What is up with JR VIP?

i agree

everymonth there seems to be a complaint thread of some sorts. and every month it seems like there's a new rule that's supposed to make bhw more and more "safe".

There will always be dicks out there to rip you off...and if you let your need to make money override your common sense and judgment, then you will get ripped off.

I don't care how many 'thanks' or 'posts' a person has....or if a person has 'jr. vip' 'exec vip' 'what ever vip' by his/her name....every time you open your wallet you are taking a risk. I've purchased services/things from people because i've 'gotten to know them' by reading their posts, their responses to posts, and their responses to my pms'...not because they have 400 posts/2000 thanx, and are whatever vip.

As for safety on the board, this is a blackhat board...there is no safety. That's why you shouldn't post your WH website links, name, aff. checks, aff userids on this board. I bet you couldn't know who i was on DP, WF, NP, or DNF.

Jr. Vip comes with privileges...but responsibilities as well. You are responsible for following the rules and for covering your own ass. Somebody from BHW scammed you? Report it to the mods, learn from the experience then move on. if enough members complain, then the mods/admin/owner will look into and resolve the matter....maybe make changes to the board

I've learned a hell of a lot from the folks here at BHW, and I am not going to lump all of the Jr. Vip members as being scammers because of a few a$$holes and morons.

justthinking said:

I think this entire thread is completely stupid. Isn't there always a rotten apple in every bunch? From my experience, there is always at least one.

Who is it we are upset at this week? Who will it be next week? It may be a JR VIP, a Exec VIP, or a newbie. Who knows? Nobody. We will never know who it is before hand.

It seems members here believe the higher ups have some kind of godly existence. They don't. Everybody here is just a normal human being with (maybe) some type of expertise. Few actually have any. Most wouldn't know their ass from a hole in the ground if they had both hands on it.

Just my thoughts.

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final point,

i think instead of locking up jr vip or making it harder to get in, i think we should just boot the creeps out... like if your name appears in the shit list, you have 48-72 hours to clear it up or else your ass is out of here.

I think that usernames should be purged if they haven't made any contributions in a couple months....like, if a person signs up...makes 50 some shitty posts and then doesn't log back in or post for 1, 2, or 3 months ....

mark said:

yeah jr.vip should go back as before though but a little more req 3 months , but now 400 quality posts and 200 thanks or 300 thanks.. Forget the donor thing i am sure bhw is making alot of cash already.

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Not gonna happen. If we opened the gates to free loaders again, I'd set the minimum time requirement on the board to 1 full year.

And how the hell do you know how much BHW is making? How much the owner makes is none of your gd business.

PhiltheBear said:

The donation thing is irrelevant...

It's a bit like buying a peerage in the UK or Obama's place now he's been promoted - not supposed to happen but it does.

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Your post was full of good input. I only disagree with this part, for this reason...

Yes, charging money for a position of authority is wrong. It's wrong if it's about a government position (as in your examples), and it'd be wrong if the admins were charging for something like Moderator powers.

But that's not the case here... VIPs don't have any extra "power".

And as this is a marketing forum, proving that you can bring in a little money is totally acceptable... that wouldn't hold true if this forum didn't have such a strong Making-Money theme. But it does, so it is.

And again, I absolutely agree that the ability to donate does NOT prove that a member is great or cool.

However, I contend that the inability or unwillingness to donate makes a member either a bad marketer or a bad team player. Probably both, since once someone learns to work well with people, greater income almost inevitably follows.

Non-donors (and newbies like me) should still be able to read the general forums, ask questions and get some help... so that they can learn how to make more money. I want them to get to the point where they can make $97 (and a whole lot more) fast.

But Nevarc in OP mentioned that there's a problem in VIP, and a lot of people have agreed with him. A "Donate or Demote" decree would do a lot to:

• wash out people who shouldn't be there, and
• have the remaining VIPs take their status more seriously (i.e. be more proud of it).

Almost all the VIPs worth a shit have already donated, so they're fine. There are a few more who could chip in the $97 easily in a couple clicks, unless they're lying about how much they make. But that's fine, D-or-D would quickly point out those poseurs. Money talks, BS walks.

Many of the other ideas on this thread are good (regarding voting to let VIPs in, or voting to kick them out), I just think that would be a lot more complicated for the admins to setup and maintain, and lead to a lot of fights.

Which may still be necessary... but give D-or-D a shot first, to see how well it cleans up the VIP area.

Even if voting people out is still necessary, there should be a lot fewer "kick this guy out" threads to deal with if D-or-D handles 80% of the problem in the first place.

P.S. If implemented, there will be many non-Donors posting big sob stories or reasons why they should be exempted. Almost without exception, these people will be covering for the fact that they haven't taken any action and don't make any money. Doesn't necessarily make them bad people, but they shouldn't be VIP material.

P.P.S. To the poor people... if you're really so great, some more wealthy member will pay your $97, just to keep you in the VIP area. If you can't find that person and can't pay it yourself... time to get back to the fundamentals.

P.P.P.S. Sorry that I didn't have time to write a shorter message.

I liked the suggestion on the donor area. It would award those who actually break out the CC and spend some cash to help keep this place running.

As far as the rest of this I won't get into it. You are always going to have people who attempt to take advantage of others no matter what rules are in place. The fact that it does not happen more with a forum such as this is a testament to the job the mods do around here.

With that being said I was recently made an JR VIP( I could have made it along time ago, but I read a lot more than I post), because I accomplished the requirements and I was curious about what was behind the door. It's not really all that impressive.

The bottom line that everyone probably needs to realize is we are all competitors to one another and some times people are going to try and take advantage of someone. Even with this fact I'm really surprised at the amount of knowledge which stems from this forum. Its a lot better than any other make money type forums I've been involved in and I've been around a while.

tonlilaz said:

i agree

everymonth there seems to be a complaint thread of some sorts. and every month it seems like there's a new rule that's supposed to make bhw more and more "safe".

There will always be dicks out there to rip you off...and if you let your need to make money override your common sense and judgment, then you will get ripped off.

I don't care how many 'thanks' or 'posts' a person has....or if a person has 'jr. vip' 'exec vip' 'what ever vip' by his/her name....every time you open your wallet you are taking a risk. I've purchased services/things from people because i've 'gotten to know them' by reading their posts, their responses to posts, and their responses to my pms'...not because they have 400 posts/2000 thanx, and are whatever vip.

As for safety on the board, this is a blackhat board...there is no safety. That's why you shouldn't post your WH website links, name, aff. checks, aff userids on this board. I bet you couldn't know who i was on DP, WF, NP, or DNF.

Jr. Vip comes with privileges...but responsibilities as well. You are responsible for following the rules and for covering your own ass. Somebody from BHW scammed you? Report it to the mods, learn from the experience then move on. if enough members complain, then the mods/admin/owner will look into and resolve the matter....maybe make changes to the board

I've learned a hell of a lot from the folks here at BHW, and I am not going to lump all of the Jr. Vip members as being scammers because of a few a$$holes and morons.

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Well spoken, sir.

There is no perfect solution to the problem, there will always be scumbags & scammers in almost every section of the forum. There's been a few in Executive VIP, and a few on the staff. But they eventually get dealt with and things improve and continue on.

how do you know your talking to a sir ?? rofl

Essential Clix said:

Well spoken, sir.

There is no perfect solution to the problem, there will always be scumbags & scammers in almost every section of the forum. There's been a few in Executive VIP, and a few on the staff. But they eventually get dealt with and things improve and continue on.

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I Think That This Is The Down Side Of Our Forum Becoming Popular, The Socially Mal-Adjusted Come Out Of The Woodwork .

It's Cool To Feel Happy That You're Highly Ranked On A Forum, But It's Not Cool To Flex Your Inter-Nuts Because You're Jr.VIP.

On The Plus Side Though The Crappy Jr.VIP's End Up Limiting Themselves And Will Never Reach The Rank Of Executive VIP.

So I Think Regardless, It Works Out.

Oh And My Answer To This Issue Is...Ban 'em

If A Jr.Vip (Or Even A Regular Member)Is Acting Like A Internet Jack-@ss Then Contact A Mod And Report Them.

I Know....I'm Brilliant...Tip Me Later

Nevarc said:

It's becoming more and more obvious that JR VIP is full of douche bags. Thought i'd throw it out there that just because a perk is given, doesnt mean it cant be taken away.

Executive VIP's and Mods have been drummed out for being losers, and the same should happen in JR VIP.

Maybe there should be a senior VIP added as an additional level for proven members not yet invited up to VIP, I don't know.

It just seems that way too many idiots are abusing that forum and maybe it's time to start knocking tons of people back down.

Maybe a vote system like for executive VIP, or a group of more trusted JR VIPS and Execs that would be willing to review posts from potential members to see if they are worthy of moving up.

Any JR VIP should be able to start a poll thread voting to kick out a member. If it gets the votes, done deal.

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When I first joined BHW I was impressed at what people were willing to share and at the level of integrity of many of the people here, and because of this, BHW has become fairly successful.

Any kind of success attracts many posers and scammers. And these kinds of people, when exposed to a good BH idea will run it into the ground very quickly. Ruining it for the rest of us.

Ultimately, the fault - and solution, rests in the hands of those who run this forum.
Running a business (successfully) doesn't require a democracy. Just someone willing to take the lead and not worry how they are perceived if they have to use the iron fist.
Its nice to let things evolve... but here we are.

There are other forums who have posts full of glee when they rip BHW. So, among the BH posers who have joined us, are people out to genuinely hurt us and BHW's rep.

One idea is to do an invite only (payment also required) into JVip. I 'sponsor' somebody and have a certain responsibility to make sure they, at least in the beginning, are not total F-UP's. I really don't have the time to vet all the people who may be nominated to JVip by popular vote.

The requirement for posting might be changed also. Too many people have way too much time on their hands and just post and post and...

Finally... Those who run the forum can't be held responsible for those people who do become shitheads. Nobody has a crystal ball into this.
Being a BHatter doesn't mean you can't have some integrity, and if that's what you especially want for JRVips, and for it to mean something, then demand it.

Your in charge. Let the crybabies cry.

I have to say, I used to spend alot of time here but as of late, I have just came in browse a few threads and go about my business. It seems BHW has gotten pretty bad over the past few months and I am sure that the mods and above are doing their best to clean things up.

It will take some time. Like Litenup stated, BHW has become a success and has even grown quite big since I joined, but again, with the success comes alot of "unwanted" attention and new comers. As for JrVIP, thats just a label, If it makes you feel special than so be it. But most "REAL" members on this forum knows who is here for the long run and who helps out.

I just keep seeing more and more whining, help me make money, do this, do that [req] threads that I dont even bother staying long when I visit.

The best thing to do is let the mods do their thing, It wont happen over night, But if anyone wants to clean house they are on top of the list. The less BS hanging around the board, the less they have to babysit, the more they can enjoy the board themselves like they once did.

Thats my honest opinion. I feel if I lose my JrVIP, then so be it, The label doesnt define who I am or what I have done. I just hate being in the same boat that others are taking down with non sense.

I think it's sad that a few scammers have such power over this board.

xplicit said:

I have to say, I used to spend alot of time here but as of late, I have just came in browse a few threads and go about my business. It seems BHW has gotten pretty bad over the past few months and I am sure that the mods and above are doing their best to clean things up.

It will take some time. Like Litenup stated, BHW has become a success and has even grown quite big since I joined, but again, with the success comes alot of "unwanted" attention and new comers. As for JrVIP, thats just a label, If it makes you feel special than so be it. But most "REAL" members on this forum knows who is here for the long run and who helps out.

I just keep seeing more and more whining, help me make money, do this, do that [req] threads that I dont even bother staying long when I visit.

The best thing to do is let the mods do their thing, It wont happen over night, But if anyone wants to clean house they are on top of the list. The less BS hanging around the board, the less they have to babysit, the more they can enjoy the board themselves like they once did.

Thats my honest opinion. I feel if I lose my JrVIP, then so be it, The label doesnt define who I am or what I have done. I just hate being in the same boat that others are taking down with non sense.

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I think the $97, price tag, is to make money and BHW isn't really caring if it turns to trash.

They need to make it harder to become a Jr VIP, and forget about the money for a second. Right now they are just putting a price tag on JR VIP, maybe they should care less about money and more on the shit that Jr VIP's are doing, making BHW look like shit.

Don't let BHW turn into the shithole DP is.

No offense to anyone, just saying, not hard to become a Jr at all, no screening process, just be here for 2 months, spam a whole lot of rubbish, and cough up $97.

i didnt know there was a problem. Most of what i see in BHW is that if someone is out of line spamming or doing some shit they shouldnt be, that they get slapped hard by some members in here. It seems harsh but hey it shows that maybe you cant get away with too much in here.

However it seems that shit is happening, MODS cant be on top of things 247 so members need to protect what they value and help out the mods. Reward and acknowledge good behavior and punish the infidels.

Sheen91 said:

I think the $97, price tag, is to make money and BHW isn't really caring if it turns to trash.

They need to make it harder to become a Jr VIP, and forget about the money for a second. Right now they are just putting a price tag on JR VIP, maybe they should care less about money and more on the shit that Jr VIP's are doing, making BHW look like shit.

Don't let BHW turn into the shithole DP is.

No offense to anyone, just saying, not hard to become a Jr at all, no screening process, just be here for 2 months, spam a whole lot of rubbish, and cough up $97.

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LOL. No offense to anyone? We (BHW) don't care if BHW turns to trash? Yeah, whatever, go fuck yourself. No offense.

Jr. VIP isn't suppose to be the be all to end all hidden secretive forums. I think you guys are expecting too much out of it. It's just a place to discuss things behind closed doors and (hopefully) out of the view of account managers; and perhaps as a stepping stone to Executive VIP. The perfect forum/community doesn't exist, there's no such thing as utopia. But we spend a good deal of time trying to make it as close to one as possible.

We could increase the time required to be on the forums to say 6 months to a year, but really what good would that do? No one would stick around long enough to want to make it in. Or perhaps we could increase the donation to $500. Would that work better for you?

If you have any ideas that haven't already been discussed & rehashed, I'm all ears.

PS - Why haven't you donated & upgraded to Jr. VIP yet?

Essential Clix said:

LOL. No offense to anyone? We don't care if BHW turns to trash? Yeah, whatever, go fuck yourself. No offense.

PS - Why haven't you donated & been upgraded to Jr. VIP yet?

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Now this is what I love about BHW..

mack said:

Yes, charging money for a position of authority is wrong. <snip>

But that's not the case here... VIPs don't have any extra "power".

<snip>
And again, I absolutely agree that the ability to donate does NOT prove that a member is great or cool.

<snip>
But Nevarc in OP mentioned that there's a problem in VIP, and a lot of people have agreed with him.

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I think your argument is reasonably sound. But the problem still remains. If anyone can 'buy' Jr VIP status then it doesn't prove a thing about them other than that they have $97 to spare. It doesn't mean that they are a great marketeer. It might mean they are a total noob who thinks that spending $97 will fast-track them into some sort of hallowed area where all the answers will be handed to them on a plate (and, believe me, it just ain't so!)

I've been away from the board for a month or so due to personal stuff and I have to say that there is a large difference between then and now - but it's more about the crap in the main board than anything in Jr VIP. I got Jr VIP status after posting on here over a reasonable period. I didn't seek it out. I didn't make 100 posts a day. I tried to contribute to the board by way of useful input / discussion and at some point the board 'upgraded' me to Jr VIP. If that kind of 'qualification' is removed in favour of payment then I think the whole concept of BHW will be devalued - not just the concept of Jr VIP.

This issue comes up again and again. The protagonists seem to be those who think that everything - BHW, Jr Vip, Exec, whatever - should always be limited to a few 'inner circle' or those who can't attain the next rung on the ladder (I hesitate to use the term 'jealousy' but it's that kind of thing). And although some people think there are problems in any area it isn't always so - because there are others who don't. I've seen people raise issues about Cookie Stuffing, Downloads, Jr VIP, whatever, over the time I've been here and, at the end of the day, the guys who run this place seem to sort it out to everyone's satisfaction.

Personally, I'm happy to visit, contribute, learn. I don't really care about this whole status thing. Diamond Dave, Essential Clix, and others too numerous to mention have created a great forum and, frankly, I'd prefer to leave it to them to carry on moulding it in the way they want it - because it works and works well.

PhiltheBear said:

If anyone can 'buy' Jr VIP status then it doesn't prove a thing about them other than that they have $97 to spare. It doesn't mean that they are a great marketeer. It might mean they are a total noob who thinks that spending $97 will fast-track them into some sort of hallowed area where all the answers will be handed to them on a plate (and, believe me, it just ain't so!)

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Thats not how this noob saw it and i may be speaking for others as well..

The download section here alone is worth the $97. I am a noob I dont have much to contribute and have taken more from the forum than I have given. So $97 was the least I could cough up for the few extra's.

Knowing what I know now I would pay even more.

I think that the donation is a good idea. To a certain extent it is used to judge if a person qualifies for Jr.vip. Although $97 may not be much it'll help to filter alot of the crap from JR.Vip. And that the purpose of it.

Many more people would be more willing to posting 100~200 posts in order to get into Jr.Vip just to find out what is going on in there. But to be honest its not about what's in the Jr.Vip area. Its about the process of climbing to Jr.Vip. So those people are actually losing out the most.

Remember Jr.Vip is not the end all be all it is just another step towards Exec.Vip. Hence the "Jr". You get what I mean?

So I don't see the point of actually arguing about this. It'll just hurt ourselves. I am much more interested in building relationships than burning bridges.

P.S Before you flame me for not making any donations, I am still waiting for my CJ payment. And i'll donate when it gets into my account. Damn, they take so long to process my commission.

Reading some post I detect three problems:

1.- Noobs don't read and don't even use the search function. They only start forum threads asking questions, like what is EPN?, or if you cookie stuffed is there a cookie involved?. If you read this type of post Noobs are asking and answering Noobs questions, with little paticipation of JrVips, Execs or God himself. This treads are slowly dying alone. Open one section and you'll find 6 crap post for 1 good one worth reading. This is normal, if you're expecting all the post to be a Black Hat bible it won't happen. You can grab little bits of good info between lines.

2.- Scammers and spammers are in all places and the shit list and mods could take care of them. If you don't want to hear whinning people, well just stay apart from the shit list (don't scamm and don't get f**ed, or both).

3.- Closing the forum, invite only, donation only. Well if you've a black heart, donation won't be a problem, Hmm?. Common boys, this forum is the only place we can discuss certain topics as partners. Wolf can only talk to other wolfs. This's a wolf party, and yes we all've teeths (ask Uptownbulker to show he's). Closing the forum is like fucking your own sister, you're killing evolution, freezing new ideas, and knowing only one pair of tits in your life. The web, networks and black hat are changing everyday. I read some post with people demanding to close the forum gates because one tiny strategy they learn yesterday and use today is going to get exposed. It's life, things that works 1 year ago are not working today. Everything is getting exposed on the web today including Obama's brother and Palin's son.

Calm down, I just think the time you have to wait to become a Jr VIP, has to be at least 6 months. And the post count should be 200, and mods should check out their posts.

However it is true that it isn't that special to be a JR VIP, that's why you have exec VIP's, I understand that, sorry.

I was a bit angry at the time.

Sorry 'bout that.

Essential Clix said:

LOL. No offense to anyone? We (BHW) don't care if BHW turns to trash? Yeah, whatever, go fuck yourself. No offense.

Jr. VIP isn't suppose to be the be all to end all hidden secretive forums. I think you guys are expecting too much out of it. It's just a place to discuss things behind closed doors and (hopefully) out of the view of account managers; and perhaps as a stepping stone to Executive VIP. The perfect forum/community doesn't exist, there's no such thing as utopia. But we spend a good deal of time trying to make it as close to one as possible.

We could increase the time required to be on the forums to say 6 months to a year, but really what good would that do? No one would stick around long enough to want to make it in. Or perhaps we could increase the donation to $500. Would that work better for you?

If you have any ideas that haven't already been discussed & rehashed, I'm all ears.

PS - Why haven't you donated & upgraded to Jr. VIP yet?

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