AMA about PBNs (setup, footprints, things to avoid, et al.)

HeavyMorning · Dec 25, 2020

How you are managing the bigger PBN network (like 300-500 PBNs)

- Management of Article Posting (Weekly, Monthly, or Daily? )
- Mony Site Link Insertion Frequency

And One more question how you guys are managing the login part? like login to PBNs through broadband IP or using some RDP services permanently.

janist · Dec 25, 2020

philoxy said:
When you are doing blog comments for link diversity on your money site, do you link back to your MS home page or page you want to rank for?

In other words, is link diversity across the domain or page specific?

We rarely do blog commenting. Maybe a few quora or relevant forum posts. But in general we point links to the sites we want to rank.

chaotic said:
Thanks for answering my question! Another one for you, regarding PBN hosting:

Vultr has a cloud instance for only $2.50/mo, but it doesn't come with an IPv4, and has an IPv6 by default. Do you think that would work just as well?

Yea, those work just fine. Unfortunately, the $2.5 droplets are gone quite fast.

philoxy said:
One more question (thank you for the help!)

When looking at PBNs, do the root domain % matter?

For example, if you have two PBN domains, one with a stronger backlink profile but root domain % of 50% or a slightly weaker backlink profile but root domain % is 80, which is better?

My guess is the 80% because you do not have to recreate all the URLs (assuming that if the URLs are gone, then the link juice stops)

*also assuming there is not just one strong URL you can recreate, but rather a bunch of one-offs

We'd always recommend to rebuild (or in rare cases 301) the inner apge URLs that have links pointed at them and utilize internal links to pass the link equity around the PBN. In your scenario both domains could work well. The root domain % is not as important as the link profile itself.

m@tt said:
How are you hiding footrpints when registering domains? Are you registering in your name then transferring to a fake profile account to hide footprints or do you register in the fake name and use virtual/prepaid debit card for payment?

No, we've never done that and don't see it as a footprint. We operate a legit business and use proper data for all our registrars, hosts and domain services. Absolutely no need to use fake data.

asbestosstar said:
Why do you pay for IP Block Lists? Wouldnt it make more sense just to block the IPs which are attacking you rather than a list of IPs which are often for just VPNs or TOR?

When we talk about blocking IPs, it more for crawler not attacks (we have wordfence premium for that).

DunderMannen said:
What would be the cheapest way to host say 10 or 20 domains?

I know you need different hosting, name registrar etc. so it would be quite costly...

I'm thinking whether it would be worth it or not.

10x $2.50 to $5.00 droplets at vultr or digital ocean, two domain registrars (name.com + dynadot) and runcloud premium.

Around 50-60$ / month for 10 domains.

errorboy007 said:
How you are managing the bigger PBN network (like 300-500 PBNs)

- Management of Article Posting (Weekly, Monthly, or Daily? )
- Mony Site Link Insertion Frequency

And One more question how you guys are managing the login part? like login to PBNs through broadband IP or using some RDP services permanently.

Proper spreadsheets, detailed guidelines/project management and awesome employees

HeavyMorning · Dec 26, 2020

janist said:
We rarely do blog commenting. Maybe a few quora or relevant forum posts. But in general we point links to the sites we want to rank.

Yea, those work just fine. Unfortunately, the $2.5 droplets are gone quite fast.

We'd always recommend to rebuild (or in rare cases 301) the inner apge URLs that have links pointed at them and utilize internal links to pass the link equity around the PBN. In your scenario both domains could work well. The root domain % is not as important as the link profile itself.

No, we've never done that and don't see it as a footprint. We operate a legit business and use proper data for all our registrars, hosts and domain services. Absolutely no need to use fake data.

When we talk about blocking IPs, it more for crawler not attacks (we have wordfence premium for that).

10x $2.50 to $5.00 droplets at vultr or digital ocean, two domain registrars (name.com + dynadot) and runcloud premium.

Around 50-60$ / month for 10 domains.

Proper spreadsheets, detailed guidelines/project management and awesome employees

Login to wp through rdp or real IP?

Pillis000 · Dec 26, 2020

I am looking at setting up some PBNs. I have chatted with PBN hosting who advertise on BHW. They seem really good, they advised that I could use my current gmail and google chrome browser it won’t leave footprints. What is the best method to avoid leaving footprints?

Deleted member 1466613 · Dec 26, 2020

Do you use any tools to check auction domain stats in a simple overview? It's a pain having to check each potential domain manually.

janist · Dec 26, 2020

errorboy007 said:
Login to wp through rdp or real IP?

Real IP.

Pillis000 said:
I am looking at setting up some PBNs. I have chatted with PBN hosting who advertise on BHW. They seem really good, they advised that I could use my current gmail and google chrome browser it won’t leave footprints. What is the best method to avoid leaving footprints?

Those are not really footprint. While I wouldn't use google sheets to manage my PBN details, using gmail or chrome in itself is not a footprint.

belendel said:
Do you use any tools to check auction domain stats in a simple overview? It's a pain having to check each potential domain manually.

Well, aside from ahrefs, wayback etc. pp - we do it all manually. Nothing beats a manual analysis when it comes to expensive domains. If that's too much work for oyu, i'd recommend testing a few domain providers and move ahead with those that deliver time after time after time...

philoxy · Dec 28, 2020

I know you covered hosting, but one nuanced point:

Regarding hosting (Digital Ocean, Vultr, etc.) - is it fine to use one email for multiple PBN hostings? I know you said its easy and safe but just want to confirm:

For example:

Digital Ocean: [email protected]
PBN A
PBN B
PBN C
etc.

philoxy · Dec 29, 2020

philoxy said:
I know you covered hosting, but one nuanced point:

Regarding hosting (Digital Ocean, Vultr, etc.) - is it fine to use one email for multiple PBN hostings? I know you said its easy and safe but just want to confirm:

For example:

Digital Ocean: [email protected]
PBN A
PBN B
PBN C
etc.

same question for name registering on Name / Dynadot / etc

janist · Dec 29, 2020

philoxy said:
I know you covered hosting, but one nuanced point:

Regarding hosting (Digital Ocean, Vultr, etc.) - is it fine to use one email for multiple PBN hostings? I know you said its easy and safe but just want to confirm:

For example:

Digital Ocean: [email protected]
PBN A
PBN B
PBN C
etc.

philoxy said:
same question for name registering on Name / Dynadot / etc

To answer both of you: It's not necessary. In times of GDPR user data is more secure than ever (unless you're a ledger user, hehe...).

There's no need to use more than one email for hosting, registrars, runcloud, et al.

philoxy · Dec 31, 2020

My PBN has a subdomain that has quite a few back links pointing to. Is it possible to recreate a subdomain for it on digital ocean? I’ve looked around but haven’t seen anything laying out how to do this

Highschooled · Dec 31, 2020

How much do you think I would need to invest in a PBN if I was targeting either a local niche or a generally lower comp niche? (Difficulty around 20~ on keyword metric sites)

Roland77 · Dec 31, 2020

Do you have a set amount of words you like to have for a PBN site? Like min 10,000 words or anything?

janist · Dec 31, 2020

philoxy said:
My PBN has a subdomain that has quite a few back links pointing to. Is it possible to recreate a subdomain for it on digital ocean? I’ve looked around but haven’t seen anything laying out how to do this

Yea, that's totally do-able via A records: https://www.digitalocean.com/docs/networking/dns/how-to/add-subdomain/

We actually have used it before for landing pages and marketing campaigns on money sites, super easy to set up (imo).

Highschooled said:
How much do you think I would need to invest in a PBN if I was targeting either a local niche or a generally lower comp niche? (Difficulty around 20~ on keyword metric sites)

$2500 would get you started with 10 decent domains that could work well for low competitive local keywords.

Roland77 said:
Do you have a set amount of words you like to have for a PBN site? Like min 10,000 words or anything?

10k+ words is a good goal for auction PBNs build on really expensive domains. But we also have PBNs with just shy of 2000 words. It really depends on the niche and the PBN domain.

JayDee1984 · Dec 31, 2020

janist said:
Hey,

my partner in crime (@roman375) and I saw a lot of new PBN related threads pop up over the past few weeks. Unfortunately, we also saw a lot of misinformation and misguided advice.

So we've decided to start this little AMA, where you can ask us anything regarding PBNs.

Quick background:

We've been running a relatively decent sized niche network here on BHW for a few years now. We also have a bunch of completely private blog networks for our own sites. We've gathered some valuable experience in creating and managing PBNs for large scale link building over the past few years. Of course, the beginnings were bumpy, but that's how we learned to blend in with the masses and stay in the shadows of big G.

So, let the questions flood in.

Thank you for this ama, my question is, how do you hide your pbn sites from the competition or services like ahrefs/moz/etc.

In case you use htaccess for it, can you share you htaccess file settings?

Roland77 · Dec 31, 2020

janist said:
10k+ words is a good goal for auction PBNs build on really expensive domains. But we also have PBNs with just shy of 2000 words. It really depends on the niche and the PBN domain.

Thanks! And just to compare, how many words do you like your moneysites to have on average?

philoxy · Jan 2, 2021

If a domain has some RD pointing to http and some to https, if you choose http (more back links) do you lose the link juice from domains pointing to https?

if so, is there a solution / workaround?

fiorecomo · Jan 3, 2021

Hi! First of all thank you very much for the great, informative thread.

I am trying to resurrect an old website that has some real quality content/work, but has been neglected for a while.

I have built some 2.0 links with unique content to it way back (8+ years ago) and many are still live! These are not exactly PBN links, but I think the core concept still applies. I noticed they are indexed, but only the root (subdomain), while the individual posts are not indexed in Google.

Example: blabla.wordpress.com is indexed, but not blabla.wordpress.com/article

Do you think these links are still good or would I be better off removing them?

fiorecomo · Jan 3, 2021

Another question if I may, how important do you think the content length is for articles that contain links? Do you think there is a substantial difference between a let's say a 300 words article with a link and a 1000 word article with a link?

janist · Jan 3, 2021

JayDee1984 said:
Thank you for this ama, my question is, how do you hide your pbn sites from the competition or services like ahrefs/moz/etc.

In case you use htaccess for it, can you share you htaccess file settings?

We don't block them.

Roland77 said:
Thanks! And just to compare, how many words do you like your moneysites to have on average?

Evergrowing...

All our affiliate sites are 100k+ in word count.

philoxy said:
If a domain has some RD pointing to http and some to https, if you choose http (more back links) do you lose the link juice from domains pointing to https?

if so, is there a solution / workaround?

Just use https. Redirect http to https. Google is smart enough to differentiate and pass link equity accordingly.

fiorecomo said:
Hi! First of all thank you very much for the great, informative thread.

I am trying to resurrect an old website that has some real quality content/work, but has been neglected for a while.

I have built some 2.0 links with unique content to it way back (8+ years ago) and many are still live! These are not exactly PBN links, but I think the core concept still applies. I noticed they are indexed, but only the root (subdomain), while the individual posts are not indexed in Google.

Example: blabla.wordpress.com is indexed, but not blabla.wordpress.com/article

Do you think these links are still good or would I be better off removing them?

Yea, those should be fine. Most of these web 2.0 sites display the link on the root subdomain.

fiorecomo said:
Another question if I may, how important do you think the content length is for articles that contain links? Do you think there is a substantial difference between a let's say a 300 words article with a link and a 1000 word article with a link?

Tbh, we haven't seen much difference between 500 vs 1000 word posts when it comes to the power of the link. You'd think that more content = better. But as long as you hit 450+ words per post, it should be totally fine.

Bonzibuddy142 · Jan 3, 2021

Hi,

You mentioned a free A-Z doc in one of your posts in this thread. Any chance I could get my hands on that?

AMA about PBNs (setup, footprints, things to avoid, et al.)

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