Usually the advertiser themselves either runs their own traffic in a channel they dont allow or the quality of traffic from that channel isnt good for them which is why they dont allow it. Usually its because the advertiser does it themselves which is why you see search as a method not allowed most of the time.
How e-mail submits work and why you get scrubbed
- Thread starter mkrongel
- Start date
Usually the advertiser themselves either runs their own traffic in a channel they dont allow or the quality of traffic from that channel isnt good for them which is why they dont allow it. Usually its because the advertiser does it themselves which is why you see search as a method not allowed most of the time.
I had been using affiliate.com
I have about 100 to 200 clicks daily on the email submit offer pays 1.5$ per 1st page email submit
But why none of them ever convert
The scenario is 1st page .. email submit
2nd page asks for personal details (name / address / zip etc )
WTF never ever even i got a single email submit converted
Any help why dont i get any leads and always the revenue shows 0 (zero)
Your traffic could suck, the offer could not be tracking (have you tested filling out a lead on the offer?), or you could be getting scrubbed
Leads Provider
Junior Member
- Jun 5, 2009
- 101
- 11
Mkrongel , is it true to promote an offer in any promotional method , as long as the advertiser does not have any problem with the quality???
Many guys in AM told me what matters a network is that advertiser should not have a complain about the quality of the leads...
What if a network discovers that so on so Affiliate is doing BH stuff ( obvsly nt anything illegal ) and when cross-checked with the advertiser , had no quality problem...??? meaning advertiser is happy about the quality and NETWORD DOES NOT accept the (PROMOTING AFFILIATE 's ) promotion methods..??? ( NOTHING Spamming or craiglist thou.... )
I have this doubt , i know i could have PMd you..... but still.
Many guys in AM told me what matters a network is that advertiser should not have a complain about the quality of the leads...
What if a network discovers that so on so Affiliate is doing BH stuff ( obvsly nt anything illegal ) and when cross-checked with the advertiser , had no quality problem...??? meaning advertiser is happy about the quality and NETWORD DOES NOT accept the (PROMOTING AFFILIATE 's ) promotion methods..??? ( NOTHING Spamming or craiglist thou.... )
I have this doubt , i know i could have PMd you..... but still.
If someone posted the answer to your question, there would be no "best" networks left. Don't ruin it for those of us who actually send legitimate leads!
I'm sick of my blackberry's lame ass browser!
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Hi All,
Also one of my first posts to the network. I'm an extremely seasoned marketer and am finally coming out of the woodwork to contribute
Anyhow, I recently stumbled across the following aff network that does a ton of email submits:
x3network.com
I haven't run anything from them yet, but who knows... might be okay.
RE email submits... scrubbing is just a part of that side of the biz (even with ZIP submits as well). I generally try to stay away from them unless I have a channel that requires a really short form conversion, generally 'organiccy' traffic. I will never send any traffic that has mid+ overhead to ANY email/zip submit page since it's so hard to forecast.
Also one of my first posts to the network. I'm an extremely seasoned marketer and am finally coming out of the woodwork to contribute
Anyhow, I recently stumbled across the following aff network that does a ton of email submits:
x3network.com
I haven't run anything from them yet, but who knows... might be okay.
RE email submits... scrubbing is just a part of that side of the biz (even with ZIP submits as well). I generally try to stay away from them unless I have a channel that requires a really short form conversion, generally 'organiccy' traffic. I will never send any traffic that has mid+ overhead to ANY email/zip submit page since it's so hard to forecast.
As an FYI we dont accept black hat traffic, i am only here to inform the members that we ONLY accept white hat traffic, BH methods will get you banned at Copeac
And sometimes even whitehat methods will get you banned!
odysseus11
Junior Member
- May 9, 2007
- 126
- 30
I actually appreciate your honesty too.
However, from the point of view of one of the affiliates, like most people who will read this, let me say the following, from experience. And although I have never been a COPEAC afilliate, I have been in the biz for a long time and know personally most of the owners of most shops:
First of all, I agree that usually it is the advertiser, NOT the network that does the scrubbing. HOWEVER, the network usually has the technical ability to scrub/shave also if they are dishonest, as I have found many to be. But larger, more established networks generally speaking will not shave/scrub the leads. The ADVERTISERS on the other hand....
it boggles my mind that they can essentially steal and call it something as cute and innocent sounding as "scrubbbing" or "shaving". It is STEALING and CHEATING. No more, no less. WHY do they do it? Because they can! Are they justified sometimes because of fraud and such...no, that is BS. The bottom line is that they can only make money if they pay something like .03-.05 per click (varying slightly with the quality of your traffic, but they dont even bother to really analyze yours vs any other affiliate any longer). HOWEVER, they need affiliates to push traffic, so they offer $1.30 or $1.50 or whatever ridiculous payout they need to offer to get and keep active affiliates.
When the traffic starts, u will notice EPC's of often .25 to .30 for the first hour or two.
BUT THEN if you watch, you will see that they very obviously set a "target" EPC, which will control the pixel firing so that they end up paying their target EPC (which I have found to generally between .02-.04 for good offers) within 24 or so hours.
I have tested this extensively and in a detailed fashion with a dozen or so networks and dozens of offers on each. This is the normal course of events for the BEST ones. WITHOUT EXCEPTION. So if you see a first-hour conversion of 20% or something, EXPECT to see 2% within a day or so. GUARANTEED.
Dont whine about it, dont bother complaining, just realize that the actual long-term yield on the email/zip submits nowadays is .02-.04 per click. PERIOD. And thats with good white-hat methods. BH will introduce the extra risk and hassle of termination and banning on top of this lowly pay, so I dont bother with that.
Just accept it, use that revenue figure as the basis of your expectations, and move on. You only need to drop offers where the EPC drops below .02 and fill with new ones coming online (where they will promptly drop to the .02-.04 EPC).
Truth hurts, but there it is. If .02-.04 EPC isnt worth your efforts, dont do it.
Odysseus
However, from the point of view of one of the affiliates, like most people who will read this, let me say the following, from experience. And although I have never been a COPEAC afilliate, I have been in the biz for a long time and know personally most of the owners of most shops:
First of all, I agree that usually it is the advertiser, NOT the network that does the scrubbing. HOWEVER, the network usually has the technical ability to scrub/shave also if they are dishonest, as I have found many to be. But larger, more established networks generally speaking will not shave/scrub the leads. The ADVERTISERS on the other hand....
it boggles my mind that they can essentially steal and call it something as cute and innocent sounding as "scrubbbing" or "shaving". It is STEALING and CHEATING. No more, no less. WHY do they do it? Because they can! Are they justified sometimes because of fraud and such...no, that is BS. The bottom line is that they can only make money if they pay something like .03-.05 per click (varying slightly with the quality of your traffic, but they dont even bother to really analyze yours vs any other affiliate any longer). HOWEVER, they need affiliates to push traffic, so they offer $1.30 or $1.50 or whatever ridiculous payout they need to offer to get and keep active affiliates.
When the traffic starts, u will notice EPC's of often .25 to .30 for the first hour or two.
BUT THEN if you watch, you will see that they very obviously set a "target" EPC, which will control the pixel firing so that they end up paying their target EPC (which I have found to generally between .02-.04 for good offers) within 24 or so hours.
I have tested this extensively and in a detailed fashion with a dozen or so networks and dozens of offers on each. This is the normal course of events for the BEST ones. WITHOUT EXCEPTION. So if you see a first-hour conversion of 20% or something, EXPECT to see 2% within a day or so. GUARANTEED.
Dont whine about it, dont bother complaining, just realize that the actual long-term yield on the email/zip submits nowadays is .02-.04 per click. PERIOD. And thats with good white-hat methods. BH will introduce the extra risk and hassle of termination and banning on top of this lowly pay, so I dont bother with that.
Just accept it, use that revenue figure as the basis of your expectations, and move on. You only need to drop offers where the EPC drops below .02 and fill with new ones coming online (where they will promptly drop to the .02-.04 EPC).
Truth hurts, but there it is. If .02-.04 EPC isnt worth your efforts, dont do it.
Odysseus
As a new person to this site i must say it was very interesting reading this thread. I spent over 30 years in retail management and i can say that i don't have a clue about what your talking about. Where can i get a book for dummies so i can understand what your talking about.
Starrider
Starrider
- Jan 8, 2010
- 13,628
- 8,251
I like your frankness!
One Beer to you man
One Beer to you man
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to share my recent experience. CPA network = maxbounty, using paid social media posts. I got 10,780 clicks and a $1,000 gift card email submit offer. only 24 paid actions. that has got to be scrubbing. The bummer is i was paying to advertise the offer, never make that mistake again!
odysseus11
Junior Member
- May 9, 2007
- 126
- 30
ouch.
but that experience proves the math that I mentioned.
Out of 10,780 clicks, you should have seen (and I'm sure u DID get in actuality) at least a 2% or so conversion, which would have been between 200 and 300 signups. But your advertiser onbviously shaved 90% (which is typical and absolutely routine, in fact its routine for the good ones at the good networks, the bad ones shave even WORSE than 90% if u can believe that). So u got credit for 24. So lets do the math - at $1.50 to u, u made $36 for delivering lets assume probably a *real* count of 250 signups or in that range...so u actually were paid just under .15 per signup. And that is exactly what the true value is of those signups to an advertiser. 15 cents (in that vicinity). But as u can see, they cant advertise an offer at .15 cuz no one would bother. So they let the uninformed waste their time and money sending traffic and even worse BUYING traffic using math calculations to compute breakevens that are FANTASY assuming the payout is $1.50 and the advertiser is honest - and u get left holding the bag while they laugh all the way to the bank. Disgusting.
Odysseus
but that experience proves the math that I mentioned.
Out of 10,780 clicks, you should have seen (and I'm sure u DID get in actuality) at least a 2% or so conversion, which would have been between 200 and 300 signups. But your advertiser onbviously shaved 90% (which is typical and absolutely routine, in fact its routine for the good ones at the good networks, the bad ones shave even WORSE than 90% if u can believe that). So u got credit for 24. So lets do the math - at $1.50 to u, u made $36 for delivering lets assume probably a *real* count of 250 signups or in that range...so u actually were paid just under .15 per signup. And that is exactly what the true value is of those signups to an advertiser. 15 cents (in that vicinity). But as u can see, they cant advertise an offer at .15 cuz no one would bother. So they let the uninformed waste their time and money sending traffic and even worse BUYING traffic using math calculations to compute breakevens that are FANTASY assuming the payout is $1.50 and the advertiser is honest - and u get left holding the bag while they laugh all the way to the bank. Disgusting.
Odysseus
odysseus11
Junior Member
- May 9, 2007
- 126
- 30
email/zip submits.
And I wouldnt call it bleak. I would just say have your eyes open, and the ACTUAL payout isnt the $1.50 each that they offer, its actually 15 cents (because they routinely shave 90%). So as with any offer, calculate your own costs in time and money and run the campaigns if it makes sense to you, but use 15 cents as your payout when u make your decision and assumptions/forecasts, not $1.50...
Odysseus
And I wouldnt call it bleak. I would just say have your eyes open, and the ACTUAL payout isnt the $1.50 each that they offer, its actually 15 cents (because they routinely shave 90%). So as with any offer, calculate your own costs in time and money and run the campaigns if it makes sense to you, but use 15 cents as your payout when u make your decision and assumptions/forecasts, not $1.50...
Odysseus
richjerkoff
Junior Member
- Apr 7, 2008
- 159
- 80
It's nice to have some verification of something I suspected happened after reading numerous CPA threads on here. What it all boils down to is:
Offer high payouts to entice affiliates or they wouldn't even bother.
Pay them what it's actually worth and hope a few of them can make a little profit to keep them happy for a while.
As for the ones who lose money and quit in disgust, they were useful idiots.
I don't even do email submits and I figured this out.
Offer high payouts to entice affiliates or they wouldn't even bother.
Pay them what it's actually worth and hope a few of them can make a little profit to keep them happy for a while.
As for the ones who lose money and quit in disgust, they were useful idiots.
I don't even do email submits and I figured this out.