LOL you get to decide what IM'ers do and don't do? Seems like quite an abstract matter to make suggestions about tbh.
The NSA's github page
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LOL you get to decide what IM'ers do and don't do? Seems like quite an abstract matter to make suggestions about tbh.
t2van
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I'm fairly sure that's not what @bartosimpsonio is saying.
IM in a traditional sense would and not be going off and trying to use NSA reverse engineering framework.
In fact I'm 95% sure any traditional IM job advertised i.e a 9-5 working in an office that wouldn't be a requirement (left the 5% for the insane people who advertise a job not knowing what they really want)
So what he's saying is anyone who might be trying to encourage a little creativity or talk about anything even remotely related to anything 'under the hood' can gtfo bhw in other words.
That's my point - is there one? Not sure how many people looking for jobs, at least in tier one countries would call themselves 'Internet Marketers' as opposed to something a little more clear-cut industrially speaking? Why do you think that might be?
ExperimentalSEO
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People In IM use tools and there's others in IM that offer tools as a service, reverse engineering software is something that makes sense for some IM.
Reverse Engineering is not something that is illegal if the software that is being studied is one that has legally been purchased.
Don't talk about debugging assembly, or PHP or even gnu licensing here. It's not IM!!!!
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t2van
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Nope never said he said that, not trying to put words in my mouth are you?
Well:
Defining Internet Marketing
Also called online marketing, internet marketing is the process of promoting a business or brand and its products or services over the internet using tools that help drive traffic, leads, and sales.
You could argue that "tool" your NSA code cracking falls under that... but day to day general use of doing some PPC, marketing and SEO .. does it really? No.
In fact if your going that far into it then your no longer really doing marketing are you? Your looking at building out a product or service...
Never said it was illegal.
IF "IM" was full of reverse engineering software guys or experts why hasn't anyone come up with a cheaper Ahrefs, taken on the task fo breaking the google code and that.. after all thats where the money would be yeah? There is no other reason to try and reverse code something from an IM stand point.
But nope doesn't happen because as I said in a "traditional" sense of IM that's not what it's about.
If your looking at IM to pull some code apart to get a better understanding what else would it be for? A product or service so again your stepping away from marketing and doing something different.
ExperimentalSEO
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If the modified/new software enhances your ability to market, then it is marketing.
t2van
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How? Tell me what you're doing or what your modifying that is defined as "marketing" ... as the outcome might be marketing BUT what you are doing i.e the "modified/new software" it is not.
Just because the outcome is marketing i.e the tool purpose does not mean the outcome or the journey you take to get there is all Internet marketing? Otherwise, I might as well call my car an Internet marketing tool, my pen does internet marketing, my toilet roll is an internet marketing machine.
ExperimentalSEO
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It can be part of the process of Internet Marketing.
t2van
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Ok so using toilet paper in the morning is the process of internet marketing. So your one of these guys who has no appreciation for the skill and effort people put into this trade thats why there are so many "SEO experts" and I use that term loosly as we all do it. IT's just internet marketing. I hope you are never in charge of hiring someone, someday.
What you are describing as far as I'm concerned is not the process of internet marketing. The outcome might be. BUT the journey or process there isn't.
I had a shit and eat my breakfast this morning before getting in the car. But that was all part of the process of driving. So by definition me sitting on the loo and eating breakfast I was, in fact, driving... better watch out for them speeding fines
My future APP I want to build ill just go to an SEO agency. Rather than a developer. Cool
Well a lot of what's being discussed is putting words in mouthes from implying someone is involved in nefarious activities to one person apparently speaking on behalf of the entire forum to decide what everyone should and shouldn't be doing on here. So excuse me if it might cone across that way.
LOL although I can't disagree with the intent, I feel telling someone what relates to acheiving such outcomes is definitely against the entrepreneurial spirit that underpins any 'IM' endeavours - this is hardly an objective or exact science so why is it so important to confine it to some rigid semantic? What purpose does that serve?
And what purpose does this discussion serve other than to antaognise otherwise very passive thread and because yous have nothing better to do, that might be helpful to some related but that cleary don't concern you or this @bartsimpsonio.
Yes, you could
Thanks I will ask you what I should and shouldn't be doing everyday and what generic labelling I should give it next time I feel it's going help me pay my bills and taxes.
Defining Internet Marketing
Also called online marketing, internet marketing is the process of promoting a business or brand and its products or services over the internet using tools that help drive traffic, leads, and sales.
umm...
Anyway, it's nearly 9am here and I haven't even had my morning coffee and i've got tonnes of IM related (or not IM related depending on who you ask) stuff to catch up on. So I will continue this very profound and throughly useful discussion on text-book definitions on rather arbitrary concepts later tonight if it's that important.
ExperimentalSEO
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Ok so using toilet paper in the morning is the process of internet marketing. So your one of these guys who has no appreciation for the skill and effort people put into this trade thats why there are so many "SEO experts" and I use that term loosly as we all do it. IT's just internet marketing. I hope you are never in charge of hiring someone, someday.
What you are describing as far as I'm concerned is not the process of internet marketing. The outcome might be. BUT the journey or process there isn't.
I had a shit and eat my breakfast this morning before getting in the car. But that was all part of the process of driving. So by definition me sitting on the loo and eating breakfast I was, in fact, driving... better watch out for them speeding fines
My future APP I want to build ill just go to an SEO agency. Rather than a developer. Cool
In order to market online you need computer hardware and software. Having more efficient hardware and software increases the performance of marketing.
t2van
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@Hanzo_AA sweeping statements again with no valid point. You highlighed this part from the definition
Also called online marketing, internet marketing is the process of promoting a business or brand and its products or services over the internet using tools that help drive traffic, leads, and sales.
Yup that's correct internet marketing is the process of promoting a business or brand and it's product or services. Thanks for highlighting the very point I'm making.
Enjoy your coffee.
@ExperimentalSEO I'm not even sure we are discussing the same topic.
Also called online marketing, internet marketing is the process of promoting a business or brand and its products or services over the internet using tools that help drive traffic, leads, and sales.
Yup that's correct internet marketing is the process of promoting a business or brand and it's product or services. Thanks for highlighting the very point I'm making.
Enjoy your coffee.
@ExperimentalSEO I'm not even sure we are discussing the same topic.
ExperimentalSEO
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Why are you trying to turn an entire Industry down into a single career path that isn't allowed to have skills outside of marketing?
t2van
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I'm not.
You are simply telling me that reverse engineering something or using a computer is all internet marketing.
Like I said if that's the case driving my car, eating food, using a pen I'm internet marketing all day and I didn't even know it. I can use my left and right hand to write with a pen, I must be an ambidextrous internet marketer. Next time I need a side hustle I'll have to charge more.
Now what's worse is your calling an IM a career path with no definition of what that career is, I've pated here what the definition is but you and @Hanzo_AA are telling me that's just a label.
I'm not saying you can't have skills outside that job requirement far from it, it no doubt helps your day to day job thrive and grow and can offer additional services. WHAT you are telling me is no matter what I do or what skills we use it's all Internet Marketing ... when in fact. It's not.
ExperimentalSEO
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I'm not saying its all internet marketing, because some people that do reverse engineering do so for purposes other than for marketing.
t2van
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I think some of these guys should just shut up and stick to generating their clients ahrefs report as they clearly don't understand how value-chaining in IM works - as an industry - in any industry, that there's more to being involved in IM than simply being a consumer.
Some people are just not going to get where we're coming from. I don't know why but they're just not.
They're happier wearing their rose-tinted glasses feeling they 'know' everything there is to 'know' about pseudo-academic terms with ever-changing rules and ramifications coined by technological companies that both "teach" and leverage the same ideas themselves for the sale of growth. Not many sure how many people that relate to IM have said they made their millions by doing things by citing text book definitions about things. Not sure how many will either.
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