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Why Google is Winning, and Why Its a Good Thing

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by Taktical, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. Taktical

    Taktical Elite Member

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    There is so much argument amongst black hatters and SEOs about whether or not googles engineers are succeeding in achieving their goals. A lot of people like to claim that SEO is dead, and at the same time others claim that SEO will never die.

    Each time google rolls out a new update new argument will inevitably ensue.

    But who is right? And who is wrong? Clearly there must be one correct answer, either Google is achieving their goals and ending our profession, or they are not and we will prevail.

    The answer is, both.

    Why Google is winning

    For many years the practice of "black hat" search engine optimization techniques were prevalent. Google was inundated with spam sites that did not provide the search results that they wanted for their users.

    SEO used to be easy, truly any idiot could do it. All you had to do was slap together a site, stick a keyword into it numerous times in the header, in the title, and the body, run xrumor or scrape box software, maybe post some articles, for a couple of weeks? And BAM you got a number one ranking site that pulls in thousands of users every day.

    Each time a new Google update came out, the process got more complicated and difficult.

    First we had to stop keyword stuffing
    Then we had to build more types of links
    Then we had to stop reciprocating and paying for links
    Then we had to clean up spammy tactics like cloaking
    Then we had to build link trees,
    Then we had to randomize those link structures,
    Then we had to worry about duplicate content on our site,
    Then we had to worry about the sandbox,
    Then we had to worry about duplicate content on our links,
    Then we had to worry about poor quality content on our sites..
    and so on...

    Google is winning because they are forcing us to play by their rules. We have to build links more white hat. Every service on BHW is "Manual linkbuilding" this and "fresh, unique content" that. We are doing what they always wanted us to do, building high quality, content rich websites that people actually want to visit, and promoting them by branding our pages with things like press releases and social virality.

    People will argue "all you have to do is have solid content". Well my friend that was Google's mission, wasn't it?


    Why its not so bad...

    Because it legitimizes us. It takes this community from a bunch of scam artists who post garbage for a few bucks a week into a place where businessmen and women get together to talk about how to build lasting businesses. Rank your site the right way, and you'll stay there for a very long time and make more money than you would with black hat. Provide real value, and your business will grow beyond your wildest dreams. Do the right thing, and you can have big clients pay you major money to do their marketing for them.


    SEO will never die. But black hat will...
    .
     
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  2. RightInTwo

    RightInTwo Power Member

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    Nice post. One of the things that drives me crazy about people complaining about updates is that they aren't ahead of the game. To be good at SEO, you have to anticipate what is going to happen. The old tricks just aren't going to cut it anymore.
     
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  3. M1ndfluX

    M1ndfluX Senior Member

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    BHSEO will never die, only the old tactics...
     
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  4. knockoutlocal

    knockoutlocal Junior Member

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    I agree too. I think it's great for serious SEOs in general because it separates the riffraff from the people diligently working hard and smart. I think SEO getting harder will also put upward pressure on fees to clients as well...
     
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  5. Checkered hat

    Checkered hat Junior Member

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    Do you think that "quality content" is The thing that separates scammers from bussinesmen? There is so much wrong with this statement that I don't know where to start dissecting it. Scammers are not people who spammed serps with low quality sites. It's called spammers. Scammers can do very careful, calculated and clever attacks with content of so high quality it fools not Google but real target of scammers, ie people.
    Spammers are not equal to scammers. Hope it's out of our way now.

    If you really believe that building sites are google want you to build will make your business stay on top, then I disagree again. Last updates hit so much white hat sites that it's not even funny. Google is an algorithm. You can try to bend over it every few months standing in "face down, ass up" position and even succeed at winning favor of Google but... It's not what makes Business successful. What I mean is if you want to concentrate maximum of your efforts on long term project think of People first, People as in customers, clients, supporters, fans etc. Don't think of google, you sell to people and google licks ass of brands. So build a brand and google will lick your ass instead of you licking it's ass.
    Oh, I would reverse it. SEO can die, not completely but lose it's efficiency. As more and more other traffic sources will dominate traffic SEO can lose it's share in grat scheme of things. But that's it. No drama just change of focus.

    And Black Hat will never die. Read history. Look around. Brains and Balls will always make money and win.

    This is shortcut to success. That's why we are here and not on WF or DP asking for next great WSO from people who are clueless.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  6. ryannull

    ryannull Senior Member

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    I agree to disagree. I understand what you are saying, and most of it is true.

    Google has 2 set of rules, one for big corporations and the other, is for everyone else.

    In many of the popular niches, such as insurance and financing, the big corporations rule the front page. The front page is bought and paid for, regardless if they claim it to be "organic". When a web site breaches the front page of those particular niches, Google manually removes and/or penalizes them. In most cases, it is deserved. Even if you did everything 100% whitehat, fresh content daily and met Google's guidelines 100%, you will still get knocked off the front page.
     
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  7. squidkai1

    squidkai1 Junior Member

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    I have to disagree with you. I believe what OP is stating that the long term affect that Google has on us is changing the way we think, feel, and do business which is a good thing.

    To continue to be successful we have to start thinking more about the needs of the business and to adapt to it.

    Businesses fail when they do not adapt to change. New quote of 2012 "Embrace the change"
     
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  8. seany

    seany Regular Member

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    Blackhat doesnt just apply to SEO, so blackhat will never ever die because people will always find ways around the system to make money, yes SEO is becoming more and more whitehat, but thats only until there is a work around penguin/panda and people will be black hat again
     
  9. lancis

    lancis Elite Member

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    Google definitely affects the way I think and act. When I started with SEO and was pretty much a green noob, I honestly believed that with some SEO tricks I will earn tons of money.

    However, after a year I realized that no matter what niche I choose its too small for my ambitions. E.q. if I'm to rely on organic traffic I have to cover a lot of niches, or do something extremely different. Luckily I chosen the 2nd path, which was branding.

    I still do own a lot of MNS sites. However, all of them bring much less than the brand I own. The best part - the brand is not affected by any Google algorithms. For the keywords I consider main, it sits somewhere on the 2nd/3rd page, because amazingly when I pushed it to the 1st spot for a few of them it didn't bring much more traffic. The main traffic (almost 75%) comes from people searching for the brand name in Google.

    I think that this is where we are all headed SEO-wise - total separation from search engines.
     
  10. Taktical

    Taktical Elite Member

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    You're misquoting me. I never said that. I still "spam" google all the time with my linkbuilding efforts. Trying to push as much as possible.

    What I dont do, is post nonsense content or trick users into clicking or downloading something using things like floating buttons or hidden links. That is SCAM.

    Our mentality is changing. We're not trying to CHEAT the system anymore, we're just trying to be the best at playing into it.





    Again, you're taking me out of context. My post clearly states that what Google wants is to make the users happy. They are not "evil scumbags" trying to ruin us. They want people to be happy, so by extension we are building good companies for both Google and people...and quality content and branding is what we're trying to achieve. So I agree with your statement, and I never said anything to the contrary.



    If you believe that theres a shortcut to success then I have some dick enlargement pills to sell you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
  11. Taktical

    Taktical Elite Member

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    Nonsense. Thats insane.

    I know for a fact that Bank of America hired an SEO firm to achieve rankings for the for the keyterm "credit cards" (they're somewhere on the first page now). I know this because I met the director of marketing for BofA at Internet Week NYC, and I know which firm he hired. It took them almost 18 months and they still haven't hit number 1.

    All the major corporations play the same game we do, they just have more money, power, influence, and patience than us. And their websites have been around too long and get too much real juice to compete with. Who are you to compete with a website that has 87 links from the New York Times?
     
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  12. akazzz

    akazzz Regular Member

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    Google taking a huge majority of the search traffic is a good thing as well. Currently right now, all we have to do is analyze how Google ranks their keywords.
    Imagine if Bing, Yahoo & all the other search engines has 10% each of the search traffic with Google as well at 10%. Then ranking for Google won't be enough anymore to make decent $. If that ever happens, we have to analyze & study each search engine on how they rank their keywords which is a big hassle.
     
  13. bertbaby

    bertbaby Elite Member

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    Yes, a monopoly running the entire Internet is a good thing and please pass along the Kool Aid.
     
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  14. ryannull

    ryannull Senior Member

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    Big corporations play the same game? That may be partially true, but the rules are different.

    Not too long ago BMW got deindexed for cloaking. They were able to talk to Matt Cutts directly and get back in the serps.

    So, you tell me, if you got deindexed for cloaking, the EXACT same thing as BMW, do you think you will be able to talk to Matt directly, let alone get back your serps? No way!

    The rules are different for big corporations and the little guys.
     
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  15. Taktical

    Taktical Elite Member

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    Fair enough. I concede that point. But thats a far cry from "bought and paid for first page rankings"
     
  16. Scritty

    Scritty Elite Member Premium Member

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    Well - even those that say they agree don't seem to agree.

    All I Can say is 2011/12 by far my most success in 16 years in this game. And it's 100% SEO.
    However, I reckon to 90% of the people on this forum SEO just means "link building" and no content and site optimization. Or at least spend the vast majority of time link building.
    That's old hat - and I hear people running around with their fingers in their ears, their eyes closed shouting "not listening - not listening" at the top of their voice when someone says "So how good is your content then"

    Today for instance, before I go away for 5 days I looked at 4 of my members sites who had issues. 1 had been hacked, one was too new to really comment, the other two had (and I've moderated my language - and told them I was going to use them as an example before doing this) very VERY poor content wise.
    Wierd thing is - initially they thought they were good or VERY good content wise

    Keyword stuffed, borderline plagirised no internal linking, very thin, borderline topic related, badly tagged and not site interlinked....in both cases "But I paid $7 for 500 words"

    Shocking - really? [facepalm]

    Then I have the other deniers (not my members - other guys - ones who PM me with the titile "Hey look at my site for me man" (which - as I was brought up not to respect a$$holes with no manners - gets deleted before I even open it) - Some ask nicely, and I'll see what I can do. For the few that are "content issue deniers" here's how a typical (caractured) conversation goes.


    My Question:
    "Well, we can see your links, but now let's have a look at the website they are linking to, let's have a proper look at your website"
    Their Reply: " Ok, but I can tell you one thing ..the problem..well ... It's not my content.. really it's not my content.. I can guarantee it's not my content"

    I look at the content, they are looking over my shoulder metaphorically - we are normally on Skype or whatever... as I run some metrics on it. As usual (and this is 19 times out of 20) the content is total crap - but let's be nice about this. I "Hmmm" a bit and "tut" a little maybe - that's when they jump right in...

    Client: You're going to say it's my content and site aren't you..well it isn't
    I say: "Well have you at least TRIED to add new and better content and link sensibly to it?"
    Answer: "No"
    My Reply: "Why?"
    Answer: "Because the problem is not my content"
    My Reply: "How do you know"
    Answer: "Not listening laaa laaa laaa the problem's not my content...laaaa laaa Google is just picking me out..individually...I'm THAT important they have decided to vicitimise me..this is FAR more likely in my content being shit in my egocentric fantasy world... It's not my content, it's just that my site is that important it was going to bring the government down, change the whole economic structure of the world. I paid $7 for that homepage text of 500 words from a guy at Elancer. laaa laa laaa laaa it's not my content"

    Ok that's not everyone (in fact many people take the hint and do something about their site structure and content quality and quantity - and most of those have benefitted from it) but I do get the odd drongo go through this routine. And I see it here sometimes.

    SEO is like archery.
    Links are arrows
    Your site is the target

    The better quality - larger and better oriented the target is..the more arrows will hit.
    It's not f%cking rocket science. As analogies go it's so "on the nose" that it's almost not an analogy at all, just a statement of blindingly obvious fact.

    If you're too lazy/cheap to make or pay for a proper content, then just say "I'm too lazy - can I go back to working at Tescos please?" and we can all live happily ever after.

    Scritty
     
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  17. bertbaby

    bertbaby Elite Member

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    Actually, they probably just kicked in more money to their AdWords campaign and everything was smoothed over with the Big G. So you have a choice you can be cynical or you be naive but don't doubt for a minute it's about anything other than the ad dollars.
     
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  18. TheBlueWizard

    TheBlueWizard Junior Member

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    ^ - You had good intentions OP, but the issue is much deeper than Google trying to "control web spam". The issue is that Google has the power to do whatever they want.

    The real solution is to give your business to big G's competitors. Of course, at the expense of lower profits.
     
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  19. Winston_Smith

    Winston_Smith Junior Member

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    I don't necessarily disagree with the ending statement in OP's passage, but blackhatting's become way to huge to just suddenly die. Something that has a purpose can't really die, and if it no longer has a purpose then it'll end up evolving into something way better than it originally once was.
     
  20. Taktical

    Taktical Elite Member

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    Some people's ability to miss the point is absolutely astounding.