Sudden Ranked Drop? Google Algo Update?
- Thread starter wawangjan
- Start date
- Oct 9, 2013
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Ok. Fair enough. You've made a statement here, and I'm open to this being true, but you'll need to put some facts/evidence on the table here.
Ok, you've said "DO" in caps. This is nice, but I'd like to see some actual evidence this is the case otherwise it's just your opinion. I could just say
Google DO communicate with aliens for the purpose of abducting blackhat SEO's. (Please don't take offence, I'm just teasing you here.
Can you show me some industry analysis/proof of some sort that Google have made updates in order to drive blackhat SEOs and small businesses to buy more google ads?
Show me a link seller in the Inc 5000. I would really like some hard facts and not opinion. No offence, but opinion is meaningless in these things. I backed up my statements with logic and facts. I have an opinion, and I may be wrong, but I try to show people the reasoning/logic behind my opinions. I am not saying you are right or wrong. What I am saying is that for you to change my opinion(And I am open to that), you need to show me facts/evidence for me to evaluate. You need to show me facts/evidence and tell me why you believe what you believe and how you personally see those facts and how they connect together.
There are agencies on the Inc 5000, and those agencies do a variety of marketing services, including paid ads. I would like to see some pure link sellers.
I'm telling you that I'm of the opinion they don't care.
Now, consider this. And please, be open to what I'm saying because it makes sense.
You are Google. You have $150,000,000,000. Billion. In non-current assets. Basically cash.
You really do care about those link sellers. They are hurting your business. You are seriously concerned. You want to get rid of them.
Would you
1) Mess around with your core algorithm in order to beat them
or
2) Just go on the places where they sell, buy their services and deindex their products.
You say the Google anti-spam team, have an official presence here.. So answer this.
How does this guy exist?
https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/pbn-ranking-case-study.1170062/
He's shared his site. miamiseobitch.com
He's shared his pbns. He's told us he's ranked purely with pbns.
He's told us how many.
They are right there, visible on ahrefs. Clear as daylight.
They have been indexed since 2017.
They are still indexed now.
He is #1 for seo miami. #1, a solid 1. He's also #1 for a bunch of others and top 7 for many more.
He's blatantly taking the piss out of his competitors. Where are all these Google anti-spam guys?
It would be SO UNBELIEVABLY EASY for Google to get rid of all the link sellers if they really actually cared.
Create account on bhw. Buy jrvip. Post a little, then go and buy some services. The cost is nothing. Heck, they could have dozens of accounts here, buying all the packages to domains of their choosing. They don't need reports. They can see the backlinks.
Bye bye sellers.
Why don't they do this?
Maybe a bit harder for guys selling web 2's, comments and gsa blasts, but huge pbn sellers. They could be put out of business instantly. There's not THAT many.
What about Matt Diggity? My god, he's so public.
He sold his company for millions and it became The Rank Club. They still exist. They are making something like $1mil per month on link rentals.
Why does Google not just buy their product and deindex them?
And wait, what's this?
Well look at that! PBNs on Google Ads. And Google is even helping you out.. People also search for "How to build a pbn". Yes, this is a big concern for them
Now, I don't know about you, but if I was sitting with $150 billion in cash, and this was a real executive level concern for me, rather than dick around with the core algorithm, and all the headaches that creates for THE ENTIRE PRODUCT and basically the whole Internet.. I would just simply buy up the pbn services. Deindex. Buy up the guest posts. Deindex. I would compile a list of all the pbn/money site domain sellers(And there aint that many). I'd create an account there, and guess what, you can see all the urls. They all show you the urls. Me included. There's a little list of domains to deindex.
Heck, they could just put together a team to monitor godaddy auctions. Look for any domain with SEO value and deindex it or put it into a "review box" where it gets scrutinized to make sure it's a legit company buying it for a legit purpose and not SEO value.
So, after all that, PBNs basically don't exist. There are no sellers. At least none that can advertise anywhere that Google will see. There are no domain sellers. It's damn near impossible to get a domain at auction, because Google has a team deindexing domains with SEO value, or at least monitoring all domains with SEO value to see if PBNs go up. The costs with this are far less than messing with their algorithm.
So what's left? Guest posts. Ok, how about this to make it near impossible to get guest posts.
Put together a team of 1000 people. $10 per hour. 40 hours a week. That's $20 mil per year. Pocket change for what they'll supposedly gain.
Have that team be actively doing guest posting. They're contacting site owners offering money for links.
Uh oh, site owner has agreed to give a link for $250. Official response goes back "This is an official warning from Google. You have been caught offering to sell links. Your site is now under review and if you continue to break the terms of service your site will be removed from the search listings."
Run that for a year and see how easy it'll be to get a guest post.
Now, what does that leave? Tools?
Ok. Let's wipe out the tools.
The lawyers come out for this one.
Some of you may remember a certain tactic that used to be used on eBay until eBay went after the people doing it. It's now so illegal and taboo that I won't even say its name.
Now, what happens if Google brings its might down on GSA, xrumer, senuke, every other tool and even sites like fiverr. Heck they can just deindex fiverr for selling shady blackhat SEO.
If they really were inclined to, they could wipe these tools off the face of the planet.
I don't think you realize just how powerful a large company like Google are.
Guys.
Google don't really care. They have more important things to do.
They are letting blackhat seo providers ADVERTISE on their site.
Imagine you have a site. "easycleaningmagic.com". It's an amazing cleaning product. But there's this awful group of people out there telling everyone you're a fraud and your product is bad. They are killing your business.
Also, you're renting banner space to them on your website.
Would you not just remove the banner and be done with it?
Don't know what more I can say on this.
- Mar 22, 2013
- 6,279
- 10,988
sure you are right. But some guys on here make it sound like “the problem are 301s” or “its because of expired domains” and thats just wrong and misleading. The “update” is still going on. On my behalf I see lots of changes everytime i refresh the serps. This thread has 17 pages now. I was reading every single post and my conclusion is there is not much in common.
- Oct 9, 2013
- 3,471
- 14,481
That's because it is a few things.
Updates are never 1 single tiny variable.
301's are part of it. Whatever the change is, certain 301's are having a detrimental effect.
This includes 301'ing old pages on your pbn/money site to the homepage, which is a practice that has been bad for some time.
- Oct 9, 2013
- 3,471
- 14,481
Wow, Google really is out to get the blackhat SEO industry. We are doomed.
They hate us so much, they're willing to just make updates to get rid of us instead of just buying up a 1000 site plan on ebn and deindxing everyone using them and blacklist the IPs that ebn uses.
lol, just lol.
Maybe they could start with banning the guys selling link services from Google Ads before more extreme measures? But no. The updates are definitely so they can get rid of link sellers, so people buy more Google Ads.. So that they can have MORE CHRISTMAS MONEY YAY.
Last edited:
assaultclass
BANNED
- Oct 18, 2018
- 371
- 210
I think Google targeted a slew of blackhat tactics with this year's updates, not just one like they used to.
And those of you who benefited from this update, don't be too fast to conclude that you are doing everything right. Where are there losers, there will be winners. Of course Google won't penalize every single blackhat site in one update, so your gains may have simply been due to luck.
I wish everyone goodluck in maintaining/recovering their rankings.
tammyblogger
Junior Member
- Aug 6, 2013
- 171
- 77
Hi sorry, it was a typo I meant a blank file, yes I remember we got hit at the same time, hang in there. I have had some sanity restored and fewer headaches this morning as my brain actually hurt from trying to figure it out, so I have everything crossed for you to come back to...
Shopllc
Power Member
- Apr 13, 2017
- 622
- 234
Do you mean small sites were replaced by auth sites after an update back in 2016, and later small sites bounced back again?
TomTheCat
Elite Member
- Oct 27, 2019
- 2,372
- 2,768
Yeah, something like this. But for my keywords there weren't to many small sites. Either authority websites or pure spam. From my point of view, this is a EAT update.
RAYRAY7
Regular Member
- Nov 17, 2007
- 403
- 299
Wow, Google really is out to get the blackhat SEO industry. We are doomed.
They hate us so much, they're willing to just make updates to get rid of us instead of just buying up a 1000 site plan on ebn and deindxing everyone using them and blacklist the IPs that ebn uses.
lol, just lol.
Maybe they could start with banning the guys selling link services from Google Ads before more extreme measures? But no. The updates are definitely so they can get rid of link sellers, so people buy more Google Ads. So that they can have MORE CHRISTMAS MONEY YAY.
While I do agree with some of your points your conclusion is far from what I have observed:
1 - Google is not interested in driving out all the SEO link sellers because they perform a valuable service from which the Algorithms can be tweaked. For example in many large cities in America Cops, FBI, DEA does sometimes allow criminal syndicates to thrive for many years before charging them with any crime. The Govt will purposely charge the top bosses and leave the underlings to continue the criminal enterprise. Google is well aware the ranking system is open to abuse and manipulation. The best way to keep some type of order is to create chaos every now and then, just to ensure everyone is guessing as to what will help sites to rank.
2 - It is my belief that Google does have spies here and at other forums. The spies might be just here to observe, monitor and report trends. The big thing now is "NICHE EDITS" You can bet your bottom dollar that Google is well aware of this and trying their best to confuse webmasters.
3 - Why would Google allow PBN services if it is mostly used to violate their guidelines? Same reason why they allow porn, bomb-building manifestos, hacking techniques, etc. Money is the number one reason, and the deniability of censorship is a close second. Better to have backlinking techniques out in the open where they can be observed than have them all move underground.
4 - Google is well aware of all the backlinks you build. Another trick I have noticed is for them to index the backlinks despite the fact that most will not help push the ranking needle upwards. A Google insider once revealed they get the most useful data from all the backlink indexing services.
5 - Regardless of how much cash or cash equivalent Google is holding they're burning through cash at an astronomical rate. So, having that much money or valuation does not mean they're not greedy or have evil intent.
THE TAKE-AWAY FROM ALL THESE UPDATES
1 - The updates will continue as that is the most effective way to keep everyone guessing as to what will move the ranking needle.
2 - The intention is to make SEO a game for the bigs boys with the funds and the know-how. Gone are the days of creating thousands of backlinks and hoping to rank. Nowadays, quality and relevancy should be looked at before creating any backlink.
3 - At present, backlinks are required to rank, but not all are created equal. The most powerful backlinks are hard to acquire unless you have the means and the right connection.
Lastly, is Google pure EVIL? From what I know about the company definitely, YES!
They hide the most important ranking data.
The rules of ranking can be broken by some sites but not others. Some of the so-called authority sites are violating Google guidelines on a daily basis with no punishment.
Does Google want to wipe out all the SEO LINK SELLERS? Not in a million years because they help in so many ways. Better to have the "rule breakers" out in the open than to drive them underground.
fasttrak
Elite Member
- Sep 12, 2016
- 3,514
- 3,988
Got to be honest here. I really am not interested in is google bad, after us, a business doing business things, assholes or god. I simply want to know what is causing a drop in rankings. Maybe worth starting a new thread to feud with each other, or simply get a room.
Sorry, when we get to the point of big coloured text, it is time to move on.
Nope, fresh domain.
- Oct 9, 2013
- 3,471
- 14,481
1. That doesn't apply to SEO. Yes, they let them operate for years, but do you know why? Because they need to build a case against them. You can't just go and arrest the head of a syndicate without a LOT of evidence. It can take years to build up a case. If they could do it tomorrow, they would do it. Google doesn't need evidence. They can just shut everyone down if they want.
3. This is a faulty argument. They don't allow porn, bomb-building manifestos OR hacking. At all. Read the google ads guidelines. You're using a straw-man argument here. They're in the google index, yes. I am talking about google ads. They allow pbns/link services. They don't allow the things you mentioned.
4. A google insider also said that expired domains lose all value. Google doesn't need ahrefs/majestic.
5. Really? Let's have a look at their balance sheet and cash-flow statement.
First the cash-flow statement.
Ok, the first important one here is "Net cash provided by operating activities" -- This is the cash left over for the year after all their operating expenses. So far in the current year that's $53 billion.
Next is "Net cash used for investing activities". -$24bil in capital investment(plant & machinery), -$96 investments and +$89 sales/maturities of investments. Net is -$31.6 billion.
Next, net cash from financing activities. half a billion debt repaid and 15 billion common stock repurchased. -$18 bil here
That's about 53 - 24 - 96 + 89 - 0.5 - 15 = Approx $6.5 billion.
Their operating cash flow is increasing each year.
Their cash at the end of the period is fairly stable. $16 billion in 2015, $13 in 2016, $10.7 in 2017, $16.7 in 2018 and $16.2 just now.
I don't see any burning through cash at an astronomical rate.
Let's look at the balance sheet.
Looks pretty healthy to me. I still don't see any burning of anything at an astronomical rate.
Year on year, cash as we saw in the cash-flow statement is steady.
Short term investments(1 year or less to liquidize) is increasing by quite a bit, as is net receivables and inventory. Overall their total current assets(everything that can turn to cash in 1 year) is going UP UP UP.
Let's look at the non-current assets..
57 billion, 62, then 72 and 97 last year. Also going up. Total assets are increasing yearly.
But that doesn't tell the whole story. You could have $100 billion in assets and $150 billion in liabilities.
The accounting equation is assets = equity - liabilities. So equity = assets - liabilities. This tells us if the company is in the positive or negative.
2015 - $147 billion equity.
2016 - $167 billion equity.
2017 - $197 billion equity.
2018 - $232 billion equity.
Ok, so I don't see where they are burning cash at an astronomical rate. All current asset types are increasing year on year. Non-current assets are increasing year on year. Liabilities are increasing at a slower rate than assets. Total equity is increasing substantially year on year.
What have I missed here? Can you show me where they are burning cash. I'm not sure where this evil/greedy thing comes into it. I'm only interested in financial facts. Valuation has nothing to do with it. Google's current market cap is currently $931.78B
What I'm talking about is their actual figures. The price to book ratio of google is 4.78. Market cap / (equity-preferred stock). They aren't valued that high. They have the assets to back it up, otherwise no one would be interested in them. If they were really burning through cash their share price would be dropping and it would be time to short them
Please, stop with the "Pure evil" stuff. I feel embarrassed for people that keep talking about this. This is a business forum. Successful business people do not call other companies "evil" because they are successful. They are not evil. They have given the world access to almost any type of data they want at the touch of their fingertip. Just because they don't let someone spam the serps with scammy offers to make a quick buck does not make evil.
3. This is a faulty argument. They don't allow porn, bomb-building manifestos OR hacking. At all. Read the google ads guidelines. You're using a straw-man argument here. They're in the google index, yes. I am talking about google ads. They allow pbns/link services. They don't allow the things you mentioned.
4. A google insider also said that expired domains lose all value. Google doesn't need ahrefs/majestic.
5. Really? Let's have a look at their balance sheet and cash-flow statement.
First the cash-flow statement.
Ok, the first important one here is "Net cash provided by operating activities" -- This is the cash left over for the year after all their operating expenses. So far in the current year that's $53 billion.
Next is "Net cash used for investing activities". -$24bil in capital investment(plant & machinery), -$96 investments and +$89 sales/maturities of investments. Net is -$31.6 billion.
Next, net cash from financing activities. half a billion debt repaid and 15 billion common stock repurchased. -$18 bil here
That's about 53 - 24 - 96 + 89 - 0.5 - 15 = Approx $6.5 billion.
Their operating cash flow is increasing each year.
Their cash at the end of the period is fairly stable. $16 billion in 2015, $13 in 2016, $10.7 in 2017, $16.7 in 2018 and $16.2 just now.
I don't see any burning through cash at an astronomical rate.
Let's look at the balance sheet.
Looks pretty healthy to me. I still don't see any burning of anything at an astronomical rate.
Year on year, cash as we saw in the cash-flow statement is steady.
Short term investments(1 year or less to liquidize) is increasing by quite a bit, as is net receivables and inventory. Overall their total current assets(everything that can turn to cash in 1 year) is going UP UP UP.
Let's look at the non-current assets..
57 billion, 62, then 72 and 97 last year. Also going up. Total assets are increasing yearly.
But that doesn't tell the whole story. You could have $100 billion in assets and $150 billion in liabilities.
The accounting equation is assets = equity - liabilities. So equity = assets - liabilities. This tells us if the company is in the positive or negative.
2015 - $147 billion equity.
2016 - $167 billion equity.
2017 - $197 billion equity.
2018 - $232 billion equity.
Ok, so I don't see where they are burning cash at an astronomical rate. All current asset types are increasing year on year. Non-current assets are increasing year on year. Liabilities are increasing at a slower rate than assets. Total equity is increasing substantially year on year.
What have I missed here? Can you show me where they are burning cash. I'm not sure where this evil/greedy thing comes into it. I'm only interested in financial facts. Valuation has nothing to do with it. Google's current market cap is currently $931.78B
What I'm talking about is their actual figures. The price to book ratio of google is 4.78. Market cap / (equity-preferred stock). They aren't valued that high. They have the assets to back it up, otherwise no one would be interested in them. If they were really burning through cash their share price would be dropping and it would be time to short them
Please, stop with the "Pure evil" stuff. I feel embarrassed for people that keep talking about this. This is a business forum. Successful business people do not call other companies "evil" because they are successful. They are not evil. They have given the world access to almost any type of data they want at the touch of their fingertip. Just because they don't let someone spam the serps with scammy offers to make a quick buck does not make evil.
It's clear that you did something to get from zero to over 300 in a short period of time. It's also obvious that whatever you did, google didn't like it and put your website right where it was before. Did you build links, bought PBNs, did redirects?my site has dropped in rank since monday
CliveTheSnail
Regular Member
- Mar 27, 2019
- 294
- 94
Rankings are still going up for me! Finally at #1, beating a competitor who has ranked for the local keyword for 5+ years! Must be an early Christmas present "shrug"