AMA about PBNs (setup, footprints, things to avoid, et al.)

[judealex]

Thanks @idoseo for your questions. Replies are in orange.



We spend roughly 5-10 minutes analyzing a PBN domain. After a couply of checks, you get the hang of it.

We don't really focus on metrics too much, tbh. But if you want some rough baselines to filter out the super crappy domains, we recommend:

• RD15+
• DR5+
• Optional: DA5-10+

We are usually more interested in the actual link and anchor profile and not in the metrics per se. Metrics increase exponentially once your PBN site is launched and you start to build a few t2 links.

Instead our domain analysis typically involves just these simple four steps:

1. Check if the domain is sitll indexed

Head to google, enter "site:domain.com" and see if the domain is still indexed. Typically this will only be the case for auctioned domains. Most expiring domains will be dropped from the index, but will re-index quite fast once the site is up and running. We just do this out of a habit. If the site is still indexed: cool. If not, no biggie.

2. Check Wayback

Head to https://archive.org/ enter the domain and check at least 1-2 captures for each year. You want to make sure that the domains has some age and has not been used for any spammy techniques before (can't believe how many spammy chinese crap sites we had to weed through) - we also want to make sure it was never really used as a PBN before (but that becomes usually quite obvious when checking the link and anchor profile).

3. Check for trademarks

We want to make sure that there are no active trademarks for the domains.

We usually use https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-application-process/search-trademark-database for sites that targeted the US market or https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmtext for EU sites.

4. Check the link profile, link target and anchors

We are mostly interested in contextual links from high DR sites.

We usually use Ahrefs to analyze our PBN domains. For each PBN domain we head over to their site explorer, enter the domain and click on “backlinks” to get a rough glance at all the links. Once you've got a feeling for quality link profile, this will give you a nice idea already.

We then choose a few filters, namely “link type: content” and “one unique link per domain“ to get an idea of JUST the contextual backlinks pointing at the domain. It also shows us if these links have any links pointed at them (always good).

We then check the link targets.

We use ahrefs "best by links" feature to see at where the links are pointed at (in case we need to re-built or 301 a lot of inner pages). Preferrably we want most links pointed at one version of the homepage and max 2-5 inner pages. But that's just the best case scenario.

If the link profile and the link targets are strong we move on to the anchor text.

We use ahrefs "anchors" feature to get an idea of the anchor profile. We typically want a domain that is not spammed to death with exact match anchors. Anything under 15% exact match anchors is fine by us.

Summarized - we look for

• Indexation
• Wayback Records
• Active Trademarks
• Link profile, link targets and anchor profile

Preferrably look for niche specific auctioned domains. These can get quite pricey, but many of domain vendors do a lot of heavy vetting for these type of domains, including link profiling, history checks etc. So if you only have a few hundred to invest, I'd suggest these are you go-to.

If you go for lower-mid range expired domains, we recommend to power these up with a few tier 2 links (more on that below).


The best and most powerful approach would be to keep the OBL = 1. One PBN domain has one link to one money site. This will pass most of the link juice and reduce any link footprints to virtually zero.

However, we've seen not adverse effects when you link out to different money sites (OBL >1) as long as the niche is the same and the money sites don't share any footprints (hosting, DNS, SMTP servers etc.)



Typically we spend around 1 hour per PBN domain setup, sometimes more.

Maintenance and scaling is easy, once the site's are running. Price wise a 10x PBN network would cost you roughly:

• 10x mid quality expired domains (RD20+, decent 3rd party metrics (if you want those), top TLDs (com/net/org) incl. domain registration = $450 minimum. But for really good domains you pay easily pay $100+ / domain. So this is a bare minimum. You basically leverage domain volume over domain quality. Would possibly argue that you need more around $1000-3000 for 10 good domains + registration fee.
• 10x good cloud droplets incl. backups (via Vultr, Digitalocean, Linode, AWS, etc.) = $60 / month absolute minimum. Don't cheap out on PBN hosting. Having a decent hosting infrastructure is imo the most important aspect of any good PBN.
• 10x PBN set-ups with no footprints, theme customization, necessary plugins, htaccess customization, redirections, blocked IP lists etc. = $300-400 minimum, usually more around 500$ - unless you want to set them up all by yourself.
• 10x niche relevant articles (at least 1500-2000 words split over at least 1-3 articles) = $250 minimum
• A few premium themes + Elementor PRO ~ $500

So per domain you pay at least $100-150.


We usually do a hybrid mix of inner page and homepage links. For our private PBNs we keep the OBL = 1. For our service PBNs we keep it at <20.


Initial expenses were in excess of 30k. But we didn't build all our PBNs at the same time. We added more as we grew.

The costs are not that excessive, tbh. Maintenance is done by our inhouse team, but you can easily outsource that to a VA for $200-500 / month (depending on the site of oyur network).

Hosting costs are 3k-4k / month and domain renewals (with coupons) around $3800 / year.


See our outline above. If you build them all at once, i'd say around 50-60k minimum for 500 domains (if you can get good bulk discounts for the domains, domain registrations and the setup).


We haven't had many de-indexations (knock on wood). But if we see a PBN domain vanish completely from the index, we cut our losses and move on. That domain is burnt.


Yes, we do. We typically use our high performance links in various quantities if the link profile is not super strong, but still decent enough to build a PBN site on the domain.

We always point a few to the homepage and 3-4x as much to the PBN posts that contain our links (that we re-built or added as new posts).

We've seen great results from these without any adverse effects. We rarely use link inserts or guest posts, as most of the domains should already have a good amount of nice powerful contextual links.


Definitely. If you can avoid all the footprints, it's a mid-long term asset that you can leverage in many ways.

Good explanation. And I was wondering you revealing all your secrets of your PBN. Those who are really thinking to build PBN must read these explanations.

 

[janist]

Thank you for this brilliant thread, I was wondering why you dont recommend the use of a drop catching service?

Also, would you use a domain that has not been used as part of a pbn but has had a previous redirect? If not, why not?

Thanks

I'm not against dropcatch providers, quite the opposite, we love them.
But as soon as you got the domain you wanted, I'd move it to a more reputable registrar like Dynadot, Name, Namesilo, Gdaddy etc.

For redirects: It depends. Usually we'd skip those domains, unless the links are absolute gems.

Good explanation. And I was wondering you revealing all your secrets of your PBN. Those who are really thinking to build PBN must read these explanations.

Thanks, appreciate the kind words.

 

[LgnG]

When registering the domain with the registrar and setting up the hosting do we need to use different personal names, addresses, phone numbers, and payment methods?

 

[janist]

When registering the domain with the registrar and setting up the hosting do we need to use different personal names, addresses, phone numbers, and payment methods?

No, not necessary. You can use your real (business) information and simply opt for private WHOIS for your domains (which is free anyway).

 

[philoxy]

I feel like I have struck gold. I'm in the process of creating my first PBN and this has been an absolute god-send.

1) From what I understand, your PBN site, OBL = 1. PBN homesite (pbn.com) -> Money Site (moneysite.com). Let's say you sell dog multiple products (collars, bowls, toys, etc.) and want to rank for keyword "dog collar" (I know, highly competitive but purely an example). Why would you not link to money site product page?

This may be a basic question, but how does pbn.com -> moneysite.com help you rank for "dog collar" on moneysite.com/dogcollar? Is the goal to use PBN to get your money site authority up, then you do the keyword work via on-page SEO (use KW research to rank for various products, but PBN provides SEO backbone to moneysite domain)?

2) I know you said ideal to not link to same money site, but assuming you sell multiple products, which is the optimal set-up, from link equity perspective:
- pbn.com -> moneysite.com or
- pbn.com -> moneysite.com/dogcollar or
- pbn.com/abc -> moneysite.com/dogcollar & pbn.com/xyz -> moneysite.com/dogtoys

3) Using OBL = 1, If you make PBN as a static business homepage, would it be beneficial to write new content bi-monthly as well? Or is that only applicable to service-based PBNs that use articles for selling spots?

Thank you for all the golden nuggets you are sharing

 

[janist]

I feel like I have struck gold. I'm in the process of creating my first PBN and this has been an absolute god-send.

1) From what I understand, your PBN site, OBL = 1. PBN homesite (pbn.com) -> Money Site (moneysite.com). Let's say you sell dog multiple products (collars, bowls, toys, etc.) and want to rank for keyword "dog collar" (I know, highly competitive but purely an example). Why would you not link to money site product page?

This may be a basic question, but how does pbn.com -> moneysite.com help you rank for "dog collar" on moneysite.com/dogcollar? Is the goal to use PBN to get your money site authority up, then you do the keyword work via on-page SEO (use KW research to rank for various products, but PBN provides SEO backbone to moneysite domain)?


2) I know you said ideal to not link to same money site, but assuming you sell multiple products, which is the optimal set-up, from link equity perspective:
- pbn.com -> moneysite.com or
- pbn.com -> moneysite.com/dogcollar or
- pbn.com/abc -> moneysite.com/dogcollar & pbn.com/xyz -> moneysite.com/dogtoys

3) Using OBL = 1, If you make PBN as a static business homepage, would it be beneficial to write new content bi-monthly as well? Or is that only applicable to service-based PBNs that use articles for selling spots?

Thank you for all the golden nuggets you are sharing

1+2) You don't have to link to the homepage of your money site. You can link to any page you want to rank. That can also be moneysite.com/dogcollar or moneysite.com/dog-toys or whatever. OBL = 1 only means that you should (preferrably) keep the links to your money site limited. Every additional link has diminishing returns. Having said that, we have PBNs where we link out twice to a money site, but its rather rare.

How you link from the PBN homepage to your moneysite is up to you. You can display two full feature blog posts on your PBN homepage (for example pbn.com/dog-toys that links to moneysite.com/dog-toys/ and pbn.com/dogcollar that links to moneysite.com/dog-collars/). Or you place them into some static content. Anything works as long as your link is surrounded by some thematically relevant content.

3) If you make the PBN like a business page, you can definitely get away with just static content (a decent 1500-2000 word copy on the PBN homepage, then maybe 2-3 additional service pages (filler content) and of course a dcent about us + contact us page). Obviously a bit of blog content won't hurt, but it's not necessary. There are thousands of one-page business sites out there that don't have an active blog and rarely get new content added. Easiest way to create these would be Astra Pro + Elementor Pro (templates). Super fast to set up, even with customizations.

 

[FlyingGains]

Lets say I have build a pbn of 10 websites within 2 weeks. How would you drip feed the links to my money site? My money site has already got a lot of other links. Would it be fine if I link to the money site from all of my pbn sites on 1 day?

 

[janist]

Lets say I have build a pbn of 10 websites within 2 weeks. How would you drip feed the links to my money site? My money site has already got a lot of other links. Would it be fine if I link to the money site from all of my pbn sites on 1 day?

No need for dripfeeding with 10 links you can publish all of them in a day or two.
What we like to do (not that it matters THAT much) is to backdate some posts a week or two, so not all of them are published the same day.

 

[silicuda]

When you acquire domains that have good link profile. Do you re-create the posts on the blog that the incoming links point to or do you redirect them via HTACCESS?

 

[janist]

When you acquire domains that have good link profile. Do you re-create the posts on the blog that the incoming links point to or do you redirect them via HTACCESS?

Already answered that

We re-create the URL structure and add new / fresh content to it (something that makes sense based on the URL slug).
We include internal links to other posts on the PBN that include a link to our money site and one internal link to the homepage of the PBN.

 

[Tobii1953]

What kinda links do you send to your pbn? Do you even build links to your pbn sites before linking to the money sites?

 

[janist]

What kinda links do you send to your pbn? Do you even build links to your pbn sites before linking to the money sites?

We usually use our high performance links (buffered through web 2.0s or direct) and/or low-end link inserts or guest posts (DR15+, 500+ traffic). These can help a ton. You can also use cheaper PBNs for your tier 2 layer, but make sure to do your due dilligence.

We don't start building them before linking out. Usually after we have placed our links. Especially when we add a new post to a PBN that includes our links. Then we always want to link directly to that page on top of the homepage.

 

[silicuda]

Already answered that

We re-create the URL structure and add new / fresh content to it (something that makes sense based on the URL slug).
We include internal links to other posts on the PBN that include a link to our money site and one internal link to the homepage of the PBN.

I spent the past 2 hours reading your entire thread. All I can say is WOW. (And sorry I asked the Q that now I know, you answered multiple times)

Thank you for sharing so much value, learned a lot. Which is amazing considering, all the guys I know that do PBNs and mingle with us paid ads buyers won't share a damn thing (they follow the mindset of JamesConway that replied to yourhttps://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/ama-about-pbns-setup-footprints-things-to-avoid-et-al.1268356/post-13732952 and asked "WHY YOU GIVING OUT THE SECRETS MAN!!")

Before this, I knew jack s#*@ about PBN's since Facebook & Google Ads is all I know/do....

I have some new questions I didn't see anyone ask yet. Hope you can answer them for us

#1) You mentioned multiple times to build links to your pbn from tier2. And you mention to order from marketplace. That part of bhw is full of tons of crap. So how do u find a good supplier?

#2) What is the best VALUE (cost vs benefit) link service you can buy from a supplier that will boost your PBN?

#2A) Would you buy these link services for your money site?

#3) How would you leverage paid ads in this entire "PBN universe"

#4) What the heck is RD & DA & OB ? (Root Domain links == RD?) DA=== Domain Age? Sorry.. #newb

#5) Lets say you build 20 new sites to create a 20 strong PBN. How do you monitor the health of each PBN to know you want them "in" your PBN and not deleted/nuked/removed?

 

[janist]

I spent the past 2 hours reading your entire thread. All I can say is WOW. (And sorry I asked the Q that now I know, you answered multiple times)

Thank you for sharing so much value, learned a lot. Which is amazing considering, all the guys I know that do PBNs and mingle with us paid ads buyers won't share a damn thing (they follow the mindset of JamesConway that replied to your thread here and asked "WHY YOU GIVING OUT THE SECRETS MAN!!")

Before this, I knew jack s#*@ about PBN's since Facebook & Google Ads is all I know/do....

I have some new questions I didn't see anyone ask yet. Hope you can answer them for us

#1) You mentioned multiple times to build links to your pbn from tier2. And you mention to order from marketplace. That part of bhw is full of tons of crap. So how do u find a good supplier?

#2) What is the best VALUE (cost vs benefit) link service you can buy from a supplier that will boost your PBN?

#2A) Would you buy these link services for your money site?

#3) How would you leverage paid ads in this entire "PBN universe"

#4) What the heck is RD & DA & OB ? (Root Domain links == RD?) DA=== Domain Age? Sorry.. #newb

#5) Lets say you build 20 new sites to create a 20 strong PBN. How do you monitor the health of each PBN to know you want them "in" your PBN and not deleted/nuked/removed?

Thanks for the kind words, appreciate it.

#1 and #2) Sorry, can't answer that for you. It would either be self-promotional or simply too objective. But we love to use low-tier link inserts, guest posts, custom filtered sape and web 2.0s as our tier 2 links.

#2A) Maybe for some affiliate sites that we can risk to lose. But with brandabl money sites we typically stick to PBNs, high quality link inserts, guest posts, editorials, inforgraphics + digital PR, HARO and citations. But as said above, we will definitely use them as tier 2 (in copious amounts)

#3) Not sure what you mean by that?

#4) RD = Referring Domains, DA = Domain Authority (MOZ Metrics), OBL = Outbound backlinks (aka links going out from your site)

#5) This all happens before we buy the domains and build the PBNs, by doing proper analysis of the domains link profile, its history, anchor profile etc. pp. If the domain is crap, it's not worth building a PBN on it.

 

[soa0611]

We usually use our high performance links (buffered through web 2.0s or direct) and/or low-end link inserts or guest posts (DR15+, 500+ traffic). These can help a ton. You can also use cheaper PBNs for your tier 2 layer, but make sure to do your due dilligence.

We don't start building them before linking out. Usually after we have placed our links. Especially when we add a new post to a PBN that includes our links. Then we always want to link directly to that page on top of the homepage.

i was planning to use your PBN service soon (but the recent update changed my plans a bit) but probably via buffers.
do you still provide buffers creating service?
and in your opinion , does it still work good (buffering)?

 

[janist]

i was planning to use your PBN service soon (but the recent update changed my plans a bit) but probably via buffers.
do you still provide buffers creating service?
and in your opinion , does it still work good (buffering)?

PM'd you, as I don't want this to turn into a sales or service related thread

 

[silicuda]

Hi Again

With so many copywriting/content creation tools out there like that produce relatively good unique articles, how do you evaluate the writers you hire won't scam you with auto generated stuff?

In other words, how do you check to know for a fact the things you pay for, aren't done by TheBestSpinner,Article Forge, or some other AI based tools?

 

[Mksands]

Thanks for the great ama. In your experience does the backend control panel e.g cpanel, directadmin, ispconfig etc, matter footprint wise? Or what the Web server is? Nginx, apache, litespeed

 

[janist]

Hi Again

With so many copywriting/content creation tools out there like that produce relatively good unique articles, how do you evaluate the writers you hire won't scam you with auto generated stuff?

In other words, how do you check to know for a fact the things you pay for, aren't done by TheBestSpinner,Article Forge, or some other AI based tools?

You can use things like https://www.quetext.com/. But we usually just trust our writers after years of working with them.

Thanks for the great ama. In your experience does the backend control panel e.g cpanel, directadmin, ispconfig etc, matter footprint wise? Or what the Web server is? Nginx, apache, litespeed

No, not really a footprint in itself.

 

[Tobii1953]

In your experience how good do english pbn domains work for german serps?. And do you think translated content is fine?