it is an emergent phenomena)(academic sources):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4091309/key highlight of this academic journal:
"A number of assumptions are needed to handle the fact that a brain's consciousness
can only be measured indirectly through first person reports, which can also be generated
by systems that are not typically thought to be conscious, such as computers. It is also
necessary to assume that consciousness cannot vary independently of our measurement of it,
which would undermine our ability to study consciousness scientifically."
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"it is true electricity "
sure human brain works on electricity too, so that would mean it is not conscious? xD
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"It is and will become better than humans in certain fields"
false it will be able to outperform human in every field that requires intelligence.
humans,biological organisms and AI have the same principle of re-inforcement learning.
what humans will be able to learn, AI will be able to learn, and even better due to its superior hardware and processing.
because the fundamental principle is same, what humans can do will not be technically impossible for AI,
given increasing improvement of hardware.
debunked.
SOURCE:
Reinforcement learning in artificial and biological systems 9:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s42256-019-0025-4
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" have studied art and did play a lot with midjourney/stablediffusion, and as my kindest comment is they are great for idea exploration, but are bad copiers of styles"
false again, AI is able to create abstract art outputs. not just simply copy styles of others. it can do completely new things based on prompt.
secondly it is your subjective opinion that it is "bad", when the current state of mid journey is literally demolishing the quality of what one artist can produce in several hours or days, in just a few seconds.
midjourney is able to produce super high resolution photo-realistic images, that look like it is coming right out of a camera photograph.
debunked.
SOURCE:
AI creates Abstract Art like humans(novel)(Google Imagen AI):
google's official site news:
https://imagen.research.google/academic journal about imagen:
https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/35898
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"I can code a bot to add a random colored dot to the same picture in a loop resulting in technically unique images. Does this makes it special? AI generators are just that but in a more complex way."
yes congrats you answered your own question and debunked yourself. humans are exactly that, producing art in a more "complex" way,
which is exactly what AI does, and has matched. LOL.
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"Part of consciousness is our ability to make stories about our past. For an AI to have the same function, we need to feed it certain stories or capability of story generation."
AI already has the capability of story generation. and for the stories or past experiences, AI already has past experiences stored in its memory, which is how it learns via reinforcement learning and avoids future errors by recalling its past experiences, just like humans.
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"This doesn't make a stainless steel heater, breath, live, and die"
the sun produces heat and light, which are emergent properties of its composition.
a light bulb which is artificially created, also has emergent properties like heat and light.
both the sun and light bulb do not have the exact same composition, yet the emergent output of heat and light is produced in both cases.
same can be said about consciousness. it is an emergent phenomena. does not mean that only breathing and living things can produce consciousness lol.
there is no evidence of such a thing.
debunked.
SOURCE:
The measurement of consciousness: a framework for the scientific study of consciousness:
(Consciousness can only be measured through first-person reports):
(consciousness is an internal subjective state and cannot be empirically proven)(academic sources):
(you can't know if computers are not conscious and how it is an emergent phenomena)(academic sources):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4091309/key highlight of this academic journal:
"A number of assumptions are needed to handle the fact that a brain's consciousness
can only be measured indirectly through first person reports, which can also be generated
by systems that are not typically thought to be conscious, such as computers. It is also
necessary to assume that consciousness cannot vary independently of our measurement of it,
which would undermine our ability to study consciousness scientifically."
Phenomenal Consciousness and Emergence:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7304239/key highlights of the journal:
"In this paper we use some ideas of complex system theory to trace the emergent features of life and then of complex brains
through three progressive stages or levels: Level 1 (life), Level 2 (nervous systems), and Level 3 (special neurobiological features),
each representing increasing biological and neurobiological complexity and ultimately leading to the emergence of phenomenal
consciousness,
all in physical systems. Along the way we show that consciousness fits the criteria of an emergent property—albeit one with extreme
complexity"
Consciousness as an Emergent Phenomenon:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7597170/key highlights of the journal:
"A crucial element in connectionists approaches is that consciousness appears as an emergent property
of large neuronal networks, requiring the interaction of neurons to form a web sufficiently complex
such as to sustain conscious experiences"
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