What is truly white hat?

Everyone talks about getting "quality" links to their sites but what exactly does that mean?

I mean specifically for an ecomerce site in a high competition field what can you do that G will see as white hat link building?

I'm looking for a list of specifics, build quality links doesn't mean anything. It's pretty much impossible to get a link from an authority site(for one because they don't really exist in this field) and I'm left with web 2.0 blog style links, profile links, social bookmarks and forum posts... but ALL of that stuff is blackhat or at the very best case scenario grey hat.

Can anyone post a list of specific link types and ideas that they consider 100% white hat?

The reason I'm asking is that I am about to launch SEO services and while this sounds like a question a person in this field shouldn't be asking, I'm after some second opinions. Call me a pessimist but the moment anyone starts doing offpage SEO/link building, in my eyes it's against google guidelines as you're not actually supposed to build any links to your sites but rather "motivate" people to build "natural" links to you instead. In that sense the moment anyone builds any link to their site themselves it's grey/black hat...

According to Google all link building is black hat... You simply cannot rely upon their Guidelines. The only way you're going to rank your eCommerce site is with grey/black hat.

The only white hat thing you could really do is guest posting... This of course is extremely costly, difficult, and you can't count on people to keep up your links.

the_demon said:

According to Google all link building is black hat... You simply cannot rely upon their Guidelines. The only way you're going to rank your eCommerce site is with grey/black hat.

The only white hat thing you could really do is guest posting... This of course is extremely costly, difficult, and you can't count on people to keep up your links.

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That is exactly my opinion on the matter so the question is all of these websites posing as white hat - what is it they charge their clients for exactly? On page SEO takes at most a week to get done right so how can people justify their $1000-$2500 monthly fees and still swear to the grave that they only do white hat?

Why are you about to "launch a SEO service" when you haven't got a clue what you're doing?

In the past, whitehat SEO would be having a site that was easy to navigate via internal links, using the right keywords, having your site load faster, etc. Then contact other website owners, see if they want to exchange links.
Result, rank nowhere.

Blackhat SEO, everything that entails great onsite SEO, plus working harder than whitehat SEO's by getting backlinks, investing in services, outsourcing, sleepless nights.
Result, a much deserved first place ranking.

Today, I don't have a bloody clue what whitehat/blackhat does for your sites, lol. Either way, G is giving you the slap.

We've released Panda, but we're not going to tell you what we want from site owners. G seems more focused on getting as much info about you as possible, name, address, machine ID. Making site owners create G+ accounts, then force us to try and get our sites plused so our sites appear on personalised web searches. But in all honesty, G+ sucks, and so do the new pandalised results.

As far as Whitehat SEO is concerned, I reckon it's safe to say don't bother with it. Just sit back, coz there's a lot of talented guys on BHW who will slap the Panda like the $2 hooker she is, they'll release a BST, and you can then purchase it and replicate what they're doing.

Then write an eBook about it and sell it on WF.

meathead1234 said:

Why are you about to "launch a SEO service" when you haven't got a clue what you're doing?

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I think that's going a bit overboard I'd say I have a pretty decent clue about what I'm doing especially in the case of on-site. But on-site won't get you into the top 10.

I've successfully ranked 4+ sites in diverse fields onto the front page and into #1 rankings. But I've done it the black/grey hat way for the link building with senuke etc and I want to make sure that if people are paying me to do their sites they won't be getting nasty messages in their webmaster tools accounts.

This post is more me looking for any potential dangers or link types to stay away from in this regard. In effect to whiten up my methods.

For example blogroll links make no sense for an e-commerce site so they're asking to get a nasty message.

Malofie said:

Then write an eBook about it and sell it on WF.

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ROFL I love that... WF is the nastiest cesspool of suckers and the scumbags that repeatedly ream them up the you know what...

It took me 3 days in the VIP members forum back when I started and I googled warrior forum alternative... THEN my eyes opened.

Im trying to step up my whitehat game an was just looking for more info into this exact thing. You can add press releases, social media interaction, onsite blog, info product creation / distribution, video promotions.

They way I see it, if you are "adding value to the internets" you are doing whitehat stuff. It really is more in the realm of promoting the company/brand/whatever then dirty link building. Make up some reason why they need a press release, make a vid about it post it on tube, create a doc an spread it, tell/pay some bloggers, bookmark all that and social zap it.

If anyone has anything to add Id love to hear it, meanwhile Im going to keep diggin!

meathead1234 said:

Why are you about to "launch a SEO service" when you haven't got a clue what you're doing?

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Alot of people click thanks, and lick up to senior members on here, but meathead is making a damn big point you'd want to listen too.

Your not an expert in SEO, and shouldn't try to be a professional at SEO if your asking questions like this... your setting yourself up for disaster! Myself and meathead are telling you this in a kind way...

Regarding what your saying about links... use comment links and anything spammy on tier 2-3 never at your money site.

Steer clear of anything pharma, porn etc related if your running a weight loss site for example because you've just become one big blip on the radar.

Stick to the usual web 2.0's , and diversify. Alot of these High PR networks are being raided right now also by google, so don't have all your links in one basket... spread yourself. And make sure your anchors are very different.

That's summarising things lightly, study what's working on here closely and avoid getting links from any "frowned upon niches" they will only hurt your sites.

white hat = creating your website and then folding your arms and twiddling your thumbs and hoping that your content is so compelling that people are moved to link to it...

this = bullshit!

wtf...the second you pay a "white hat" seo company to create links for you is black hat...

the is a philosophical question that we could argue forever...

White Hat is helping old ladies across the street. Black Hat is helping old ladies across the street and monetizing it (aggressively) and then scaling up in joint ventures that leave everyone involved with fatter purses! Hope this helps. :bubblegum:bubblegum:bubblegum

the_demon said:

According to Google all link building is black hat... You simply cannot rely upon their Guidelines. The only way you're going to rank your eCommerce site is with grey/black hat.

The only white hat thing you could really do is guest posting... This of course is extremely costly, difficult, and you can't count on people to keep up your links.

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This is simply not true. Google doesn't want you building links in an attempt to influence the SERP rankings of your page.

Normal, even aggressive promotion of your website online is completely acceptable as well as is building links for traffic.

For instance, if you own a business, and list yourself on Linkedin, you will naturally have a link from Linkedin. This is a normal (even expected) link to see in a business link matrix, and will never count against you.

Anywhere you go on the internet and participate in your niche, you can leave links that promote your business, and these links will not harm you.

Any thing you do that looks normal for a website to do is perfectly acceptable. If you put a video on you-tube and link to your site, it will be good, not bad.

The key is for it to look normal.

I think google has just made it all a game just forget the rules

White & black is the same. White is something that happens naturally for sites like apple which have brand names.

What is truly white hat?

Making a site with high quality articles, reclining in your chair, and saying, "And now we play the waiting game, heh heh heh".

(And then, months later, wondering why your site has received 0 visits).

skyblade said:

... the question is all of these websites posing as white hat - ... how can people justify their $1000-$2500 monthly fees and still swear to the grave that they only do white hat?

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Because they are effectively leveraging the given semantics to remove themselves from an inherently ambiguous - and therefore unnecessary - moral conundrum, which you appear to be in. I'll explain:

As you've noted yourself, aside from the 2 or 3 things Google is absolutely clear about, everything else is game-on. Google states in no uncertain terms that their decision making as regards what they do and do not accept is capricious; that they "may react negatively" to essentially whatever they want to, at any given time. It therefore follows that you should act (within reason) within Google's ambiguity.

Your "white hat" competitors find a way to explain this to their clients in language that rings true to the client. *POOF* they're 'white hats'.

Short version: There is no hat. /Matrix

"Be water, my friend" (Bruce Lee)

I think anything thats seems unnatural in terms on how a acual human not a program would search/use the internet

Make quality content that engage to your visitors, and promote it in social media, then pray so hard that some would actually build to your site...after 10yrs.

I guess 'truly' whitehat (i'm talking only about the offsite aspect) would mean that people link to your content independently due to its virtue, rather than attempting to get links through payment/automated tools, etc.

These are the some White Hat SEO Techniques:
1. Quality Content
2. Use Structural (Semantic)
3. Titles and Meta Data
4. Keyword Research and Effective Keyword Use
5. Quality Inbound Links