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The whole lance armstrong debacle

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by Roparadise, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. Roparadise

    Roparadise BANNED BANNED

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    I really do not understand why several organisations which have no power over the results of the Tour de France, are "stripping" him of his titles. What makes it even worse is that the media is considered him as already being striped of the titles. But the people behind the Tour de France have not stripped him of his titles,therefore he is still a 7 time winner. I really do not understand why the Tour de France organizers haven't made a media release blasting both the UCI and the USADA for interfering with their organisation. If I was running a organisation and a NGO like the USADA and the UCI said some of the winners of my events were no longer winners,although I hadn't made a decision I would go on a media attack against them.

    And another thing is that the UCI is saying he is banned for life from cycling,which isn't true. He is just banned from their affiliated events,anyone or any group can create their own cycling organisations and racing events and they do not have to follow the rulings of the USADA or the UCI.
     
  2. Duffers5000

    Duffers5000 Elite Member

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    For a Money Making Black Hat forum there has probably been enough threads on Lance Armstrong already. Lance Armstrong is a disgraced former cycling champion. The evidence usada has on him which includes personal testimony from 15(thats fifteen) team mates is only slowly being leaked..The real truth about his professional doping will come out over the next few months and it will amaze people with how organised it was.

    Armstrong was a cycling powerhouse and cycling made a lot of money off him. Hence eyes were turned and people told to be quiet. For the record several team members and physio staff etc have blown the whistle on him in the last 15 years but enquiries were never followed up. This was catalogued from the Original 2000 biography LA Confidential.

    I am a huge cycling fan and like most people would love to believe he was this superman but as a realist I have to face the facts that Pre-Cancer Armstrong raced 3 Tours and never finished in the top 30 and whilst he was a strong rider he was incapable of climbing and fell apart in the mountains. After cancer 7 straight tour wins and goes up mountains like a goat.
     
  3. Roparadise

    Roparadise BANNED BANNED

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    This thread isn't about alleged drug use or how common drug use is in sports and other industries. But how the media is wrongfully reporting him as already losing his titles. But the organisation which has the say has not made a decision on whether to strip him or not. This is the lounge(which means anything can go) section and there are many non directly IM related threads.
     
  4. Duffers5000

    Duffers5000 Elite Member

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    The media is correctly reporting he has lost his titles. He was stripped by the UCI this morning
     
  5. Roparadise

    Roparadise BANNED BANNED

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    The UCI does not have the authority to strip him of his titles, only the Tour De France organizers have the authority to strip him of his Tour De France titles.
     
  6. Duffers5000

    Duffers5000 Elite Member

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    The UCI is the International cycling union and oversee all professional events and offociate the Tour. once they throw you out where else are you supposed to go ?
     
  7. Roparadise

    Roparadise BANNED BANNED

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    They may officiate it but they do not own the Amaury Sport Organisation(a subsidary of Editions Philippe Amaury),which runs and has the rights to the Tour De France. And there is no international law making them the only international cycling group. Anyone can create their own and let in who ever they want to.
     
  8. Duffers5000

    Duffers5000 Elite Member

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    Strictly speaking you are correct but in reality the ASO are only event organisers who put on a bike race. Take away the creditation of the sports professional governing body and nobody would turn up.
     
  9. Roparadise

    Roparadise BANNED BANNED

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    The NFL is a privately owned group and millions of people turn up to see the events and many people more watch the events on tv. And there is no governing body for all levels of american football in the United States.. So the Tour De France doesn't need to be part of a "Professional" governing body. They just need to have good marketing.
     
  10. SEOWhizz

    SEOWhizz Power Member

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    You are 100% wrong.
     
  11. Roparadise

    Roparadise BANNED BANNED

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    Its from a press release not the actual legal agreement showing that they have given the authority of the results to the UCI (if there was really one).
     
  12. Duffers5000

    Duffers5000 Elite Member

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    The ASO employs 70 people full time. Without the UCI there would be no event. All the sponsors want to be involved with a Professionally accredited sport. All the teams are committed to a full year schedule they cant just pull out of other events for one race. Also Im sure if the tour was a breakaway event the UCI would place restrictions on their members taking part. Which wont happen as the ASO is a commercial body that promotes cycling, Tennis and Sailing events so will want to stay within the laws of the sports governing body.
     
  13. Roparadise

    Roparadise BANNED BANNED

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    Why such a can't-do attitude? The tour de france is such a huge race,with a long tradition that people will watch no matter if its a stand alone or affiliated with a group such as the UCI.

    Sponsors don't care if something is accredited or not,they care about marketing and sales.
     
  14. Duffers5000

    Duffers5000 Elite Member

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    The only way forward for cycling is ultra clean and ultra professional. With sponsors already bailing a breakaway tour would have no chance. Besides that wont happen. The Tour is the pinnacle of the sport but the whole series comes as a package...The Giro, La Vuelta the great one days Liege baston Liege, Paris roubaix thats the real history of the sport. A part of me is sad for Lance but the main part of me knows that cycling is best rid of him
     
  15. Roparadise

    Roparadise BANNED BANNED

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    It will never be "clean" but they may cover it up better in the future. Drug use is so common in law enforcement professional sports,and even in the military. But they all look the other way until there is a leak and then certain people are made an example of.

    And just because certain sponsors are bailing doesn't mean you cannot get more,as well as other methods of monetizing the event.
     
  16. Duffers5000

    Duffers5000 Elite Member

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    There will probably always be someone who can find an edge but it can be a whole lot cleaner than it was. Professional cyclists are currently the most tested athletes on the planet. Back in the day the sport was full of disgraced doctors and struck off Pharmacists who openly worked with the top teams. Testing was commonplace but Cyclists where getting inside info on exactly when they would get a visit. Just look at the tour times for the last few years...miles slower than the EPO days. The sort looks much more like a clean sport now.
     
  17. SEOWhizz

    SEOWhizz Power Member

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    If you don't want to believe it that's Ok, there are some who never want to admit they're wrong, and will make up any excuse to believe in a man accused of lying, bullying and cheating.

    Your previous statement is still wrong, because it's clearly stated by ASO that UCI regulates the Tour de France in their rules.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  18. johnhunter

    johnhunter Regular Member

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    What I can't understand is why someone that has just beaten cancer would start taking drugs that could potentially make any remaining cancer cells come back with a vengence?

    It all seems like a witchhunt to me with his former teammates probably being paid off to give evidence, also why do his teammates that got caught for the same thing only get a 6 month ban yet he is banned for life?
     
  19. SEOWhizz

    SEOWhizz Power Member

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    You have to realise that Armstrong was already taking banned drugs prior to his cancer, and some of these drugs had the ability to cause cancer.

    Why take drugs? EPO/doping have the potential to turn an average rider into a Tour winner. It's not just the Tour win(s), but the multi-million dollar sponsorship contracts that are lucrative enough to tempt riders, not forgetting the need to perform consistently over a grueling season to get another pro cycling team contract.

    They admitted to doping, and they are pretty much all or close to retirement, so received an amnesty. Armstrong's never admitted to using any drugs at all. He even dropped his legal case against USADA in August.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  20. Tensegrity

    Tensegrity Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    It's really weird to me that anyone would defend a person who cheated in sports. The whole purpose of any sport is ultimately to celebrate human physical feats, so taking drugs to win is pretty damn unfair. If drugs were allowed to be taken, that would be a totally different matter, but they aren't.

    Stop defending the guy, he did nothing right here.