Taxation.

mqsss said:
Go to Slovenia. Want to get a $6000 paycheck every month? No problem. It will cost your employer $15000. For every $1000 above $5000, your employer will have to pay additional $2000+ to the government for you. Do you have your own company? Want to cash out $50k of profit at the end of a successful year? No problem, just pay a little bit above $20k to the government.

And the situation here is fucked up. If you are rich, you are marked as being a criminal. The majority of people believe that one can't succeed without being a criminal or inherit shitload of money.

Expensive cars are even more expensive in my country because of higher taxes and idiotic fees. A local FB group posted in the news that there was a $300k sold in my area. Comments below that posts were like "And they think they are paying enough taxes? They aren't if they can afford expensive cars like that".

My country is notoriously known for enviousness. It's not a problem if your paycheck is $1000 per month. The problem is when your neighbor (whom you hate) has $1200 per month and he drives a 2 years newer Renault Clio.

I'd like to take this opportunity to tell socialists that if they weren't there when a successful man worked 16 hours per day for nothing, if you weren't there when he didn't go to vacations because he had to work for nothing, then don't be there when he reaches a financial freedom.
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That seems like a pretty terrible tax system (not what I was advocating) and definitely not good taxation/government.
 
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mqsss said:
Go to Slovenia. Want to get a $6000 paycheck every month? No problem. It will cost your employer $15000. For every $1000 above $5000, your employer will have to pay additional $2000+ to the government for you. Do you have your own company? Want to cash out $50k of profit at the end of a successful year? No problem, just pay a little bit above $20k to the government.

And the situation here is fucked up. If you are rich, you are marked as being a criminal. The majority of people believe that one can't succeed without being a criminal or inherit shitload of money.

Expensive cars are even more expensive in my country because of higher taxes and idiotic fees. A local FB group posted in the news that there was a $300k sold in my area. Comments below that posts were like "And they think they are paying enough taxes? They aren't if they can afford expensive cars like that".

My country is notoriously known for enviousness. It's not a problem if your paycheck is $1000 per month. The problem is when your neighbor (whom you hate) has $1200 per month and he drives a 2 years newer Renault Clio.

I'd like to take this opportunity to tell socialists that if they weren't there when a successful man worked 16 hours per day for nothing, if you weren't there when he didn't go to vacations because he had to work for nothing, then don't be there when he reaches a financial freedom.
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The government of Slovenia has to be in the top 10 for worst run governments. How can they not realize how with the small 2 million population all it would take is a few corporations registered their to pretty much fund all the social programs that they want for their citizens, and their citizens could pay nearly 0% taxes.
 
myopic1 said:
'A necessary evil' is not what I said no (you have my exact quote above), I believe that they are not inherently evil but are necessary for good government. 'Straw man' is the term for your argument and snake example, not sure where that came from but it's a pretty left field point to make.
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Not sure how you got a 'straw man'. I didn't set forth a argument rather I interpreted what you originally said, considering you did say you didn't think the UK had it right... You acknowledged it 'doesn't have it right', so you know somethings wrong. I don't want to quibble over definitions, I get it, you don't think theft is evil if you get a cut of the plunder. As for the snake example, I think it's a perfect example of the state of mind many tax proponents take. A necessary evil, if you will. A little bit of theft will help the overall society/economy function better, just as the snake venom will make the receiver immune over time. clear?

I didn't actually mention the economy in the post that you're refuting above, so I don't see how you're countering any of the points I made. There's no denying that taxation effects the economy though as Tony's original post demonstrates but had I mentioned the economy, I would have cited an example where intervention is necessary and that is in the breakup of cartels, where supposedly everyone acting for themselves benefits the masses.
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Where do you think the government gets the taxes to build the shit your proud of? the economy. Intervention is needed by the most powerful military moral authority cartel ever, the government, to breakup the criminal rackets that only exist because the government won't let anyone intervene but themselves? give me a break.

Going back to a point I made earlier, I think most people would accept that there are weak and vulnerable people in society who through no fault of their own and circumstances beyond their control find themselves unable to care for themselves or function without some form of assistance. Now some argue that you leave nature take it's course and survival of the fittest should prevail, meanwhile suffering goes unchecked and the poor roam the streets in large numbers, lose-lose for everyone and not just a moral issue.
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I don't think anybody is saying don't help the poor people. But you don't need to strong arm the brightest hardest working people in our civilization into being charities. the prices go up because of regulation, the barriers to entry prevent free flow of capitol. Preventing others from entering the health market prevents competition which reduces development of medicine. period.

And others would argue that the scarcity that taxation causes on the economy and thereby strain as a whole on the market and society, actually invokes the flight or fight response by forcibly preventing capitol from being released freely into the market, creating gangs and black markets alike out of the desperation caused by the scarcity taxation causes. which results in crime, drug addiction, abuse, war, and a number of other terrible situations including a loss of cultural identity which we can see clearly nowadays as a result of the welfare system.

There's a reason governments, tribe elders and leaders exist and occur naturally even in remote civilisations where this supposed 'entitled pampering' hasn't reached and that's because the masses can't take care of themselves 100% of the time, or circumstances occur where direct intervention of a higher authority is needed, probably what you would term 'Daddy' or what I would call good government. For me taxes are an extension of good government and empower the people that we have deemed worthy to rule us to actually get things done, of course I know there are abuses and failings that terms like 'pampering' sometimes fit.

One thing to note is that you actively choose to live under a particular system or in a particular country with set rules, where you enjoy the benefits of that system, the solution is pretty clear.
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i think a tribal chief or elder is a little bit different then a massive military intelligence agency holding a entire economy hostage. One's a little bit more inclined to actually care if something bad happens to you considering they actually know you. The other is simply pampering your needs to serve it's own purpose as a bug worker in the tax colony, and doing so, from the cold calculated distance.

I said this early, sure, the solution is clear if your not one of it's millions of slaves that hasn't broken out of the grips of the financial system. You act as if you can just hitch hike at the airport. Ya sure. Let's totally ignore how many people can't just pick up and leave a place because of the financial limitations. and it seems by implying the choose is obvious, despite the clear financial limitations many would face, you assume... that's all their fault... what happened to that good old charitable attitude for the unfortunate I just heard so much about?
 
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The government isn't as powerful as you think, due to outsourcing some of their supplies with bad contracts as well as their social programs being outsourced and costing more than "inhouse".
 
STKMKTFTGRU said:
The government isn't as powerful as you think, due to outsourcing some of their supplies with bad contracts as well as their social programs being outsourced and costing more than "inhouse".
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I guess to clear it up, I think the mafia behind the government is that powerful, not specifically the government agencies it controls.
 
DanDanger said:
Tell that to the UK.

I've read repeatedly that each year the UK has a new high for businesses and entrepreneurs leaving the country due to stiffing taxation. It's a downloads spiral: raise taxes, drive more rich away, panic about loss of taxes, rinse and repeat.

The highest paid 3,000 people in the UK pay more income tax than the bottom nine million.

Not only does UK suffer paralyzing taxation but the media insists on running a 'hate the rich' crusade. No wonder the wealthy are leaving in record numbers.

It's interesting that Japan, Dubai, Monaco etc all have extremely low taxation (Monaco and Dubai even offer 0% income tax) and these economies are flourishing.
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Income tax isn't that much in the uk if you have your own company, around 20%. The problem is big companies pay no corporation tax here, not income tax
 
1morenoob said:
Income tax isn't that much in the uk if you have your own company, around 20%. The problem is big companies pay no corporation tax here, not income tax
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The amount of money you keep in the company would be taxed at that rate, but when you pay yourself you still have to pay the high personal income tax.
 
STKMKTFTGRU said:
So the UK doesn't tax salaries?
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He's probably going to the point of what they call in Australia a 'fully franked dividend'. I suspect the UK has a similar arrangement.

If you're a shareholder of a company whose profits have been taxed at 30% (Australian corporate tax rate), when those earnings flow to you as a dividend, they're 'tax paid' up to the 30% level - so if you're on a 30% tax rate as an individual, you don't owe any more tax. If your tax rate is less than 30%, you'll get the difference refunded.
 
tony_d said:
He's probably going to the point of what they call in Australia a 'fully franked dividend'. I suspect the UK has a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend_imputation#United_Kingdom.

If you're a shareholder of a company whose profits have been taxed at 30% (Australian corporate tax rate), when those earnings flow to you as a dividend, they're 'tax paid' up to the 30% level - so if you're on a 30% tax rate as an individual, you don't owe any more tax. If your tax rate is less than 30%, you'll get the difference refunded.
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The UK ended theirs in 1999, but what about for owners of company in Australia it seems that there may be restrictions on them for doing it.
 
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