Why BlackHat SEO's Should Understand Computer Science

As the title implies, I wanted to outline a few small notes on why at least a basic understanding of computer science can/would benefit alot of blackhat guys on the forums.

First and foremost, after reading through a lot of the posts by different members who seem to feel like they are in a day in day out battle with google, I realize that for the most part people are forgetting one important thing Google is a PROGRAM NOT A PERSON.

I'm starting believe some guys think that Matt Cutts IS google or that google is some big team of people who are sitting around conducting search results for us manually.
Sounds silly enough but it's a serious problem. The sooner SEO's can digest that psychologically the better off your SEO efforts will be. I'm only saying this because I read so many threads about "google did this" or "google did that to my site". Just ask yourself, rationally speaking - with the size of the google search engine's index is it possible for them to care about your site or did you do something that the algo didn't like? I know this all sounds so simple, but we've known everything the algo didn't like from the start, if you study the very brief history of SEO you'll notice that overall we've only had a handful of victories (all very brief) followed by even bigger defeats.

Before you run off blasting links at your site with hopes to cash in, do you even understand what an algo is and how it works? What design patterns have to be set in place to build a proper search engine that can scale the way google has, and more importantly how updates to software the size of Google have to be made?

I've been ranking Websites using the same methods I started out with in 2008. Back then I didn't have a dime to my name so I HAD to build all of my links manually, I HAD to write all of my own articles, I had to create social Bookmarking accounts by hand so the sites I made in that time were exactly what google wanted or what they perceive to be quality. Can these task be automated? To a degree, but not without sacrificing Quality for quantity.

End of the day the short and sweet of it is this, No one here can create a program that can out think Google, we just plain don't have the resources. Every now and again someone uses their BRAIN to find out or accidentally stumbles upon a method that works and then they turn their brain off and share that method with the rest of the world and the method gets abused and caught onto faster than you can say google slap!

Algorithmically speaking, the only changes I have seen Goolge make over the past 5 years have been those to weed out Blackhat techniques, Panda, Penguin, The Addition of google news, Google Shopping Results have all been made in an effort to stop/deter marketers from spamming their search results and costing the company revenue. What the search engine actually WANTS has not changed even a bit in my eyes (Which is why guys with Enough Money own Private High PR Blog Networks And Outsource Tons of Content Can Still rank for Virtually Anything) aside from small ranking factors which include site social signals and site design/speed everything remains virtually untouched. The same High PR link that I needed to rank a site in my niche in 2008 is the EXACT same link that I would need to rank today.

There are guys here that I know for a fact own GSA and a Host of other tools but don't have 20 pages of content to rank do you think your tool is going to outsmart the Smartest team of programmers in the world, or were you just hypnotized buy the large red font on the WSO thread?

Moral of the story, there's still plenty of google hacks out there (none of which I will share ), Just look at how Google news is being spammed to shit! , and they still can't get shit together over at Youtube either. Find the weaknesses in the software and manipulate them when/while you can because they will get patched just as soon as they realize someone is making Dough without using Adwords!

Other than that give the program exactly what it wants and it shall reward you greatly in the long run! If you have been doing SEO for over a year and have not managed to figure out what that is as of yet then quit while you're ahead.. Spamming won't work anymore, never really has. Being able to think programmatically will benefit you largely when trying outsmart the software, being able to program will help you take action when you have found a weakness, and if you can't wrap your brain around the small things I detailed in this post you are going to have a verrrry long hard life as an SEO and may as well quite IM altogether. Trust me paid traffic is 10x harder to master, even if just on an emotional level.

That's all for my morning spill! lol

I agree with everything you said but ONE thing....

Spamming won't work anymore, never really has

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this is false, I have seen it first hand and when I 1st started out this was my only technique because I did not know better. It worked then and works now but the time they stay ranked has dropped quite a bit and once that site is on the radar it is near impossible to bring back.

The way to long term rankings is what you described but I have seen churn in burn methods that result in x,xxx to x,xxxx while the site(s) were alive and kicking.

You got a very important thing wrong. Google doesn't fight Blackhat webmaster or spammy sites, no it fights everyone who wants a share of the big cake...

Gary Becks said:

Spamming won't work anymore, never really has.

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So that is what I have been doing wrong the past decade or so. Thanks just off down to the bank to make sure the money I get paid every month is real or not.

Or should you have said "Spamming does not work for me, and never has done"?

Getwhatchuwant said:

I agree with everything you said but ONE thing.... this is false, I have seen it first hand and when I 1st started out this was my only technique because I did not know better. It worked then and works now but the time they stay ranked has dropped quite a bit and once that site is on the radar it is near impossible to bring back.

The way to long term rankings is what you described but I have seen churn in burn methods that result in x,xxx to x,xxxx while the site(s) were alive and kicking.

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In no way am I disagreeing with you on this. I have spammed site to top rankings over and over again. My point is that when these so called google updates happen, those are the only sites that get hit.

So from a programming perspective (which is what the thread is about - data analysis) it won't work. You spam a site to the top, google hits your site and all your traffic/money is gone. I've done this many a time, and there's nothing wrong with it if you want to make some quick quid. Def not a reliable business model though.

Gary Becks said:

Are you serious about what you just said? If that was the case new SEO tools would be released over and over again, people would just use Xrumer and Scrapebox all day and everything would rank.

Google 100% does have a very effective anti spam team tweaking there algo endlessly to decrease the chances of spam tactics beings used to rank websites. Show me site that you have ranked using profile links EXCLUSIVELY like you could 3 years ago.

Show me a thin MFA site still ranking for anything worthwhile off of crappy article directory links like you could 4 years ago. It's doesn't exist. If what you were saying was true people wouldn't be wasting hours on top of hours building so called "tiered links" or "link pyramids" etc.

It's not what you do, it's how ya do it.

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What is your fascination with the past, just because you cannot rank a website purely with profile links, does not mean you cannot spam rank a website. Also aren't you contradicting yourself, you said spam never worked and now you are saying it was easy three years ago.

.....

And the new, tech geek computer scientifically algorithmically analysed top ranking method and software are just a few threads away....

Only $99.99

mickyfu said:

What is your fascination with the past, just because you cannot rank a website purely with profile links, does not mean you cannot spam rank a website. Also aren't you contradicting yourself, you said spam never worked and now you are saying it was easy three years ago.

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Ok, I apologize, I have obviously gone over your head. My point is not that you can't rank a site with spam, but that you can't KEEP a site ranked with spam. If you can then prove it, out of the thousands of sites that I've owned not one of my sites that I ranked off of spamming is still making anything more than gas money today.

The point of this post was to point out how having any knowledge of computer science and algo's in general could benefit you as an SEO if you are trying to build a real online business, Not a Whitehat / Vs Blackhat thing .

What is your fascination with the past, just because you cannot rank a website purely with profile links, does not mean you cannot spam rank a website. Also aren't you contradicting yourself, you said spam never worked and now you are saying it was easy three years ago.

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That depends on what your definition of "woked" . For me something working is not when it is profitable temporarily and then causes you to have to start all over again in the long run.

Spamming won't work anymore, never really has

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I stand by the statement because it's the cold truth. Most people have no actual strategy in place when building links to their site, or when they buy an Xrumer blast, or A GSA Blast, Or when they sign up for a new service. They are doing so because the "believe" it will worked based off of what the "gurus" and the guru affilliates selling the services have to say.

Not because they have made an informed decision to by the product based off of an understanding of what really "Works" as far as google is concerned and what is going to help their business grow in the long run.

mackay22 said:

.....

And the new, tech geek computer scientifically algorithmically analysed top ranking method and software are just a few threads away....

Only $99.99

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Actually nothing to sell at all, I make more money than I need OFFLINE, just disgusted by these posts that I am reading and all of the stupid misinformation being provided here.

Nobody cares if their spam site lasts three months, as they can quickly spam another in its place within days.

Now lets look at a lovely beautiful WH website, just how Matt likes them. Well it takes ages to put up there, then some little retarded kid comes along and ruins it in a jealous rage of not being able to out rank it.

We I certainly would not waste my time doing things Matt's way, it only leads to disappointment.

mickyfu said:

Nobody cares if their spam site lasts three months, as they can quickly spam another in its place within days.

Now lets look at a lovely beautiful WH website, just how Matt likes them. Well it takes ages to put up there, then some little retarded kid comes along and ruins it in a jealous rage of not being able to out rank it.

We I certainly would not waste my time doing things Matt's way, it only leads to disappointment.

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And with that post I am done. You have made my point for me. You keep putting up your new spam site every three months or few days my friend. I have better things to do with my time, some people actually want to live a real life and not sit in front of the computer all day building link after worthless link or babysitting programs just to come back and do it all over again. Why build 100 sites to do what 1 can accomplish?

Funny thing is I totally agree that , by "Doing it Matt's way" you will see disappointment. I clearly stated that in my op that I was partially inspired to even post here today because of reading posts with people spreading that kind of misinfo. There are plenty of methods that work that are not the typical "White Hat" way of doing things, spamming a bunch of links all over the place isn't.

With your comments it's easy to see that you have an agenda here to protect a spam service that your probably selling (I wont waste my time checking) because you obviously didn't even read my post before you jumped in on the defensive.

Anyhow, thanks for making my point clearer -

What has this post got to do with Computer Science?

Just saying.....

Gary Becks said:

And with that post I am done. You have made my point for me. You keep putting up your new spam site every three months or few days my friend. I have better things to do with my time, some people actually want to live a real life and not sit in front of the computer all day building link after worthless link or babysitting programs just to come back and do it all over again.

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I work roughly 1 - 2 hours a month. I spend six months of the year travelling. But of course, you should know what I do with my life, well why would you not, I have written comments on here.

Selling services? No do not waste your time, I sell nothing I am a casino affiliate.

Anyhow, keep churning Matt's dogshit talk for him, I am sure you may fool some.

Great post Gary,

Another key skill that could be gleaned from the study of Computer Science is the ability to write (even simple) computer programs. The language doesn't really matter (C#, VB.NET, Python or Java), it will give you the capability to automate things or implement methods that would otherwise require a huge time-sink.

"Google" is just a set of algorithms, with some humans occasionally pressing buttons behind the scenes. As such there will always be ways to game the algorithm, the whole 'Page Rank' ideology (i.e. the graph-based algorithm) was the founding principle of Google and has formed the backbone of the multi-billion dollar monster they have become. Deep down they're still using those core principles and they can still be gamed by an intelligent blackhatter.

That said I would rather invest my time in building something that creates value for users, such that while I may use some blackhat techniques to get it noticed - once it has reached critical mass of users it just grows itself. Really, it is about blackhatting people - not Google - how can you get people to do the hard work and make your site a never-ending stream of cash. And if it doesn't work out, or you get bored of the idea you have a real asset that can be flipped to someone else, instead of a trail of churned and burnt out EMD microsites.

OP, lots of inaccuracies in your OP but I am more interested in how the site you have listed as your hompage is ranking:



http://whois.webrankstats.com/whois/tumblinator.com


What strategies are you using there? Great Content?

Wow 146 days later and it is ranking for nothing, just hang in there OP, one day just one day someone may build you your first natural link.

I think within this time frame I have ranked many of sites, all pulling in good money. But hey, who would want many sites pulling in money, when you can have one white hat site pulling in a big fat fuck all?

More today than yesterday, programming is the art of understanding and using libraries that someone else wrote rather than understanding the intricacies of programming.

((HttpWebRequest)webRequestUri).Credentials = CredentialCache.DefaultCredentials;
((HttpWebRequest)webRequestUri).Host = host;
((HttpWebRequest)webRequestUri).KeepAlive = keepAlive;
((HttpWebRequest)webRequestUri).Method = method;
((HttpWebRequest)webRequestUri).ReadWriteTimeout = readWriteTimeout;
((HttpWebRequest)webRequestUri).Referer = referer;
((HttpWebRequest)webRequestUri).Timeout = timeout;
((HttpWebRequest)webRequestUri).UserAgent = userAgent;

everyone on this forum should invest some time into learning how to code in as many languages as possible (learning one at a time though). its a great resource and can be crucial to your success as a seo marketer