What the hell is this COVID about?

VSYNC said:

1. That comment was a group of links to information from mainstream sources backing up what he was saying.

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Backing up what he's saying? There you go again, misquoting and not even understanding the links you're referencing to? I can't seem to find his original post--guessing it was deleted. But assuming he's referring to the conspiracy theories that cases are purposely being exaggerated?

So... <inserts conspiracy theory about cases> and then posts links contradicting the conspiracy theory?

First link:
"There are those who claim flu cases haven't vanished at all, but are instead being recorded as Covid-19. Sceptics say Covid tests are unable to distinguish between coronavirus and flu, but this is simply untrue.

Scientists overwhelmingly agree the decline in flu cases is likely to be linked to interventions – social distancing, hand-washing, lockdowns and school and shop closures."

Second Link:
"Because influenza is less transmissible than SARS-CoV-2, these measures "likely contributed to a more substantial interruption in influenza transmission," according to Olsen and colleagues."

So who are the ones covering it up? Is it the scientists referred to in these links? And they're skewing the stats? Or why didn't they just skew that stats to make them look normal? Or is it the lab techs? Front-line doctors?

VSYNC said:

I'd prefer to be proved completely wrong by you about something I've said and have to retract it then try to stop you from putting your point of view forward. BHW is a great place for discussions because of the balance of letting people say things when they might disagree as long as it doesn't get abusive.

Just accept that people disagree with you on this and suck it up. Why try to prevent others from discussing things in a way you don't like bro?

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Yeah, because you think it's super easy to prove a conspiracy theory is fake? But it's so easy for you guys to be convinced conspiracy theories are true without any shred of evidence or logic.

ZeroDefects said:

I'm sorry you feel your echo chamber of online forums has been ruined. It may be a result of people's opinions being challenged as conspiracy theories when other don't agree.

Nevertheless, you're welcome your opinion, as we all are.

I'd welcome constructive and well sourced information to help better shape my opinions and theories, I try to be open minded like that.

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In your mind, what do you think the difference is between an opinion and a conspiracy theory?

ttmschine said:

There's supposedly some scientist who has infected himself with it twice, and because the antibodies disappear quickly a vaccine probably won't work, so I guess we'll just have to take our chances and nature will decide which DNA can continue and which needs trimming from the gene pool.

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Maybe, but I don't think I'd rely on hearsay / anecdotal evidence based on some random person's word on the internet So far it sounds like the vaccines have actually shown very promising results in regards to antibodies.

bartosimpsonio said:

It's not about my opinion. Everyone who knows me knows I respect opposing opinions.

Even some influential members of BHW initially disagreed with me about the virus, later came back to say hey this virus is real. The virus is real, we cannot control it, it's not a conspiracy. Nobody's pulling strings, it's something out of control of humanity. Not even the President of USA could do anything about it. The most powerful people in the world like Putin are in complete isolation. That should tell you something! Why are leaders like Putin isolated and others are going outside? All the responsible billionaires are staying isolated. Why then are people still believing this BS that they can safely go outside?

This is about a massive worldwide health crisis being made worse by conspiracy theorists.

The misleading information about the virus costs lives. Posting crazy false theories online costs lives.

Lots of people believe these crazy theories. Several people who died denied the virus, even well known personalities.

One recent case the fitness guru guy was dying and said he regretted having denied the virus. These influencers actually may have caused people to die. A fitness guru who misled his millions of followers may have cost 100, 200, 1000 lives.

This isn't about opinions.

Stop fucking denying the virus and pushing stupid conspiracy shit.

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The funny thing is I mentioned here few times I DO NOT SAY THE VIRUS IS NOT REAL. Bro, What the hell? you wrote The same post here like few times before ‚You Are all denying virus’ ‚The Virus is real’ ‚i know infected peoples’ DAMN ARE YOU SERIOUS?
I thought the virus is fake and the whole world is a conspiracy.

samiejg said:

Maybe, but I don't think I'd rely on hearsay / anecdotal evidence based on some random person's word on the internet So far it sounds like the vaccines have actually shown very promising results in regards to antibodies.

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It was in the news.

BREAKING: France just shut down.

Rest of Europe will follow suit. Perhaps then USA.

Praying for a vaccine ASAP.

bartosimpsonio said:

BREAKING: France just shut down.

Rest of Europe will follow suit. Perhaps then USA.

Praying for a vaccine ASAP.

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Yep we'll all be following suit. Madness really, they're locking down businesses basically, but schools - the breeding ground for infections and spreading diseases - are staying open.

Utterly nuts.

ttmschine said:

It was in the news.

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I gotcha. Although I find it hard to believe that any reputable news would say "a vaccine probably wouldn't work". Not sure which news that is, but at times they do like to speculate / exaggerate.

I don't know too much about it, but know it's fairly rare to catch it twice. Was trying to find a similar news article to what you were referring to and seen one reference to:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30764-7/fulltext
It does look like it has potential to be worrisome, but at the same time, looks rare and inconclusive. Maybe I'm just an optimistic, but I think it would be inaccurate for someone to conclude "a vaccine probably wouldn't work" based on this.

I'm not a doctor or anything, so I could be misinterpreting the information. But reading through it, it sounds like there's only as much as 4 people in the world who have been reinfected. I believe I also read something along the lines of there possibly being factors that could be effecting specific individuals and their antibody / immunity response. So my speculation would be that someone could have some sort of rare condition that effects their ability to make antibodies.

Too lazy to skim back through and find that, but here are some other quotes I found that stood out:
--"It is possible that we have reported a case of continuous infection entailing deactivation and reactivation"
--"The patient's immune reaction in vitro was not assessed and, thus, conclusions cannot be made about the duration or degree of immunity."
--"As such, the possibility of reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 is not well understood."
--"previous exposure to SARS-CoV-2 MIGHT not guarantee total immunity in all cases."

Germany also in a lockdown from 2nd November. Basically everything will close except schools and super markets. What can I say? It was just a matter of time. They already prepared the people by planting thoughts about a 2nd lockdown, a 2nd wave etc.

Also, please don't misunderstand me. I don't say the virus doesn't exist. Obviously, it does. But I am highly doubting if the security measures (Lockdown) are accurate if you actually take a look at the mortality rate, the people who are dying (basically no healthy person under 60 years), and all the other statistics from official (!) sources.

I am also wondering what is the deal with the media, YouTube/Google and Facebook? Why would they delete/ban/shadowban everyone who has a different opinion than the politicians. Even if those people are doctors/scientists themselves?! It is incredible. Like, there hundreds of doctors/virologists in Germany, which say the virus is not as dangerous as media says and they get totally shadow banned and some call them "conspiracy theorists". Wtf? I am really wondering how they can pull off such a shitshow.

And we have to be careful we don't become a world of "Idiocracy" where facts, science and statistics doesn't matter anymore. I mean, holy crap: They REALLY succeeded in confronting people with fear mongering, etc., while giving them no real information.

Like for example:

Why there is no media outlet, newspaper, politician or whatever and actually report facts? They could say:

"Here we have 1000 cases. 60% of them don't show any symptoms. Average age is 45 years. Two people already died, which were 87 and 69 and suffered from other chronic diseases already. Etc." - real information, no "are there going to be 5 million more infected until christmas?!?!?"

I mean, we always read about the infected people. But how many of them were really sick? How many show NO symptoms?

Then, we always read about deaths. But why don't they give more information about them? Were they sick already? Did they die from the virus alone or from other diseases/accidents? Etc.

This is what I am criticizing. I am not saying the virus doesn't exist. I am saying there is a lot of bullshit going on....and NO I don't need any "strong politicians" who tell me what to do and who got a chance now to stand out and to be the strong man in order to become the next president. I don't need it. I can think by myself.

At least I can do what media and the rest is not doing: Reading original sources and statistics to make my own conclusion.

Btw. extremely pathetic what Google/YouTube became. Since this year they are deleting videos and channels like hell. The Google Search algorithm also went to shit, same as Adsense and Admob, where people like me are getting banned without any reason. It is time for a change guys.

bartosimpsonio said:

BREAKING: France just shut down.

Rest of Europe will follow suit. Perhaps then USA.

Praying for a vaccine ASAP.

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There's already vaccines however they have to wait on completing trials with a larger group of people. After this pandemic, governments need to work on safely reducing the time it takes for a vaccine to go from development to mass production.

nakamura said:

please don't misunderstand me. I don't say the virus doesn't exist. Obviously, it does. But

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BUT

nakamura said:

But I am highly doubting if the security measures (Lockdown) are accurate

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Maybe you're right, but it can be a lot more complicated than you think. There's a lot of factors involved, but for all we know, the government could be doing lockdowns to slow down the virus in order to prepare / stock up on supplies / help ease the load on hospitals (which could be bordering on being overwhelmed), and more reasons.

nakamura said:

the people who are dying (basically no healthy person under 60 years)

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There's still plenty of younger people (even children) that have succumbed to this disease. Newborn babies don't have the best immune system yet. But even if that weren't the case, it would still seem pretty cold to take it less serious just because it's only effecting "older people".

nakamura said:

I am also wondering what is the deal with the media, YouTube/Google and Facebook? Why would they delete/ban/shadowban everyone who has a different opinion than the politicians. Even if those people are doctors/scientists themselves?!

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Because "opinions" can be dangerous. Maybe there are hundreds of doctors/scientists saying it's not as dangerous as it sounds. But do you not think there are tens of thousands more (and possibly more reputable) who are saying that it IS dangerous? Many would suggest that United States got hit the hardest because of certain politicians continuing to downplay it's seriousness.

nakamura said:

Then, we always read about deaths. But why don't they give more information about them? Were they sick already? Did they die from the virus alone or from other diseases/accidents? Etc.

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I believe there are stats out there that already show all these details. Well one of the dudes on this thread named VSYNC was posting links and misquoting it. I believe it said something along the lines of only 6% of deaths being marked COVID as the only cause of death.

nakamura said:

Were they sick already? Did they die from the virus alone or from other diseases/accidents? Etc.

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Not trying to be mean, but does it really matter? People with pre-existing conditions are dying to COVID. Would you be more worried if you or your child had diabetes or some other condition? My wife (in her 30's) has cancer and has to receive treatment for the rest of her life. It's bad, but there's no set limit on her life. She could survive 10-20 years or more. With COVID, there's a possibility of taking those years away. Years that she would like to be around for to see our children grow up.

Another factor too is, even if you survive it, it can cause damage to your lungs, heart and brain leaving you with life-long health risks.

Anyways, I can agree that the lockdowns can be questionable. Because I know it's complicated with the financial side of things, mental health, and much more. But hopefully they can find a balanced way of doing it or providing some sort of support.

Question:
I've heard the idea that China, in its long term relationship with population control (i.e. limiting the amount of children per household etc), had this virus in a lab. Then it got loose.

Is this considered a conspiracy theory? Or is it an hypothesis by historical analysis?

Be positive.
Test negative.

NT1

NemoTheOne said:

Question:
I've heard the idea that China, in its long term relationship with population control (i.e. limiting the amount of children per household etc), had this virus in a lab. Then it got loose.

Is this considered a conspiracy theory? Or is it an hypothesis by historical analysis?

Be positive.
Test negative.

NT1

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China is actually concerned about a decrease in population, not growth. In 2016 China went from a one child policy to a two child policy.

ExperimentalSEO said:

China is actually concerned about a decrease in population, not growth. In 2016 China went from a one child policy to a two child policy.

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Yup. That is population control, correct?

NemoTheOne said:

Yup. That is population control, correct?

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Creating a virus that could lower the population would be the opposite of what they want.

NemoTheOne said:

Question:
I've heard the idea that China, in its long term relationship with population control (i.e. limiting the amount of children per household etc), had this virus in a lab. Then it got loose.

Is this considered a conspiracy theory? Or is it an hypothesis by historical analysis?

Be positive.
Test negative.

NT1

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If you're referencing to them purposely releasing the virus, then yes, that's the very definition of a conspiracy theory.

Covid, in my opinion, a flu type cold that grips your immune system to breath and if it can with bad immune system will thicken up your mucus that gets hard in your breathing tubes and if ventilators and medication don't move it you're eventually dying of cardiac arrest.

Only my opinion.


There no cure as we can not even kill a cold but you can get flu vaccines to help prevent flu, but they're no guarantees flu or cold won't turn into covid.

Cleaning hands from being outside can prevent germ transaction.

Remember it very easy to get covid if you're in the unfortunate place, catching covid is microdroplets in the air.

Hygiene and mixing with others a lot is definitely a way to catch covid.

But if you got covid no one no if there die or survive

Only those that have chest complications needing hospital are at heigh risk.

Only time then you no if your die if no medication is helping to carm all symptoms down.

If your put in a comma as many are then that the time it touch and go.

VSYNC said:

It's important to be able to have conversations about this without people thinking that people that disagree with them are automatically wrong.

If the goal is finding the truth instead of pushing an opinion then it's important to consider other points of view.

One thing I will say is that people often say "the virus is real", but that's blatently a strawman. No one is saying "there is no such thing as the coronavirus".

It's much easier to disingenuously say "what kind of idiot thinks the virus is imaginary?" than arguing against real point which is that the dangers relating to the virus are being projected to look larger than they actually are, because there's a lot of information to support the idea that COVID is way less dangerous than people are portraying it as.

The CDC's own figures showed that 94% of "COVID deaths" were deaths where the person had other potentially fatal conditions, and the average number of other conditions per person was 2.6. That is a fact - not a conspiracy theory, and if you ignore that you're as dumb as a conspiracy theorist that thinks everything is a conspiracy.

If you know of a statistic in any other country that shows that 94% of people that died of COVID in that country didn't have any other conditions and were perfectly healthy, please feel free to post it here because that would actually be a legitimate counterargument, would be interesting to be able to consider, and would actually provably show with data that the coronavirus is as dangerous as it's being portrayed as.

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The news has said several times no underlining health problems but died from covid.

Uk here we get interviews from tv health sectury and maps there the ones announce death with or without underlining health problems each case.

If you can look them test up your see there plenty of covid deaths without underlineing illness

Is that news real?????

Your asking for proof I am telling you our top docs says none underlying covid deaths exist???????

It also been said that mixed raced are dying at a unusual rate with covid with and without underlying health.

Can you explain this please...

Info from priminster and WHO on British news tv.

Only replying as that only proof many got tv with priminster and WHO DAILY .

redarrow said:

The news has said several times no underlining health problems but died from covid.

Uk here we get interviews from tv health sectury and maps there the ones announce death with or without underlining health problems each case.

If you can look them test up your see there plenty of covid deaths without underlineing illness

Is that news real?????

Your asking for proof I am telling you our top docs says none underlying covid deaths exist???????

It also been said that mixed raced are dying at a unusual rate with covid with and without underlying health.

Can you explain this please...

Info from priminster and WHO on British news tv.

Only replying as that only proof many got tv with priminster and WHO DAILY .

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Might not even be worth trying dude These dudes only believe in conspiracy theories and logic cannot be used to reason with them lol

Consider that this is for *all* covid deaths, including those that were obese, diabetic, with heart disease, etc. If you wanna talk about the longterm effects or protecting old people 70+ years old --- fine. But don't make it about death for the general population.