What the hell is this COVID about?

ChristianTeo20 said:
How can you say someone died from Covid if no one is making an autopsy on the dead bodies? They are not allowed to make autopsies. Why is that?? The numbers are so unreal. Many more people died from the treatment and covid protocols than from the covid itself. Also many have died because all their medication for their chronic illnesses were stopped during covid treatment. It's very easy to count people with chronic illnesses that contacted covid like died from covid. There was a movie which was removed from social media Plandemic i don;'t know if it's real or not of what is saying there but why would you delete it and ban it?

Ok. Then let's ban everything that we do not agree with. Seriously? Some say aliens exist let's ban them. Some think God doesn't exist or others that exist let's ban them too.

This covid crap is a virus that didn't have a standardized treatment or protocol because it was new but you just can't poop on everyone's rights and close everything and isolate people on their homes and so on. This creates a very dangerous future....
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100% agree.

To some point, I could understand politicians/governments to have a certain reaction, because they had no idea what they were dealing with and what this could evolve to, but now, after several months I think politcians/governments should have a way more rational approach on this. Somehow I have the feeling they want to destroy the economy. They want to keep the people in a constant feeling of anxiety. For whatever reason. Maybe because they already spent billions for a vaccine and now they figure out it is not as dangerous as they think it is?
 
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VSYNC said:
Actually I think that's completely accurate. We have much less data at our fingertips than anyone that is working on this daily within governments around the world.


I also do agree with your point here as well - it's similar to the last one.

All I would say is that it's not about saying "the government is wrong" and making absolutely statements or critiques, it's about asking questions.

You should be able to honestly ask the question of "if the data from the government who are studying this says that almost all people that die from it also have other conditions that cause death, what are the implications of that?".

Some people think though that you shouldn't even as that question, that you're a conspiracy theorist, or that you have ulterior motives.

But it's for the good of everyone that we can have open conversations where data being presented is considered in a legitimate way, instead of dismissing it because it doesn't suit their preexisting narrative.

As Nakamura has pointed out a number of times already, emotions are completely useless in this situation - they make people make worse decisions, not better.


Again, I agree. We have to follow their decisions because they will enforce them.

Whether those decisions lead to human misery on a scale we haven't seen since WWII, who knows. It certainly could do, and so we should consider any point of view in a fair and reasonable way, especially a data-backed point of view.


To a degree yes, perfect information is not available from either angle.

But the perspective that COVID might not be as dangerous as its been portrayed as is supported by CDC data and others. The counterargument here has been supported by no such data. That's significant.
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Totally agree, questions need to be asked and everyone needs to atleast try and understand what's going on here.

My only issue with this thread was OP's initial statements of things like "more testing = more sickness" which seems absolutely impossible, I don't know where this info came from. @kvvni can you clarify what you mean by this?

Also the comments above about the Government wanting to destroy the economy and keep everyone in constant anxiety. That just seems stupid to me.
 
nakamura said:
Somehow I have the feeling they want to destroy the economy. They want to keep the people in a constant feeling of anxiety. For whatever reason.
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I have just the same feeling.
 
Jammy0308 said:
My only issue with this thread was OP's initial statements of things like "more testing = more sickness" which seems absolutely impossible, I don't know where this info came from. @kvvni can you clarify what you mean by this?
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Yes, sorry for not clarifying.


In my country protest are on daily basis to be honest (in last weeks).

and suddenly...

They DOUBLED the tests count daily, and it caused the doubled infections count.
And then, our elites went public in TV, and told: WE ARE NOT STRICT, WE HAVE 2 TIMES MORE INFECTIONS, WE NEED TO CLOSE EVERYTHING. (not word for word, of course)


I am not sure how it looks in other countries. But here it looks like a government fears.

The truth is, if we were to test the ENTIRE POPULATION now, there would be a huge number. So what?

So yeah. I believe that in my country they doubled the number of tests to scare more with these "scary" numbers.
 
VSYNC said:
It's always a really good indicator of the character and integrity of someone when they try to call you out like you're making shit up, and then when you provide the proof that your perspective is backed by data from the leading scientists in the world they pretend they don't know what you just showed them.
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Ok, so I think I understand what you're saying -- that you, a person with no medical experience, after misquoting CDC data, have determined that "94% of deaths probably weren't even COVID". So where in your link does it show that claim?

Should I find and provide you links "from the leading scientists in the world" showing the abundance of other complications covid can cause (and result in death)? It sure sounds like you think you know more than the experts considering you're saying "those people would have died anyway" and experts are saying COVID is causing these other complications.

Or what do you mean by that? Like are you using it in an "Everybody dies eventually" type of way? Or is it more of a "they only had years left to live anyways". Or are you actually saying that they had a heart attack / stroke / etc, died, but that it was completely a coincidence that they also had covid? Please enlighten me doc.


VSYNC said:
Let's assume you are a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. I think we've got a really good chance of being right in that assumption.

(This last comment from you is pretty meta too.. once more not having the competence to know that you don't have the competence to discuss my comment about you not having enough competence to know that you don't have enough competence to discuss the COVID situation with any kind of effectiveness and precision... you may in fact be the poster child for Dunning-Kruger)
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Ok -- Let's assume YOU are a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. I think we've got a really good chance of being right in that assumption lol So because I don't have the competence to tell if I have it must mean that I have it? Well maybe I do or don't have it :P Or maybe it's more likely to be you? Or maybe both of us?!?! I mean if you did have it, you probably wouldn't have the self awareness to tell that you didn't have it. I'd think it would make people too blindsided by their own superiority complex and wouldn't even be something they'd consider. So I'll try to keep an open-mind about that and welcome any evidence. But are you? Or are you just so incredibly confident that there's no way you could have it :P


VSYNC said:
Finally, the reason that's relevant is because right now millions of people around the world are having their lives uprooted and completely destroyed by not being able to work and having their businesses fail, which is leading to suicides en masse, drug abuse en masse, mental health problems en masse... globally.

So if you're going to shut the world down, you'd better make damn sure that you're doing it with accurate statistics backing it, because right now more harm could be being created than is being prevented.
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I can understand that. It COULD be causing more harm. But people are having their lives uprooted and completed destroyed by actually getting covid too. How do we decide who gets to live? It's doesn't seem like an easy decision. Do we even have the suicide rates? Will it outweigh covid? We'll have to see. I haven't looked into it too much, so I could be wrong, but so far it sounds like the current data is based on online surveys? Doesn't sound very concrete to me, but I'm just speculating. Down in Canada there's apparently this: "Data tracked by the BC Coroners Service shows that the number of suicide deaths from January to August of 2020 decreased by seven per cent compared to the same time period of 2019."

It's surprising but maybe suicide rates will be down?

VSYNC said:
(If you cared more about minimising global harm than you do about calling people that don't wear masks idiots then you'd probably at least consider the idea that fallout from lockdowns is a really bad thing that should be addressed)
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So how do the masks play in to people's lives being uprooted?
 
samiejg said:
It's surprising but maybe suicide rates will be down?
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:oops:

samiejg said:
Ok, so I think I understand what you're saying -- that you, a person with no medical experience, after misquoting CDC data, have determined that "94% of deaths probably weren't even COVID". So where in your link does it show that claim?

Should I find and provide you links "from the leading scientists in the world" showing the abundance of other complications covid can cause (and result in death)? It sure sounds like you think you know more than the experts considering you're saying "those people would have died anyway" and experts are saying COVID is causing these other complications.

Or what do you mean by that? Like are you using it in an "Everybody dies eventually" type of way? Or is it more of a "they only had years left to live anyways". Or are you actually saying that they had a heart attack / stroke / etc, died, but that it was completely a coincidence that they also had covid? Please enlighten me doc.




Ok -- Let's assume YOU are a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. I think we've got a really good chance of being right in that assumption lol So because I don't have the competence to tell if I have it must mean that I have it? Well maybe I do or don't have it :p Or maybe it's more likely to be you? Or maybe both of us?!?! I mean if you did have it, you probably wouldn't have the self awareness to tell that you didn't have it. I'd think it would make people too blindsided by their own superiority complex and wouldn't even be something they'd consider. So I'll try to keep an open-mind about that and welcome any evidence. But are you? Or are you just so incredibly confident that there's no way you could have it :p




I can understand that. It COULD be causing more harm. But people are having their lives uprooted and completed destroyed by actually getting covid too. How do we decide who gets to live? It's doesn't seem like an easy decision. Do we even have the suicide rates? Will it outweigh covid? We'll have to see. I haven't looked into it too much, so I could be wrong, but so far it sounds like the current data is based on online surveys? Doesn't sound very concrete to me, but I'm just speculating. Down in Canada there's apparently this: "Data tracked by the BC Coroners Service shows that the number of suicide deaths from January to August of 2020 decreased by seven per cent compared to the same time period of 2019."

It's surprising but maybe suicide rates will be down?



So how do the masks play in to people's lives being uprooted?
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I've been giving you too much respect by trying to provide thorough answers and points in good faith with the hopes we could have a valuable discussion together.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you're really not up to the task of having a conversation about this that is anything other than a waste of my time, and also a waste of you're own time, because you are pathologically incapable of absorbing new information or considering the points I'm trying to bring up in an objective way.

I don't want to insult your intelligence any more or anything like that. You're probably smart in your own way, but this is just one of the most pointless conversations I've ever had.. and I mean that literally.

You weren't the right person for me to try to have this conversation with. I'm sure where you're from this is a normal way to try to discuss things, but it's not for me and I just don't want to communicate with you any more.

God bless and good luck in life.
 
samiejg said:
It's surprising but maybe suicide rates will be down?
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https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932a1.htmhttps://www.dw.com/en/suicide-japan/a-55250637https://www.paho.org/en/news/10-9-2020-covid-19-pandemic-exacerbates-suicide-risk-factorshttps://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4095https://www.samaritans.org/about-sa...o-we-know-about-coronavirus-and-suicide-risk/https://www.voanews.com/africa/rise-malawi-suicide-cases-linked-covid-19https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-ar...id-19-pandemic-locked-down-nation-11601581910https://apnews.com/article/virus-ou...archive-army-2be5e2d741c1798fad3f79ca2f2c14ddhttps://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-leads-to-increase-in-homelessness-in-the-us/av-54798441https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-53014211https://www.unwomen.org/en/digital-.../brief-domestic-violence-in-the-world-of-workhttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/world/coronavirus-domestic-violence.htmlhttps://voxeu.org/article/role-prostitution-markets-domestic-violence-during-covid-19https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/202...g-rise-in-domestic-violence-during-pandemic#1https://prostitutionresearch.com/prostitution-the-sex-trade-and-the-covid-19-pandemic/https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...to-sex-work-during-covid-19-pandemic-12066700
 
VSYNC said:
:oops:


I've been giving you too much respect by trying to provide thorough answers and points in good faith with the hopes we could have a valuable discussion together.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you're really not up to the task of having a conversation about this that is anything other than a waste of my time, and also a waste of you're own time, because you are pathologically incapable of absorbing new information or considering the points I'm trying to bring up in an objective way.

I don't want to insult your intelligence any more or anything like that. You're probably smart in your own way, but this is just one of the most pointless conversations I've ever had.. and I mean that literally.

You weren't the right person for me to try to have this conversation with. I'm sure where you're from this is a normal way to try to discuss things, but it's not for me and I just don't want to communicate with you any more.

God bless and good luck in life.
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Ok I gotcha. I guess that's a good way for you to bow out of your illogical thought processes. Oh and then followed by a bunch of links you haven't even read or understand.
 
kvvni said:
So yeah. I believe that in my country they doubled the number of tests to scare more with these "scary" numbers.
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kvvni said:
I have just the same feeling.
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Why would they want to ruin the economy and put fear into people? But why would they do that? I understand that's you feel, but doesn't mean it true. Or maybe it is true, I don't know. Maybe they are trying to scare people. But isn't it possible that they want to scare people because they're worried about the virus getting out of hand? Everyday people don't understand the impact caused by COVID.
 
samiejg said:
Why would they want to ruin the economy and put fear into people? But why would they do that? I understand that's you feel, but doesn't mean it true. Or maybe it is true, I don't know. Maybe they are trying to scare people. But isn't it possible that they want to scare people because they're worried about the virus getting out of hand? Everyday people don't understand the impact caused by COVID.
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The mere fact of contagion does not change much. Looking at DIRECT mortality, it's not all worth it. But everyone has an opinion and I respect it :)
 
Shit is about to hit the fan.
Keep yourself guys.
I already have plenty friends who got COVID:(.
 
So, I read an article on Twitter about global influenza cases are down 98%. Obviously, many believe the reason is everything is now being diagnosed as COVID, BUT there are many that buy into the fear porn that believe flu is down BECAUSE EVERYONE IS WEARING MASKS! Now, try to get around this LOGIC.

1) If masks are basically eliminating the flu, why are there massive outbreaks of COVID?
2) If masks are so great why are they locking people down?
3) All the data I posted and research going back decades that shows masks don't prevent the spread of viruses (amongst medical professionals) were based on the spread of (wait for it) INFLUENZA.

It doesn't matter how many peer reviewed studies you show people. It doesn't matter how many doctors and scientists state it. People obsessed with the fear porn will NOT listen to the fact cloth masks, ear loop surgical masks and the like do not prevent the spread of airborne viruses. Not only that, people are getting strep infections and other bacterial and fungal infections from rebreathing in their moist/wet masks.
 
Hubba said:
So, I read an article on Twitter about global influenza cases are down 98%. Obviously, many believe the reason is everything is now being diagnosed as COVID, BUT there are many that buy into the fear porn that believe flu is down BECAUSE EVERYONE IS WEARING MASKS! Now, try to get around this LOGIC.

1) If masks are basically eliminating the flu, why are there massive outbreaks of COVID?
2) If masks are so great why are they locking people down?
3) All the data I posted and research going back decades that shows masks don't prevent the spread of viruses (amongst medical professionals) were based on the spread of (wait for it) INFLUENZA.

It doesn't matter how many peer reviewed studies you show people. It doesn't matter how many doctors and scientists state it. People obsessed with the fear porn will NOT listen to the fact cloth masks, ear loop surgical masks and the like do not prevent the spread of airborne viruses. Not only that, people are getting strep infections and other bacterial and fungal infections from rebreathing in their moist/wet masks.
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Share the article with us. 98%? Daaaaamn!
 
Masks are lowering the spread, the problem is too many people are ignoring it and going to places that they shouldn't be during the pandemic.
 
I got the flu the other day. I was very afraid that it could be covid :D
 
What I don't understand is why all the developed countries forbid the use of hydroxychloroquine whereas all the tiers 3 countries use it with success. In Africa for instance they don't get much cases thanks to this med.

In richer countries politicians and some doctors say it's a dangerous med whereas we all know they 're lying, we know it's safe thanks to decades of use.

So why?

The only conclusion I get to is they don't want us to heal, they want to make us live under fear so they can restrict our liberties and sell us their expensive (and dangerous) vaccine + shity inefficient remdesivir.

FY bill gates and all your slaves leading countries to disaster
 
Africa has a much younger population,many of the countries have well over 50% of the population under 30. They also aren't doing any testing.
 
nakamura said:
Somehow I have the feeling they want to destroy the economy. They want to keep the people in a constant feeling of anxiety. For whatever reason. Maybe because they already spent billions for a vaccine and now they figure out it is not as dangerous as they think it is?
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No.

The crazy conspiracy movement wants YOU thinking that crazy shit.

Nobody wants to destroy the economy. That doesn't make any sense.

The virus is real. Without a vaccine the only solution is to isolate. There is nothing else that can be done.

Spend just one day at a hospital watching what HCW's are going through and you'll stop that conspiracy crap cold turkey.

Insane conspiracy bullshit artists, which used to be confined to underground forums, are now running large countries and they did this to your mind and to millions of people's minds.

There is nobody trying to destroy anything. There is a real virus that we cannot control, which requires isolation and contact tracing.

Everyone should stop the conspiracy bullshit already. It's enough.
 
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