SmartMan - Shitlist

@ Nigel- The mods have been very patient with smartman, and I believe the judgement was fair.

I understand that you are friends with him, but you really should try and take an unbiased look at Smartmans actions. This is business, and although it seems I only lost $400 dollars, I lost more than that.

Smartman didn't tell me, "Hey man I have a family member in the hospital" or something like that. He told me he spent the money I gave him to invest in another business, and thats why he couldn't refund me. He was spending all his time on that project, and thats why he had no time for mine. So, I appreciate you offering to help him pay his debt, but I would not recommend you doing that based on the situation.

My Pal jazzc replied well for the above post by nigel.

I delayed the ban of smatman by providing him chance to come back, as I feel he is a good contributor. But his non responsiveness leads to Perm ban. Still smartman can come back, once he repays the OP. Here staff of bhw working their best to find solution to who lost the money and banning is our last option used, when we find there is no way to safeguard other members.

No More Post after this except OP's Updation of Refund, if any.

Smartman has resurfaced on Skype, is sorry for the situation and wants to make it right.
According to him, Logician is the only BHW Member he has an issue with, and agrees with the $400 amount mentioned earlier. About 5 minutes ago, I sent $100 to Logician via PayPal. (Unique Transaction ID # 6LE446354A746251G).

Smartman and I have worked out an agreement where he will do $100 worth of work to pay me back for the money I have loaned him, and would like to work in order to earn the remaining $300. I have suggested that he contact all of the clients that he has worked for successfully in the past, and find out if there are any opportunities there to help get him out of this situation. I'd also like to mention that if any other Members would like to help, they can contact Smartman via Skype and maybe he can do some work for them.

To those that are reading this with a skeptical eye, I would like to let you know that I am aware of all the different ways this could turn out. During my time on BHW I have seen other situations where one Member takes a risk in order to help another Member, and those situations do not always resolve the way that those that were trying to help had planned. Sometimes people with the best of intentions get burned.

But in this situation, with this person, I'm certain that Smartman will do whatever he can to make Logician whole, and get himself back on his feet, for the reasons I've described in a previous post. So if someone has work to be done and is "on the fence" about helping, please consider my contribution as a statement of my faith in Smartman's ability to pull himself out of this situation and avoid another. Maybe someone else can help too.

For what it is worth it is a tough old road these days - and when the sh1t hits the fan many people go on the back foot...

I have a host of problems that negate my opportunities to make money...

But against all the odds i still survive and when I have been fighting the odds SmartMan and 2011nfl were amongst the first to chip in and provide support to me...

It does not always pay to kick a member when he is down...

steelballs said:

It does not always pay to kick a member when he is down...

Click to expand...

I completely agree with you, it does not pay to kick a member when he is down, but what I am confused about is what member are you talking about that is being kicked down? Am I missing something here? Based on the reason Smartman gave for not doing the work, or paying the refund, it did not sound like he was "down." From his own words, he was too busy investing in another business, meanwhile my business has to suffer because of this, mainly with loss of time. I was told I would receive a review within 24 hours, and I waited about a month before creating a shitlist.

This is not even about the money, this is about the principal of the matter. If Smartman had been honest from the beginning, this shitlist would not have been created.

@Nigel - I appreciate what you are doing, but I'm actually a bit confused on why you would pay another mans debt. It almost seems like its just for show imho, because why not just pay Smartman for whatever work he's doing for you and let him use that money to pay me? It seems like a more simple and logical thing to do.

You need to wake up, people. You make heroes out of people you barely know or have worked in the past. Remember this is Shitlist and this post is approved for a reason. No matter what happens a person has to be responsible for his clients. This is a professional forum and wrong doing has to be punished before it evolves and takes really bad turn(Remember Kimi,BeingAkrant and many other lazy ass). Any sympathy you have for smartman keep it private. No need to make heroes out of scammers. I don't know him personally but any person who don't lack common sense can make out that smartman has scammed logician and he deserve what he got.

Nigel Farage said:

Smartman has resurfaced on Skype, is sorry for the situation and wants to make it right.
According to him, Logician is the only BHW Member he has an issue with, and agrees with the $400 amount mentioned earlier. About 5 minutes ago, I sent $100 to Logician via PayPal. (Unique Transaction ID # 6LE446354A746251G).

Smartman and I have worked out an agreement where he will do $100 worth of work to pay me back for the money I have loaned him, and would like to work in order to earn the remaining $300. I have suggested that he contact all of the clients that he has worked for successfully in the past, and find out if there are any opportunities there to help get him out of this situation. I'd also like to mention that if any other Members would like to help, they can contact Smartman via Skype and maybe he can do some work for them.

To those that are reading this with a skeptical eye, I would like to let you know that I am aware of all the different ways this could turn out. During my time on BHW I have seen other situations where one Member takes a risk in order to help another Member, and those situations do not always resolve the way that those that were trying to help had planned. Sometimes people with the best of intentions get burned.

But in this situation, with this person, I'm certain that Smartman will do whatever he can to make Logician whole, and get himself back on his feet, for the reasons I've described in a previous post. So if someone has work to be done and is "on the fence" about helping, please consider my contribution as a statement of my faith in Smartman's ability to pull himself out of this situation and avoid another. Maybe someone else can help too.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the update. But logician is not only the member who had trouble. If you check some of the posts there are other members who got suffered by smartman.

Others "Do not post if it is not helping logician or smartman". Infraction will be issued.

Logician said:

@Nigel - I appreciate what you are doing, but I'm actually a bit confused on why you would pay another mans debt. It almost seems like its just for show imho, because why not just pay Smartman for whatever work he's doing for you and let him use that money to pay me? It seems like a more simple and logical thing to do.

Click to expand...

This is why:

Nigel Farage said:

...but when someone does you a substantive favor like SmartMan did for me, that is MONEY in the BANK as far as I am concerned, and it buys a good bit of loyalty from me, hence this post....

Click to expand...

Because as far as I know, Smartman is an anonymous person on the internet. All I have to judge him by are the immediate experiences I've had with him, and although I like to think that I'm good at extrapolating a person's character based on limited information, smarter people than me have been burned here. So, while on the one hand I am compelled to assist Smartman, the purpose is to right the wrong that you have experienced.

What if I trusted him, and he took the money and ran? Then there would be two victims, and I would look like a class A, 100% dumbass. So, common sense tells me that YOU get the money, and we'll see if Smartman does what's right and makes you whole again. *I* think he will, and am willing to risk $100 on the question. But that doesn't necessarily mean I've lost my common sense.

Logician, when I look at things from your perspective, it appears to me that you might feel like somehow Smartman is the victim, and you are the evil ogre making this poor man's life miserable, when in fact you are the victim in a situation that was caused only by Smartman. You paid some serious money, and invested some trust and faith into another BHW Member and got burned. And, not only did you lose the $400, but you also had to suffer disruption caused by the financial loss as well as the failure to complete the work as it was agreed upon. That disruption has a financially definable value, and perhaps Smartman should be made some "punitive" damages, in addition to compensating you for the loss of your money, in order to compensate you for the hassle, emotional disruption, being forced to take your private business to a public arena, etc... If it makes you feel better, maybe your could quantify this "extra" and tack that on to the $300.

Anyways, I don't think you are the bad guy. Smartman needs to take his lumps. You need to be made whole in a way that you are okay with. And I acknowledge that is the most important consideration in this thread.

BigBuddy said:

If you check some of the posts there are other members who got suffered by smartman.

Click to expand...

To my knowledge, only Logician has definable financial losses. It was my impression that others were inconvenienced and annoyed by "flaky" service, but do not feel they are owed money, but I could be wrong.

Nigel Farage said:

To my knowledge, only Logician has definable financial losses. It was my impression that others were inconvenienced and annoyed by "flaky" service, but do not feel they are owed money, but I could be wrong.

Click to expand...

I was one of the people who was inconvenienced by "flaky" service, however the only reason I didn't lose money was because I didn't pay upfront. However, even though I still didn't pay upfront I still made an agreement with Smartman to do the work. Because I was under the assumption he would actually do agreed upon work I declined other candidates for the job.

When it turned out that he never did it, never responded to my skype pings and essentially ignored every chance I tried to contact him, not only did this cost me valuable time, it still indirectly cost me money. You should NEVER take on work if you have no intention of doing it (which is exactly what he did). While what he did to me is not shitlist worthy, it certainly speaks to his character and work ethic, especially since other members have spoken up with similar stories.

Why you continue to defend him when he so clearly is in the wrong is beyond me. If you look at this from even a remotely reasonable point of view you will see that he completely fucked over Logician. There is really no possible way to come to any other conclusion.

He took someones money for work, didn't do that work and spent the money on something else. Now I'm all for being reasonable, maybe he was sick, maybe family issues, whatever. But taking the money and spending it on another project is utterly ridiculous. If it was up to me I would never let him rejoin the forum, even if he paid Logician back.

Anyways, those are my two cents, and I'm sure many other members of this forum will agree with me on pretty much everything I stated above.

mdsurf said:

I was one of the people who was inconvenienced by "flaky" service...

Click to expand...

Well, are you making a financial claim against him, or not? If yes, then what amount to you feel that you are owed?

@Nigel Farage, it is appreciated what you did for the parties concerned but now I think its time for you to gracefully bow out of this thread and let the mods who are handling it continue to do they're job.

tymillz said:

... its time for you to gracefully bow out of this thread ...

Click to expand...

Agreed. I'd like to thank Forum Staff for their patience and tolerance.

After opening dispute with paypal, 350 was reclaimed. Out of $100 nigel sent, I sent back $50. $400 has now been recovered thanks to Paypal and Nigel Farage.

Thank you everyone in the bhw community including mods for the support in helping resolve this matter.

Thanks a lot BB for opening thread.