charlesbrunkle
Registered Member
- Dec 11, 2009
- 88
- 26
oh well............. "the man" wins again. I signed the document.
They are going after my domain!!!
- Thread starter charlesbrunkle
- Start date
bizilux
Senior Member
- Apr 19, 2009
- 880
- 232
fuckers, like they dont have enough money, besides... they get % from every sale you make anyways... stupid people
tonlilaz
Elite Member
- Feb 28, 2008
- 1,520
- 1,732
i've had this happen to me before.....the one threat came a few months ago from the realtors association for using the the word 'realtor' in my domain name. who knew 'realtor' was a trademark term
in this case, i just removed all advertising from the site, i made money primarily from text link ads, not google ads or anything....so if they were to go to the site, it's just an information site.
trademark laws have changed a lot in the past couple of years...and i think there are some instances in which you can use a trademark term in a domain....for a review site for example. i'm not 100% sure about this, but i suggest you do some research to find out.
if the trademark owner's not willing to compromise with you, just park the domain w/a reasonable price tag. if you try to charge an unreasonable amount then it'll look like you're cyber squatting...
in this case, i just removed all advertising from the site, i made money primarily from text link ads, not google ads or anything....so if they were to go to the site, it's just an information site.
trademark laws have changed a lot in the past couple of years...and i think there are some instances in which you can use a trademark term in a domain....for a review site for example. i'm not 100% sure about this, but i suggest you do some research to find out.
if the trademark owner's not willing to compromise with you, just park the domain w/a reasonable price tag. if you try to charge an unreasonable amount then it'll look like you're cyber squatting...
varundbest
Power Member
- Oct 15, 2009
- 762
- 499
wtf! You are trying to fight with umbro! They are like reebok guys. Do one thing if nothing ele work (only if nothing else works) Take a backup of your website asap, get a new domain, verify both domains with google webmaster tools and then redirect the old domain to new one (301) and tell google via webmaster tools. Google will setup everything within 1 month
(generally)charlesbrunkle
Registered Member
- Dec 11, 2009
- 88
- 26
yeh I did, I saved the files. Now all I can do is put all the pages is some other domain and start again.........
cheaplaser
Junior Member
- Mar 3, 2007
- 124
- 67
If they wanted the domain name so bad, when didnt they purchase it before you. I say fuck them, you shouldve sold the domain on dp....LOL
at least you wouldve made money
Or redirect it to gay porn site, but i wouldnt let them have it
at least you wouldve made money
Or redirect it to gay porn site, but i wouldnt let them have it
SpiderWebMaster
Power Member
- Jan 24, 2009
- 628
- 530
wtf! You are trying to fight with umbro! They are like reebok guys. Do one thing if nothing ele work (only if nothing else works) Take a backup of your website asap, get a new domain, verify both domains with google webmaster tools and then redirect the old domain to new one (301) and tell google via webmaster tools. Google will setup everything within 1 month
the best advice someone could give you... this tip should be stickied...:biggthump
varundbest
Power Member
- Oct 15, 2009
- 762
- 499
LOL @ people saying he should tell them to F off.
Ok..Here's the ramifications of who's he's against and why he should just hope they will make him an offer:
1. His domain has the TRADEMARK of "umbro" in it. That's the same as you going to register micros0ft*com ...Because you put a 0 in it doesn't make it different than micro*soft*com.
2. He's in the UK. They have trademark laws genius.
3. Ignoring letters will only land him with a default judgment in court WHEN they choose to go this way.
4. If the domain is .com, .org, .net they'll knock on ICANN's door and get that domain terminated or transferred IF they can't pursue the registry company to hand it over after the court order.
5. They may sue you for "treple damages" to their brand (I'LL LULZ CUS THAT'S WHAT THEY'LL DO WHEN YOU PISS THEM OFF ENOUGH) and then you probably need to fight them in court, pocketing out your 400 bucks.
6. Fact is also that the name was registered AFTER the Umbro(TM)...This means you pretty much have a bad case. Go ask Ricklatona.com if they want to buy it off you for a dollar and you'll get the answer you pretty much don't want to hear.
My experience when Goliath (Umbro) fights David (you)...Just let Goliath win. It doesn't always end like in the fairytales (that David wins), so you're better off just giving them that domain and part ways.
Ok..Here's the ramifications of who's he's against and why he should just hope they will make him an offer:
1. His domain has the TRADEMARK of "umbro" in it. That's the same as you going to register micros0ft*com ...Because you put a 0 in it doesn't make it different than micro*soft*com.
2. He's in the UK. They have trademark laws genius.
3. Ignoring letters will only land him with a default judgment in court WHEN they choose to go this way.
4. If the domain is .com, .org, .net they'll knock on ICANN's door and get that domain terminated or transferred IF they can't pursue the registry company to hand it over after the court order.
5. They may sue you for "treple damages" to their brand (I'LL LULZ CUS THAT'S WHAT THEY'LL DO WHEN YOU PISS THEM OFF ENOUGH) and then you probably need to fight them in court, pocketing out your 400 bucks.
6. Fact is also that the name was registered AFTER the Umbro(TM)...This means you pretty much have a bad case. Go ask Ricklatona.com if they want to buy it off you for a dollar and you'll get the answer you pretty much don't want to hear.
My experience when Goliath (Umbro) fights David (you)...Just let Goliath win. It doesn't always end like in the fairytales (that David wins), so you're better off just giving them that domain and part ways.
Last edited:
You forgot the most important words...."Or run out of money".
Hiring an attorney is unfortunately not the same as going down to Oxfam and buying their clothes
thehilitereel
Registered Member
- Dec 30, 2008
- 98
- 69
varundbest
Power Member
- Oct 15, 2009
- 762
- 499
You can do another thing like if the domain is mumbros dot com then you can do mum bros. Just make a new meaning of the domain and have fun!
When Goliath turns around, you can hit him in the head with your slingshot
And if you do that that's when Goliath won't spare your life this time and will most likely stomp you until you're as flat as the earth...In other words they'll make you have bad credit for the rest of your life.
varundbest
Power Member
- Oct 15, 2009
- 762
- 499
he is fighting with umbro.
Yeh but Nike owns Umbro, so it is usually the same lawyers who represents them.
varundbest
Power Member
- Oct 15, 2009
- 762
- 499
ouch then he have to stick with one of the suggestions which i gave.
OldSchooler
Junior Member
- Jan 16, 2010
- 108
- 20
Talking from experience -
You get a template C&D (cease and desist) from Typo/Brand Parent company. Bla bla bla, ?stop using our domain, hand it over?, and they cite a bunch of case law.
This is ONLY my opinion; you ultimately should seek legal advice from an attorney. So with this said, this is my opinion of what you or someone should do.
Ignore it. 9 out of 10 C&Ds are boiler plate/template letters. When they send them out usually they go out in batches. They hit all the typo variations of a domain and registered domains with their trademark in the brand. In order to maintain a trademark you just can't register it and forget about it, you have to actively protect it or it could later be shown that you didn't care about it, wasn't concern about it being used without your consent, etc. This rings true mainly for large well known trademarks. At least this is what most attorneys, good ones, tell their clients. CHURN the billable hours!
Attorney to trademark owner - "You need to protect your trademark. Want us to handle this?" - Most of the time the answer is YES, of course.
7 out of 10 times you'll get, within 3 to 5 months another letter. Sometimes it?s the exact same letter, other times its more threatening. You have x number of days, bla bla bla.
4 out of 10 times after this anywhere between 1 to 5 months later they'll file a WIPO for the domain. The fees to file a WIPO (I'm ball parking, I can't recall the exact number) are like $1,300. Now add on $2K to $3K in legal fees for the trademark holder - no shit. You think attorneys are cheap? Now they're filing and requesting 1 arbitrator. Want 2 more to hear the compliant, add even more money.
The other 6 out of 10 times, you won?t hear from them again. They did what they set out to do, actively protect their trademark.
At this point the domain will be gone within 2 to 4 months since of course you're using the domain in bad faith. You?ll lose the WIPO decision. Come on, you have no legal right to use the trademark. Don?t sit around and try to rationalize it, it is what it is.
At this point you can ignore the second letter or offer the domain up for say $700. ?I stopped using the domain. If you still want it I need to cover my administration costs, $700 should do it. Otherwise just file a WIPO and pay double that in filing fees.? Guess what? They have to provide that letter to their client. This then opens their eyes. Hmm, it?s in the best interest of my shareholders to acquire the domain for $700 instead of paying $1,300 or so dollars to file WIPO and double that for the attorney costs involved.
Now about 30% of the time you?ll get an attorney that will convince his client to just file the WIPO. LOL It really blows my mind how some corporations operate, not in the best interest of the shareholders. If they come back and offer you a little less, take it. The attorney just made the difference in the offer/counter writing you the letter.
Now of course some attorneys will go after domains for clients and have a weak case. Example - Let?s say you own the typo for ocean dot com. It's oocean dot com. And you have it landing on vacation ads. Now some company named Ocean Travel comes along and they want the domain. The word "ocean" is generic (descriptive), it?s related to vacations, beaches are a popular vacation destination. 9 out of 10 times they will lose this WIPO UNLESS they can show another form of bad faith on your part other than you just landing it on vacation ads. For example if you?re landing it solely on Ocean Travel ads. Then it could go either way, a WIPO decision.
I read a lot of guys mentioning ?they will sue you, fight them in court.? First off the VAST majority file WIPO when they decide to go after a domain, instead of a suit. Place yourself in the mindset of the trademark holder. They don't want to spend in the tens of thousands of dollars just to secure 1 out of a million domains that could include their trademark. Think about it, all the different combinations of words, letters included with the trademark in a domain. Or typo variations, how many typo variations do you think are involved with a 10 letter domain? You're looking at 50-100 depending on what you consider a typo.
90% of the attorneys out there don't have a damn clue on how to handle this sort of situation - domain trademark violation. They have a paralegal research it and that's how they stumble upon the WIPO option. WIPO is a much easier thing to convince a client to do then filing suit.
Filing a lawsuit is a huge deal. It involves a major financial commitment on the plaintiff?s part to see it through - EVEN if you don't respond. Think about it. Legal arguments drawn up - Cha Ching. Then have it filed in the right venue. Well that venue may end up being wrong, did their lawyer know that? If he did he is simply churning hours. If he didn't still it?s more billable hours. You get the idea. They have to SERVE YOU with the suit. This cost money. Especially if you?re out of the COUNTRY! Come on guys. I could go on and on, the bills add way up to get a judgment. Side note ? What the hell are you thinking when you accept a certified letter or a Fedex from a company that looks like a trademark domain you?re holding, or from an legal office ? TURN THEM DOWN. WTF. Don?t sign for anything.
The trademark holder just wants the domain. If you ever actually get sued, just throw your arms up and say "my bad, here you go". Guess what. Unless you flaunt your wealth, act like Mr. Money bags, majority of the time they drop the suit. If you toy with them, get an attorney, guess what? Your attorney needs to feed his kids, is his true interest really in helping you settle the case quickly?
Now if you find a legit attorney, explain out of the gate that you have zero money, zero assets. Here is a $500 retainer it?s all I got, make this go away. He gets on the phone with the plaintiffs? attorney and says ?Hey, what do we have here. My client is willing to give you the domain. He doesn?t have any money to fight the case.? Think about this, you can do this yourself and save $500 bucks. You could do it via email; you don?t have to call them. They will demand ? we want to see what type of money you?ve been making on this, we want this and that. Just unlock the domain, send them the transfer code, and say ?I?m sorry, I?m just a poor college kid, didn?t realize I could get in trouble for this.? They may continue to send you letters and let the trial seem to continue on ? ATTORNEYS are notorious for DRAGGING THEIR FEET. The next thing you know it all went away. They have what they wanted the domain, why churn bills to get nothing? Remember you have nothing for them to get.
Only 5% of all suit filed in the USA ever go to trial. But you'll be surprised how many go right up to the week of trial, or even the day before the trial begins. CHURN CHURN CHURN. But this only happens when both parties are feeding the legal machine!
Why would a company pay in the tens of thousands of dollars to sue you with the intention of seeing it through when all they really want is the domain? What do they have to gain? What are they going to get from you? You don't sue someone that has nothing or is thought to more than likely really have nothing to go after, asset wise. AND EVEN THEN it?s another round of tens of thousands of dollars to effectively collect on a judgment (financial, not a domain).
Again this is solely my opinion. I?M NOT AN ATTORNEY. Take it or leave it. I hope this helps.
OldSchooler
You get a template C&D (cease and desist) from Typo/Brand Parent company. Bla bla bla, ?stop using our domain, hand it over?, and they cite a bunch of case law.
This is ONLY my opinion; you ultimately should seek legal advice from an attorney. So with this said, this is my opinion of what you or someone should do.
Ignore it. 9 out of 10 C&Ds are boiler plate/template letters. When they send them out usually they go out in batches. They hit all the typo variations of a domain and registered domains with their trademark in the brand. In order to maintain a trademark you just can't register it and forget about it, you have to actively protect it or it could later be shown that you didn't care about it, wasn't concern about it being used without your consent, etc. This rings true mainly for large well known trademarks. At least this is what most attorneys, good ones, tell their clients. CHURN the billable hours!
Attorney to trademark owner - "You need to protect your trademark. Want us to handle this?" - Most of the time the answer is YES, of course.
7 out of 10 times you'll get, within 3 to 5 months another letter. Sometimes it?s the exact same letter, other times its more threatening. You have x number of days, bla bla bla.
4 out of 10 times after this anywhere between 1 to 5 months later they'll file a WIPO for the domain. The fees to file a WIPO (I'm ball parking, I can't recall the exact number) are like $1,300. Now add on $2K to $3K in legal fees for the trademark holder - no shit. You think attorneys are cheap? Now they're filing and requesting 1 arbitrator. Want 2 more to hear the compliant, add even more money.
The other 6 out of 10 times, you won?t hear from them again. They did what they set out to do, actively protect their trademark.
At this point the domain will be gone within 2 to 4 months since of course you're using the domain in bad faith. You?ll lose the WIPO decision. Come on, you have no legal right to use the trademark. Don?t sit around and try to rationalize it, it is what it is.
At this point you can ignore the second letter or offer the domain up for say $700. ?I stopped using the domain. If you still want it I need to cover my administration costs, $700 should do it. Otherwise just file a WIPO and pay double that in filing fees.? Guess what? They have to provide that letter to their client. This then opens their eyes. Hmm, it?s in the best interest of my shareholders to acquire the domain for $700 instead of paying $1,300 or so dollars to file WIPO and double that for the attorney costs involved.
Now about 30% of the time you?ll get an attorney that will convince his client to just file the WIPO. LOL It really blows my mind how some corporations operate, not in the best interest of the shareholders. If they come back and offer you a little less, take it. The attorney just made the difference in the offer/counter writing you the letter.
Now of course some attorneys will go after domains for clients and have a weak case. Example - Let?s say you own the typo for ocean dot com. It's oocean dot com. And you have it landing on vacation ads. Now some company named Ocean Travel comes along and they want the domain. The word "ocean" is generic (descriptive), it?s related to vacations, beaches are a popular vacation destination. 9 out of 10 times they will lose this WIPO UNLESS they can show another form of bad faith on your part other than you just landing it on vacation ads. For example if you?re landing it solely on Ocean Travel ads. Then it could go either way, a WIPO decision.
I read a lot of guys mentioning ?they will sue you, fight them in court.? First off the VAST majority file WIPO when they decide to go after a domain, instead of a suit. Place yourself in the mindset of the trademark holder. They don't want to spend in the tens of thousands of dollars just to secure 1 out of a million domains that could include their trademark. Think about it, all the different combinations of words, letters included with the trademark in a domain. Or typo variations, how many typo variations do you think are involved with a 10 letter domain? You're looking at 50-100 depending on what you consider a typo.
90% of the attorneys out there don't have a damn clue on how to handle this sort of situation - domain trademark violation. They have a paralegal research it and that's how they stumble upon the WIPO option. WIPO is a much easier thing to convince a client to do then filing suit.
Filing a lawsuit is a huge deal. It involves a major financial commitment on the plaintiff?s part to see it through - EVEN if you don't respond. Think about it. Legal arguments drawn up - Cha Ching. Then have it filed in the right venue. Well that venue may end up being wrong, did their lawyer know that? If he did he is simply churning hours. If he didn't still it?s more billable hours. You get the idea. They have to SERVE YOU with the suit. This cost money. Especially if you?re out of the COUNTRY! Come on guys. I could go on and on, the bills add way up to get a judgment. Side note ? What the hell are you thinking when you accept a certified letter or a Fedex from a company that looks like a trademark domain you?re holding, or from an legal office ? TURN THEM DOWN. WTF. Don?t sign for anything.
The trademark holder just wants the domain. If you ever actually get sued, just throw your arms up and say "my bad, here you go". Guess what. Unless you flaunt your wealth, act like Mr. Money bags, majority of the time they drop the suit. If you toy with them, get an attorney, guess what? Your attorney needs to feed his kids, is his true interest really in helping you settle the case quickly?
Now if you find a legit attorney, explain out of the gate that you have zero money, zero assets. Here is a $500 retainer it?s all I got, make this go away. He gets on the phone with the plaintiffs? attorney and says ?Hey, what do we have here. My client is willing to give you the domain. He doesn?t have any money to fight the case.? Think about this, you can do this yourself and save $500 bucks. You could do it via email; you don?t have to call them. They will demand ? we want to see what type of money you?ve been making on this, we want this and that. Just unlock the domain, send them the transfer code, and say ?I?m sorry, I?m just a poor college kid, didn?t realize I could get in trouble for this.? They may continue to send you letters and let the trial seem to continue on ? ATTORNEYS are notorious for DRAGGING THEIR FEET. The next thing you know it all went away. They have what they wanted the domain, why churn bills to get nothing? Remember you have nothing for them to get.
Only 5% of all suit filed in the USA ever go to trial. But you'll be surprised how many go right up to the week of trial, or even the day before the trial begins. CHURN CHURN CHURN. But this only happens when both parties are feeding the legal machine!
Why would a company pay in the tens of thousands of dollars to sue you with the intention of seeing it through when all they really want is the domain? What do they have to gain? What are they going to get from you? You don't sue someone that has nothing or is thought to more than likely really have nothing to go after, asset wise. AND EVEN THEN it?s another round of tens of thousands of dollars to effectively collect on a judgment (financial, not a domain).
Again this is solely my opinion. I?M NOT AN ATTORNEY. Take it or leave it. I hope this helps.
OldSchooler
