Order ID Bumping - Prohibit it?

[Deleted member 1274522]

My suggestion is as simple as the thread title suggests:
Forbid "Order ID Bumping", meaning that buyers shall not be allowed to be required (by the seller) to post their Order ID in the original sales thread in order to receive their respective purchased product.

That rule could either be enforced by proscribing the buyer to post their order ID or disallowing sellers to ask their buyers to post said ID.


Why should those bumping messages be banned?
1. First of all, it just spams the sales thread and qualitive reviews are harder to find amongst those spammy nonsense messages.
2. Sellers who value a clean thread may have a disadvantage because theirs won't be as bumped as others, thus not having this many views, clients (and revenue).
3. Some black sheeps may induce their buyers to create one-time accounts to post fake reviews / their order ID to receive their product. (not accusing mentioned seller: https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/sherlock-hacks-google-my-ass.1216248/)

So summing up all the previous points, I am of the opinion that prohibiting those order confirmation posts would generally improve the general quality of BHW itself and especially the Marketplace environment.

 

[BbHhWwVM]

70-90% of any forum don't even read threads, they read OP and go straight for the reply

You can't ban or manually remove massive comments under BST


I saw multiple BST where seller don't even give any codes or discounts or call to action, and random people coming with replies: Order placed ID: XXXXXX (could be fake/real)

Bumping has too many ways to be abused, but BHW 2.0 update might bring something new there, staff is silent but they know what could be done to reduce it.

Goal is to catch someone who is abusing, so he should be allowed to step in.


Just saying.

 

[Deleted member 1274522]

70-90% of any forum don't even read threads, they read OP and go straight for the reply

Still, it definitely lowers the marketplace quality due to the spammy nature of those replies.

You can't ban or manually remove massive comments under BST


I saw multiple BST where seller don't even give any codes or discounts or call to action, and random people coming with replies: Order placed ID: XXXXXX (could be fake/real)

Manually deleting wouldn't be needed (or at least not on this scale) if the punishment is on the sellers side as referring to my statement above:

That rule could either be enforced by proscribing the buyer to post their order ID or disallowing sellers to ask their buyers to post said ID.

What's meant is that the seller shall not ask his buyer to post any kind of order confirmation or (to maybe expand) asking for discount codes, otherwise he may be punished.
Both, the order confirmation as well as discount codes, could be done via Direct Messages only, there is absolutely no need for twenty pages of bare "may I get a discount code?" or "Order ID: xxxx-xxxx-xxxx". It only boosts said sellers who abuse this system (in a way) to the top of BHW Marketplace and leaves those who don't ask to get their threads spammed and/or have recurring services/lifetime products where you won't need confirm as often as you might do on a e.g. content writing thread behind.

Just saying.

Thanks for your feedback and opinion on this matter!

 

[BbHhWwVM]

That would be too hard to swallow.

BHW would probably be the 1st forum to have this.
Sellers could defend: this guy wants to ruin my business, his order is fake
Even if seller quote him and say something, he can defend later that his order was fake, but he didn't checked right away

Another bump issue: any word could be a fake bump, and any question
What about old good: review copy, discount pls? How many times seller highlight NO REVIEW COPY and they ask for it below

It is very hard to solve bumping issue because sellers will suffer hard time too.

They paid to sell, and they already have strict enough rules, they use the method bump with discount, so others keep bumping for codes.

What need to be done here is speed up with shitlists. You can't really do nothing else, or balance is broken, IMO.



I could relate with your OP, BST bumping is annoying, but you have to keep some balance in air. This is a very sensitive thing. That's it from me.

 

[Deleted member 1274522]

That would be too hard to swallow.

BHW would probably be the 1st forum to have this.
Sellers could defend: this guy wants to ruin my business, his order is fake
Even if seller quote him and say something, he can defend later that his order was fake, but he didn't checked right away

Another bump issue: any word could be a fake bump, and any question
What about old good: review copy, discount pls? How many times seller highlight NO REVIEW COPY and they ask for it below

It is very hard to solve bumping issue because sellers will suffer hard time too.

They paid to sell, and they already have strict enough rules, they use the method bump with discount, so others keep bumping for codes.

What need to be done here is speed up with shitlists. You can't really do nothing else, or balance is broken, IMO.



I could relate with your OP, BST bumping is annoying, but you have to keep some balance in air. This is a very sensitive thing. That's it from me.

Mhm, that's a valid point, though I think there needs to be done something about it.

This bumping "culture" (sort of way to put it) is extremely toxic in the context of a "fair" marketplace. In my opinion, it'll be only a matter of time till a genius SMM panel comes to the idea to require (after each order or deposit) a norder ID approval in the thread.. I mean it's not against the rules Sure, the example is a bit over the roof, but you got the point - there are sellers who, out of which reason whatsoever, don't want to trash-bump the marketplace or just can't, due to their business nature, implement those order ID bumps as good as some others and those are just way behind.
Moreover, creating a fake image (as far as forging a fake customer base) is easier than ever before, especially with those bumps.

Again, I appreciate your honest opinion on my suggestion and I'm glad you can understand the gist - I also acknowledge the concerns you mentioned regarding the sensitivity of this topic, still my proposal remains untouched as I think the point is still valid.

 

[Deleted member 1274522]

If possible may any of the Marketplace Mods position themselves on this matter? Due to their experience on-site, your opinion would be valued highly as far as the usefulness and practicality is concerned.
@Zwielicht @BassTrackerBoats @davids355 @MisterF @Society Girl @WilhelmScream (sorry if I tagged some non-marketplace related stuff)

 

[kn1ves]

Just wait for BHW 2.0. @Diamond Damien mentioned that they’re reworking the marketplace and it’ll hopefully solve this.

 

[MisterF]

If possible may any of the Marketplace Mods position themselves on this matter? Due to their experience on-site, your opinion would be valued highly as far as the usefulness and practicality is concerned.
@Zwielicht @BassTrackerBoats @davids355 @MisterF @Society Girl @WilhelmScream (sorry if I tagged some non-marketplace related stuff)

I've had several people message me about this and similar matters recently, and asking why members make an appearance after 6 years to bump a couple of BSTs then vanish.

It's clear why certain sellers do it and people are aware of who these people are. Easiest way is to ignore them, so you don't see them.

 

[Elvlin]

It will be great if marketplace at bhw 2.0 act more like real e commerce. We can choose method to use bhw as middle manm and every order or checkout is inside bhw. That way we will be more safe, and it will be harder to scam or make fake orders, review, etx

 

[Sephrata]

There is a lot of backhanded ways in which sellers are circumventing the rules to bump their BSTs.

I have two examples of this which are rife in the marketplace:

1. Some sellers encourage/ask/force a buyer (or prospective buyer) to post in their BST asking for a review copy or when they place an order. I have recently been given some examples of sellers who will not process orders unless the buyer posts in the BST confirming the order.

2. A number of sellers are proactively messaging people who have bought their services to post a pre-written review with a SERPBook screenshot, often cross-posting in multiple BSTs. I have spoken to one buyer of a service that can barely speak a word of English, yet he's been told to post a raving review in a BST in near perfect English even though he has absolutely no clue what he is posting.

I've had several people message me about this and similar matters recently, and asking why members make an appearance after 6 years to bump a couple of BSTs then vanish.

It's clear why certain sellers do it and people are aware of who these people are. Easiest way is to ignore them, so you don't see them.

I just report them. They are nothing more than shill accounts that are being used to manipulate the forum.

 

[seoboyz01]

I got few sales a week, but my buyers are lazy enough not to post an order id or comment on my thread

I really hope, they should post at least a comment upon placing an order, so that my thread will get a genuine bump
plus, when a buyer post a confirmation of order placed, it shows that people are buying my service and it is active. Hence attracting some more sales.

Another thing is self bumping.
I am fine with the 72 hour rule.

But, there should a simple bump button without posting a comment (by the seller).
Every time writing something to bump my own service makes me look shameless.

Now you can laugh

 

[SocialEyez]

I was looking at the Order IDs as some kind of "social proof", considering they are real, you usually want to see that for an old BST, people are still buying the service to date, its still active, etc.

Forcing buyers to post it or faking it, well that's not right, and should be enforced in a way.

 

[Deleted member 1274522]

I've had several people message me about this and similar matters recently, and asking why members make an appearance after 6 years to bump a couple of BSTs then vanish.

It's clear why certain sellers do it and people are aware of who these people are. Easiest way is to ignore them, so you don't see them.

Well, ignoring bypasses the inconvenience of going through bunch of spammy pages in order to find "real reviews", but doesn't prevent any of the other points mentioned before.
In my opinion this suggestion is a clear and general improvement of the BHW Marketplace environment and should be taken into consideration a.) for BHW 2.0 (as it was indicated before in this thread) or b.) once and for all starting with the current BHW.

There is a lot of backhanded ways in which sellers are circumventing the rules to bump their BSTs.

I have two examples of this which are rife in the marketplace:

1. Some sellers encourage/ask/force a buyer (or prospective buyer) to post in their BST asking for a review copy or when they place an order. I have recently been given some examples of sellers who will not process orders unless the buyer posts in the BST confirming the order.

2. A number of sellers are proactively messaging people who have bought their services to post a pre-written review with a SERPBook screenshot, often cross-posting in multiple BSTs. I have spoken to one buyer of a service that can barely speak a word of English, yet he's been told to post a raving review in a BST in near perfect English even though he has absolutely no clue what he is posting.



I just report them. They are nothing more than shill accounts that are being used to manipulate the forum.

Sure thing, that's exactly what I'm trying to point out and get to change. With the current set of rules (correct me if I'm wrong) "politely requiring" a buyer to post a review, even if it's not being as forced as you given an example from, is not against the regulations, thus making a report completely useless.
This actively enforced manipulating of the Marketplace should and must be stopped or at least be improved by showing "the black sheep" sellers that they can't continue with their low qualitative fake bumping.

I got few sales a week, but my buyers are lazy enough not to post an order id or comment on my thread

I really hope, they should post at least a comment upon placing an order, so that my thread will get a genuine bump
plus, when a buyer post a confirmation of order placed, it shows that people are buying my service and it is active. Hence attracting some more sales.

But pro-actively obliging the buyers to post their order ID in your sales thread is just beyond ridiculous and even makes said posts look suspicious and fake. If an honest buyer decides to post a review and/or comment before or after purchasing it's completely legitimate, but posting that they ordered x product is a non-sense and quality depriving technique.
If order ID bumping is banned globally, it will fix the issue you added: getting a genuine bump. No seller would be left with a disadvantage as everyone has their "normal" thread with them being able to bump their thread every 72 hours.

I was looking at the Order IDs as some kind of "social proof", considering they are real, you usually want to see that for an old BST, people are still buying the service to date, its still active, etc.

Forcing buyers to post it or faking it, well that's not right, and should be enforced in a way.

Emphasizing "considering they are real" when in fact lots of them aren't. Asking or requiring a buyer to post their order ID is not a social proof as there are services (which don't impel their customers to do so) and they're just as legit as the other sellers, if not even more trust-worthy as they're not needing and "social proof" (referring to fake bumping) to back up their product.


All in all, my idea might not be the best or the way I proposed to implement it isn't as doable as I thought of it to be, though the issue, as a matter of effect, persits and shall not be ignored.

 

[BassTrackerBoats]

I'll toss in some thoughts here.

You cannot control what a client is going to post in your thread if they choose to post order ID.

Asking them to do that is a tad cheeky in my opinion and I've never done that in the close to 10 years I've been selling here and I've done real well with sales threads in general.

Asking them to leave a review is also something I do not do and would never pay them extra links if they did (we see that at times and I think it is bribery) but if they choose to do that on their own that is OK by me.

Damien and I actually had a conversation about the order ID thing a while back and there was some conversation with the staff in general about it. Those conversations are not for public consumption as mine with Damien was a personal one and details of anything in the Mod forum being shared in public is not only reason to get booted from being a staff member but probably booted from BHW.

Let's see how 2.0 shakes out and give those that are in charge of the upgrading in the Marketplace as to rules and such some time to work on things.

 

[Deleted member 1274522]

I'll toss in some thoughts here.

You cannot control what a client is going to post in your thread if they choose to post order ID.

Asking them to do that is a tad cheeky in my opinion and I've never done that in the close to 10 years I've been selling here and I've done real well with sales threads in general.

Asking them to leave a review is also something I do not do and would never pay them extra links if they did (we see that at times and I think it is bribery) but if they choose to do that on their own that is OK by me.

Damien and I actually had a conversation about the order ID thing a while back and there was some conversation with the staff in general about it. Those conversations are not for public consumption as mine with Damien was a personal one and details of anything in the Mod forum being shared in public is not only reason to get booted from being a staff member but probably booted from BHW.

Let's see how 2.0 shakes out and give those that are in charge of the upgrading in the Marketplace as to rules and such some time to work on things.

Thanks for your feedback.
As multiple people in this thread have referenced to, it's probably the wisest and best thing to just wait for BHW 2.0 and hope for top-notch improvements regarding the (already qualitative) Marketplace!

I'm unsure on how to proceed with this thread: Shall we close it or remain it open as it's uncertain whether the improvement has been accepted / rejected?

 

[BassTrackerBoats]

Thanks for your feedback.
As multiple people in this thread have referenced to, it's probably the wisest and best thing to just wait for BHW 2.0 and hope for top-notch improvements regarding the (already qualitative) Marketplace!

I'm unsure on how to proceed with this thread: Shall we close it or remain it open as it's uncertain whether the improvement has been accepted / rejected?

I think leaving it open can be productive.

6 weeks or so 2.0 will be out and then we'll go from there but the staff ALWAYS welcome ideas and suggestions from the community.

 

[Salamouna]

I want BHW to take the payment for me on 2.0
and that's the good thing

 

[Deleted member 1333509]

Will be interesting to see the updates built into 2.0. I know that no details of it can be mentioned at this point, but what about how long it's been in development? Have you guys been working on this for a while?

 

[onlinemarketer12]

I think sellers asking for posting order I'd is fine. Sellers side should also be seen and there should be ways for them to get more views and traffic.

 

[achiever2011]

Many sellers are abusing this in different ways. I saw a particular seller for which most of thread posts were these order I'd posted only.