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How e-mail submits work and why you get scrubbed

Discussion in 'Affiliate Programs' started by mkrongel, May 5, 2009.

  1. mkrongel

    mkrongel Registered Member

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    I wanted to introduce myself on the forum, I have lurked for some time but want to begin to contribute.

    I see a lot of people complaining about email submit offers and their conversions going down as you ramp up the offer so i figured i would shed some light on these offers and help you guys decide if you want to continue running them.

    email submits are the target of fraudsters on a daily basis. The bot programs that automatically fill out email submit offers and promise to make you money doing nothing. The big email submit guys are able to catch this, but they also protect themselves by adding a scrub to the traffic. So lets say network A has an email submit and you're running traffic to it, all of a sudden someone with bad traffic (a bot) gets on the same offer, the advertiser will see in real time that people from network A arent backing out anymore and will start scrubbing the pixel fires until the traffic becomes profitable for them again. So one main reason why you see the scrubbing kick in is due to the fraud that tries to abuse the offer. Another reason is that the email submit guys are desperate to report profits as some are public companies and they just scrub to fatten their bottom line

    The biggest email submit advertisers are Value Click, Active Response Group and The useful, 90% of email submit offers for free ipods, electronics, food, department stores, etc.. come from one of these 3 advertisers. Each one of them has been hit with fines from various attorney generals about their business practices. These advertisers are under pressure to be profitable at all costs which adds to their need to scrub even more.

    I caught one advertiser trying to scrub over 80% of the leads we actually generated in our network. We showed about 3K leads, they said they showed the same, then told us there was fraud and they wanted to scrub more but this time they sent their internal unscrubbed report which showed almost 17K leads (They messed up)

    So in short, even if you have good traffic these offers are going to scrub the balls off your traffic at some point. The days of email submit offers working well are past us. If you are able to stay profitable on email submits i would suggest working with a network that has good traffic on these offers already, they are less likely to see massive scrubbing.

    Check the email spam you get for these offers and trace the network back, if you see the same network over and over, chances are that network is being scrubbed the least and is probably your best bet for running email submits without being scrubbed to death.

    Hope this helps someone.
     
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  2. blazed

    blazed Junior Member

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    this might be the best introductory post i've seen ever. Welcome!
     
  3. mkrongel

    mkrongel Registered Member

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    thanks. I am more than happy to answer any questions you might have.

    I have been in online marketing for 11 years. I have been an advertiser, affiliate and most recently affiliate network. I am a straight forward and honest person. You may not like what i have to say at times but i dont sugar coat or BS you.
     
  4. Slasher

    Slasher Junior Member

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    I'm sorry but do you work for C0PEAC?
     
  5. gurujh

    gurujh Registered Member

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    NKRongel, its is nice to have you with us. Very nice introductory post. Very informative. Wish more of the people that joined the forum we be as insightful as you.
     
  6. GTGirl

    GTGirl Newbie

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    He is the owner of Copeac.
     
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  7. blackhat50

    blackhat50 Regular Member

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    i disagree firmly, i've been doing e-mail submits since 2004, its the easiest thing to promote for me and i make a killing off email submits.

    e-mail is huge. period.
     
  8. mkrongel

    mkrongel Registered Member

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    Yes i do.
     
  9. mkrongel

    mkrongel Registered Member

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    You run with a network that has good traffic and sees less scrubbing.

    I used to have email submits converting at 35%, some of you probably ran them on MS in the past (Macsy) MS traffic was the highest quality traffic email submit advertisers ever saw
     
  10. ★WiM★

    ★WiM★ Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    mkrongel maybe if network can make form validation( no bad data like "dfgfdgdg") all will be happy.
     
  11. mkrongel

    mkrongel Registered Member

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    you probably run with a network that has good email submit traffic and doesn't see the scrubbing happen as much. I could guess who it is, they are either in Cali or Colorado

    My rep at one of these email submit companies told me he can just lower the scrub when i used to complain about conversions.
     
  12. mkrongel

    mkrongel Registered Member

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    If you have the right network it can be lucrative. But if the network has crap traffic you'll get scrubbed because of it.

    Also you probably email the email submit offers? thats usually a higher quality leads VS the poll method or traffic driven through search.
     
  13. mistamoonman

    mistamoonman Newbie

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    Awesome post, and it is nice to see you here sir.
     
  14. blackhat50

    blackhat50 Regular Member

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    pre-pop fields work like a charm,

    don't get me wrong not all cpa networks are good, some are complete garbage and they wonder why i've been with them and not made a single cent, cough like copeac cough but then again i'm with 30-40 cpa networks, i can only give my attention to the ones that work.
     
  15. mkrongel

    mkrongel Registered Member

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    Copeac email submits Cough*suck*Cough. :) Some networks are better in certain verticals than others.
     
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  16. ddf1980

    ddf1980 Junior Member

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    lol at least the man's honest
     
  17. mkrongel

    mkrongel Registered Member

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    I wouldnt waste your time, also i think we have like 2 email submits that we use for redirected offers
     
  18. shade

    shade Junior Member

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    This would explain a lot of what I've been seeing recently.

    What about the submits that have:

    First Name:
    Last Name:
    Address:
    Phone:
    Gender:
    Country:
    State:
    City:
    Zip Code:

    Is the scrubbing the same?
     
  19. mkrongel

    mkrongel Registered Member

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    Kind of. See the advertiser pays on an email or zip/over time it learns how many people go on and fill out offers that they make money on, if the profits arent high enough the front end just gets scrubbed more, thats why one day you are at 25% then the next youre at 3%

    If you blend your crap traffic with a network with good traffic the scrub might not happen.
     
  20. bigkhong

    bigkhong Junior Member

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    Well, copeac is a huge network so they can ban advertisers who practice shady business. If they scrub like 80%, I think it's time to investigate.

    Would you want to be in the affiliates' shoes and have 80% of your leads shaved? I don't think so!