jazzc
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By their production capacity. Not everyone is an employee, so "wage" doesn't encompass everyone. Production capacity encompasses both "sweat" production and capital production.
Taxation.
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By their production capacity. Not everyone is an employee, so "wage" doesn't encompass everyone. Production capacity encompasses both "sweat" production and capital production.
jazzc
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That's not true. Productivity is determined by capital accumulation. A non-lazy farmer with a tractor is many times more productive (read: wealthy) than a non-lazy farmer who can't get one. Same goes for every sector of production. IM is accessible because the capital accumulation required for participation is lower that other industries.
Capo Dei Capi
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If you want to live in a place that promotes "social equality" move there if you want to focus on making money move to a place that has low taxes. No need to make it a whole global thing.
a 'wage' gap is a natural phenomenon of a free market. But i'm pretty sure you're talking about the artificial wage that, again, is implemented through a show of force in the name of social justice. the wage gap your talking about is actually the result of not letting the market flourish by forcing businesses to pay a minimum wage. by forcing a minimum wage, you make no possibility for fluctuation in spending for the company, so better workers cannot be rewarded, because the tax mafia must have a certain amount of profit set aside to pay its discrimination-free 'cannot be fired' class of society. Having this articial wage gap, created through the minimum wage(zero point for their 'wage gap') and taxation(the higher your income, the more you pay us), prevents anyone but this global banking elite from growing exponentially. Actually it saps us of any true accomplishes in the market we have and takes it for itself.
The ultra wealthy people of the world love taxation, because they can use the mob to extort capital from any successful venture and prevent it from really flourishing and becoming autonomous.
The wage gap caused by the 'minimum wage' or the 'we are the moral authority and will force you to pay whomever we deem worthy', surely creates difference within society. Such as those who are rewarded for participating in college and espousing the 'we're going to need half your cash to do good in the world' rhetoric so common among them, and those who choose not to and seek the more rigid DIY path, that unfortunately can be filled with many painful tedious jobs like burger flipping since the motivated hard worker is never truly valued as he is no more important then say, a crackhead. However, to sum up the difference in societies wealthy and poor, as simply a gap in their wage, totally ignores the big picture and disregards the obvious that those who ARE the ultra wealthy operate 100% outside of any tax limitations or income bracket.
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unfortunately, it is a global thing, because they need to bleed the hard workers for their 'social equality'
Capo Dei Capi
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Not all nations rip people off when it comes to taxes, several in eastern europe have really low taxes. There are also some Caribbean nations and Asian nations with near zero or low tax rates as well.
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places you'd really want to live though based on that alone?
Sounds like places filled with turmoil, but i guess that's just my paranoid western bias. I'd rather be somewhere where someone doesn't have motive to kidnap me for ransom.
Capo Dei Capi
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Cayman Islands
Dubai
Singapore
Bulgaria
All nice places to live in, with no turmoil.
Sure well if everyone wasn't taxed to death I'm sure they could make a million dollars and move to a tax safe haven in a gated community with a strong western backed military presence to keep the war torn and fragmented neighboring countries from kidnapping to many tourists.
myopic1
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I understand the sentiment of what you say but surely you acknowledge that some taxation is required for basic infrastructure etc?
I'm not saying the UK has it right with how they assign tax rates, they don't, from a moral standpoint though a number of projects i.e the NHS and legal aid, that they spend their tax money on are incredible institutions that as a UK citizen I'm immensely proud of. That's not to say there aren't failings in tax expenditure and indeed with the examples I gave above, there's shocking levels of waste and inefficency but the overall impact of the UK's taxation is a net benefit for the population.
Taxes at a certain level are inherently good. Coming from a industrial background, previous generations would voluntarily pay into a cooperative funds (in essence a form of taxation) which would in-turn benefit the entire community, much in the way that people voluntarily pay into the running of unions voluntarily, without any threat other than their own exclusion from the system.
jazzc
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Not at all, and historically that has not been so. Since you mentioned the UK, take a look for example the roads around the era of the industrial revolution in England and France. Britain: tons of good quality private roads connecting every place, France: nothing but swamp quality gov owned paths except roads connecting army bases to big cities. Google "Turnpike Trusts".
Nothing wrong with paying voluntarily for services. That's not taxation. There's no "voluntary" section in the tax code as far as I know.
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very interesting, I guess the governments must also be aware of this though and probably do set the taxes to their advantage - ie they probably know that if they increase or decrease they would lose out rather than gain so they keep them where they are.
There are probably many other factors that it would effect as well so I think it is a fine balance.
As a business/self employed person you just need a good accountant I guess.
There are probably many other factors that it would effect as well so I think it is a fine balance.
As a business/self employed person you just need a good accountant I guess.
myopic1
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Perhaps specific examples of roads isn't the best for my point, although you could argue that a large number of non-industry related roads wouldn't have been built at all. I'm not sure where the private road are that you're referring to though, there's a few bridges but to the best of my knowledge the majority of roads/infrastructure are maintained and owned by government backed agencies like the Highways agency, paid for with tax revenue.
Let's take loss leaders like education which for the most part industry would not fund as perhaps a better example. What company in their right mind would pay for a 3 year old in a remote village to attend nursery school? Disregarding third world countries that depend on charity that is.
There's a parallel between the paying voluntarily for services and taxation. Taxation is mandatory, true but only because if you live in a country (or own a business there) you actively participate in the 'system' and benefit from it, to live in a country and not be forced to pay tax would be tantamount to enjoying the benefits of a union for example and not paying the voluntary fees...i.e stealing.
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jazzc
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They probably got "nationalized" I suppose. Besides, there is no reason for the industry to pay and build your own when you have a mafia stealing and doing it with other people's money, is there?
The company called "the kid's parents".
That's a common "argument" and too easily refuted. Here's two(!) refutations.
a) Ok, how about you ALLOW me to PAY for the stuff I actually use and not tax me? You know, like I do for everything else that I'm allowed to? Oh the horror!
b) Did the plantation slaves owe their "masters" because they provided them with food and shelter? For using their roads? For drinking water from their wells?
tony_d
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Jazz will beat anyone to death on this point...
It goes like this: "do you support the initiation of the use of force against me?", and always ends the same way
D
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Employment law obviously varies and in some countries I agree, it has got to the stage where employees are in the preferred position but, as long as the reason is not discriminatory and outside of a set time period, everyone can be fired eventually. Therefore there is possibility for fluctuation in spending and that doesn't include the opportunity for reducing capital costs if necessary.
A minimum wage is exactly that, it ensures a minimum wage is paid. It therefore isnt a 'uniform wage'. Firms can still reward employees, albeit with a little inflation as they possibly would not have initially paid workers as much as the set wage but as long as the wage if above the wage floor, they can do as they please. The minimum wage is an attempt to improve the standard of living as well as reduce the size of the wage gap and therefore the inequality. It came after the wage gap as a supposed remedy, it didn't come first.
Had it not been for their higher income or wealth, they would be unable to employ the best accountant that is aware of the latest tax loopholes nor be able to implement them. Setting up the best of the loopholes isn't cheap at all. A simple case of a barrier to entry, which could be seen increase inequality and the 'difference within society', mentioned earlier.
jazzc
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Actually, it's an attempt to crowd out competition and creates permanent unemployment.
D
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The unemployment debate is something else, perhaps for another thread. But which government has intentionally crowded out investment?
jazzc
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Not sure what you mean so I will answer generically.
Governments crowd out investments to promote privileged groups "special interests".