Why Google is Winning, and Why Its a Good Thing

The reason I plainly disagree with your post is that backlinks are still king. This means that it is a web democracy. The more google is able to remove individual control from the success of your site and forces you to depend on others to boost you through votes, the inherently more corrupt and closed web space will become.

BHW is a place for "small businessmen", and Google winning is a bad thing because it slowly serves to eliminate the small businessmen, just as US politics has mirrored.

Google's updates have not forced you to create good content. They have almost all been directly related to removing "unlawful" votes. Them catching duplicate content is just an obvious change they made that is irrelevant to the grand scheme of their original plan, which is to aggregate votes to place the most effective sites at the top.

And I don't believe in democracy because I believe the majority of people are really, really stupid. Anyone who dislikes the way Google ranks things will inevitably be the same.

BHMan said:

The reason I plainly disagree with your post is that backlinks are still king. This means that it is a web democracy. The more google is able to remove individual control from the success of your site and forces you to depend on others to boost you through votes, the inherently more corrupt and closed web space will become.

BHW is a place for "small businessmen", and Google winning is a bad thing because it slowly serves to eliminate the small businessmen, just as US politics has mirrored.

Google's updates have not forced you to create good content. They have almost all been directly related to removing "unlawful" votes. Them catching duplicate content is just an obvious change they made that is irrelevant to the grand scheme of their original plan, which is to aggregate votes to place the most effective sites at the top.

And I don't believe in democracy because I believe the majority of people are really, really stupid. Anyone who dislikes the way Google ranks things will inevitably be the same.

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I dont see where you got the idea that I claimed backlinks are not king. Will you people please stop putting words in my mouth?

To respond to your disagreeing with me, I ask you this: what is the motive?

WHY would google want to punish the smaller sites?

-To make them spend money on ads? They dont have that much money

-To promote big corporations to the top? They dont take payments for high organic rankings, if they did the ensuing scandal would destroy their entire reputation.

-To prevent relevant information from reaching users? Users would abandon Google for a search engine that does.

I agree that big corporations dominate the SERPs. But thats because they spend a shit ton on SEO and have a lot of natural link juice, (i.e. they earned it). This argument is like saying "i'm a small restaurant, and its SO UNFAIR that mcdonalds gets to have television commercials!!!"

Taktical said:

Some people's ability to miss the point is absolutely astounding.

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Really? Please explain how a monopoly is good? By setting rules that they constantly change on a monthly basis? By hiding behind a secret algorithm that promotes sites by some secret agenda that they are only privy too? Did they use their new found stature to stand up to the Chinese government?

!@#$ Matt and that damn penguin! And no my sites weren't hit hard by Penguin they actually rose but I know how these bastards work to screw the little guy.

Bite the hand that feeds you my BHW friends.

So corporations spend a crapload of cash of SEO... And there are lots of legit SEO professionals on here...

Guess its time to go for the big fish!

What the fuck? What the hell does "It legitimizes us" mean anyway? Who the hell cares if someone keyword stuffs, if it's working. It's not illegal so just do it (well, 15 years ago maybe). What I don't like is that we increasingly have to do more to rank, whether in raw effort or ingenuity, or a mix of both. It's like in PPC - would you rather pay $0.05 per click or $5? I for one don't enjoy paying/doing more work. Because if I did less work per dollar earned, I could use the spare time to earn more money than I already do. It's all about ROI. So this thread, in my humble opinion, is not good. It's not good that G decreases anyone's ROI, you're a dumbass if you think doing more work for a dollar (i.e. the equivalent of a drop in wage) is good in any way shape or form.

SEO is full of scamming, in fact this is where it is rife. The main scams I think are SEO services themselves, they are overpriced to such astronomical levels that it would be impossible not to lose money in the vast majority of instances/without a huge amount of luck. The prices are so ridiculous it borders on scamming. Second, it's all the software, fancy products in SEO that come out, capitalizing on the dreams of newbies, high rankings for no work. A few of them might have worked at the start, but now, out of the box, even Xrumer is obsolete. I use Xrumer in a highly customized setup, but I also make manual submissions on high quality targets. How many people will grit their teeth, roll their sleeves up and execute like that? Google is winning because I MUST do that. If someone gave me the option to keyword stuff and make the same amount of money, then I would be a raving IDIOT not to take it.

So anyone who thinks increasing difficulty/constant algo changes are good needs their brain checked!

What happened to Bartman?

Very well said and exactly my point.

Competition is always good. SEOs now need to step up their game, become more professional marketers, and be more informed in what they are doing.
Its also great for business... a lot of small "seo gurus" will die and open up the market a little

BlackHat was always about being smarter, more resourceful, and being able to stop Google from cheating the little guy. If you think they are "for" anyone but their own money pits you are sadly mistaken. Google updated their searches in the terms of quality for some, but for the most part utter crap sites that have adwords campaigns are always going to be on top position ranking spots. No, they are not the ad spots, the actual ranking spots for some are held by force because they pay the most for their seo campaigns. You don't get it do you? With each update Matt hopes to crush out the little guy that made Google. If he could without losing money, he would make you PAY to use Google. Anyone who sides with Google is lame, wake up. You want them to keep bending you over without lube? Also look at YouTube, it became crappier than it possibly can. The only major way for anyone to get views and ranks is the same way. You got to be smart and mix in paid and free methods.

Taktical said:

There is so much argument amongst black hatters and SEOs about whether or not googles engineers are succeeding in achieving their goals. A lot of people like to claim that SEO is dead, and at the same time others claim that SEO will never die.

Each time google rolls out a new update new argument will inevitably ensue.

But who is right? And who is wrong? Clearly there must be one correct answer, either Google is achieving their goals and ending our profession, or they are not and we will prevail.

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I don't think it's really a matter of who will win out, as with any top-notch company Google is in the business of providing a the highest of the high quality to their consumers. With this recently massive influx of low quality MNS that have risen, Google has to come in and update their product to filter BS. Five medium quality articles on a particular micro-niche just to get ad sense traffic WILL most certainly not cut it for Google as a quality product. One thing to notice is anyone with a high quality, high content, with constant updating/revising/addition is doing just as good before any update if/not even better because they are providing a quality product. Quality over quantity all day everyday and twice on Sundays. When you get quality AND quantity, well then that's when you've hit the jackpot folks.

Hope my two cents provided some insight!

bertbaby said:

Really? Please explain how a monopoly is good? By setting rules that they constantly change on a monthly basis? By hiding behind a secret algorithm that promotes sites by some secret agenda that they are only privy too? Did they use their new found stature to stand up to the Chinese government?

!@#$ Matt and that damn penguin! And no my sites weren't hit hard by Penguin they actually rose but I know how these bastards work to screw the little guy.

Bite the hand that feeds you my BHW friends.

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Find where I said "monopolies are good" and i will paypal you $100.. make that $500. Your arguments are based solely on changing my argument around and inventing quotes that I did not say.

I am not "siding with Google". If i could figure out a way to scam the living hell out of Google forever I would jump on it in an instant. But that doesn't exist. BH methods are inherently temporary, which is why so few people actually make a buck in the end. The majority of people either waste their time for pennies or give up early.

MY POINT IS, that there is a silver lining to our situation. And as Google continues to pound us and make life more difficult, our little sub-culture is maturing and instead of building little shit sites that take advantage of some algorithm glitch, we are forced to build longer lasting businesses that offer real value and earn money in a sustainable way.

And YES its harder. But thats what makes it worth it.



Next time you want to quote me, use the quote button.

Taktical said:

Some people's ability to miss the point is absolutely astounding.

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Yeah, Increasing font size adds value to a point, the same way raising your volume in an argument helps you seem more "correct".

Your point: Google has forced us to play their game, but in the end it's a good thing because it has turned most of us here into "quality content" machines, and weeded out all the garbage spewing automation... Yeah... it wasn't that hard to grasp.

My point which was missed: Regardless of what Google's intentions are or what you percieve them to have done to this community (for better or for worse) - They have the power to do whatever they want with pretty much the entire internet. Sure, people can claim that good content/honest work/quality back linking will keep you safe - HOWEVER, I'm sure those who have practiced completely "white hat" techniques and yet had still taken it in the rear from Google, have a much different opinion.

Some people produce amazing content and never get penalized. Some produce garbage and claim it as "100% unique and original content" and come on here being deceptive when requesting for help. Others however, have played by Google's rules, creating truly 100% quality content, yet still got screwed over somehow, Simply because Google has the power to do so. Yea, some highly respected IM/BH community members may preach that all they ever do is produce truly authentic and helpful/enjoyable content and they have never once been penalized, but always remember that each and every one of us is 1 in 100,000+.

TheBlueWizard said:

Yeah, Increasing font size adds value to a point, the same way raising your volume in an argument helps you seem more "correct".

Your point: Google has forced us to play their game, but in the end it's a good thing because it has turned most of us here into "quality content" machines, and weeded out all the garbage spewing automation... Yeah... it wasn't that hard to grasp.

My point which was missed: Regardless of what Google's intentions are or what you percieve them to have done to this community (for better or for worse) - They have the power to do whatever they want with pretty much the entire internet. Sure, people can claim that good content/honest work/quality back linking will keep you safe - HOWEVER, I'm sure those who have practiced completely "white hat" techniques and yet had still taken it in the rear from Google, have a much different opinion.

Some people produce amazing content and never get penalized. Some produce garbage and claim it as "100% unique and original content" and come on here being deceptive when requesting for help. Others however, have played by Google's rules, creating truly 100% quality content, yet still got screwed over somehow, Simply because Google has the power to do so. Yea, some highly respected IM/BH community members may preach that all they ever do is produce truly authentic and helpful/enjoyable content and they have never once been penalized, but always remember that each and every one of us is 1 in 100,000+.

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I dont see how these two arguments are related.

Google's algorithm and Google's business behavior are really not the same thing.

And yes, the algo isn't 100% at all and is still really fucked up. I personally am dealing with a site that isn't ranking for jack shit despite being built perfectly.

I certainly dont disagree with the pitfalls of monopolies.

A little story. Before doing IM I had a more "standard" job in some undisclosed IT role with an A list of clients that paid me in the low 6 figure ballpark a year, more than a comfortable sum anywhere in the world, just to clarify I'm not some skid in for the proverbial quick buck... Well, personally speaking, the reason why I started doing IM full-time (being comparably successful money-wise, thank god..) is EXACTLY for NOT having to be a businessman in the general sense of the term with all the standard chores that it requires: above all having to meet with other "business ppl" for the majority of whom I have learned to feel a utter and healthy disrespect. Most of these supposedly more legit "businessmen and women" managed to climb up the corporate ladder for the most various reasons and almost always in the same unethical ways blackhat kids do in their basement. Or way worse. Wearing a fancy suit in some hi-end lobby at a conference doesn't make you more legit in my book and it never will, sorry.. I don't see any increase of legitimacy in paying a big firm to rig the SERPs instead of paying "joe blackhat" hired off a forum LIKE A LOT OF MUSIC LABELS do, for instance... And not talking because a friend of a friend told me that... So NO I firmly disagree with this presumed "legitimacy" theory or why it should be better (assuming google is REALLY winning, that's debatable at best). I'll agree the only thing most "SEO firms" have is money and a more acceptable image for the masses that doesn't make any difference in my book nor gives more credibility to them in any shape or form. A scam artist firm is no different than a scam "solo" artist, amen.

Like this as I don't make spam/small sites, just large site brands.

BUT

The problem is my white hat business site with natural SEO got fucked the other day. From #4 > #300.
I haven't managed it or worked on it much, just minor content updates..

Google's Algo's are going to hurt local/small business owners..
Forcing them to shell out $$$ for PPC.

I think that's Google's goal..

Make SEO so hard/complex, that the # of people that know how to do it is limited.
Thus more and more people turn to PPC..

Google isn't the good guy, they aren't your friend.
At the end of the day they are doing it to make more money..

Sure they are cleaning up the web in the process, making it better for users..
But they are making it more costly to operate websites, content, seo, etc.

It's a give and take, where Google takes too much, my thoughts..

Is SEO dead will it die? No, it will just become harder and people will have to adapt, those who don't will be lost..
Those trying to learn will find it more difficult.. Those who want quick cash methods will slowly shrink away a bit.

The idea of making $$$ overnight with SEO and websites will become more limited.. Turning those who were once newbies and interested away.
While the people who really follow and know this stuff will excel and make more cash.

Taktical said:

MY POINT IS, that there is a silver lining to our situation. And as Google continues to pound us and make life more difficult, our little sub-culture is maturing and instead of building little shit sites that take advantage of some algorithm glitch, we are forced to build longer lasting businesses that offer real value and earn money in a sustainable way.

And YES its harder. But thats what makes it worth it.

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I guess the 80% above the fold ad space/google space on most current google terms is good for SEOers too?

They have at least 2 times as much "owned" space than bing/yahoo.
There's absolutely nothing google does that is good for a small business.

Genius! Just restored my faith in Google's vision as a company. I had never thought about the changes like this and now I'm actually thinking it's a good thing now. My old sites got hurt so now by promoting new ones with higher quality then I can re-rank. Thanks for this post. I'm not going to read the debate about this because I feel it irrelevant.

Expertpeon said:

I guess the 80% above the fold ad space/google space on most current google terms is good for SEOers too?

They have at least 2 times as much "owned" space than bing/yahoo.
There's absolutely nothing google does that is good for a small business.

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No that sucks balls. They're def scumbags for that.

Shit, theres so many marry go round on this thread. I'll chip in my views
- Goog made it harder for spammer to rank (its not 2005 anymore people)
- People who believe they are not spammer are happy (till they get the boot themselves, dont be too sure man)
- People who are spammer, and this is only like 15% of them, can still rank (just look at the SERP, do you really believe only quality content rank?)
- Some people who dont rank should started to utilize other traffic avenue rather than just be Googs bitch, think social network and other SE
- No, big companies dont just get away with it, if you look at some of the big name that got their traffic slashed you'll see (google it)
- If you can't go high, go wide. Quality beats quantity everytime, but if quality is too hard for you, try quantity, its the next best thing

And oh yeah, I'm using the term spammer loosely. By Googs definition all of us are spammers anyway, link must come naturally remember. Also content are not necessarily just articles, think of tools, game, other time waster etc.

Google wants us to build "white hat " links. Yes, you are right. Why would Google want us to build whitehat manual links? SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WORK.

SEO that doesn't work would result in what?? Starts with a P and ends with a C and results in more M.O.N.E.Y For them.

Weird concept right?

Good summary OP.