Shitlist against xcodes (hostdel.com)

Hi,

pretty straight forward shitlist right here.

So we bought an email sending panel from @xcodes Their website is hostdel.com

They are advertising email marketing with 95% inbox rate as you can see in their thread here: https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/e...old-mass-mailing-scale-up-your-leads.1198612/



Our main goal here was to find a provider that lets us send emails to OUR OWN LIST (not public cold emails) of around 100,000 clients. We asked the seller if
that would be possible, he said yes and recommended a $408 plan that lets us send 30k emails daily.

We DO NOT do any spam, cold emailing or anything like that. It's very important to mention cause those are all people who know about our products etc. they
will not file any complaints or report the emails as spam.

After setting up the account (we also had to buy an aged domain for $20) we were given access to the panel and were told the warm up process was started.
We actually waited 3 days before sending our first test campaign to around 2,200 people first. Once we sent it we have experienced disastrous results.

The open rate of the email was around 1% which usually should be around 20%. Our main issue here is that this is simply NOT what has been advertised.
There is no point in using this service and pretty much all of the emails that are being sent out are going to the spam folder.

We got NO CLICKS to our website! Even though it says 5 click on their panel we actually got NONE according to Google Analytics (we are using actual tracking links
for each email).

We asked the seller why this is happening and they are bluffing and saying we have to warmup more and it's "all for the long run" type stuff. Why would we pay
$400 a month to hit the spam folder with NO GUARANTEE that it will actually work? Are we supposed to keep paying and just hope that one day it will
actually be delivered?

So we asked the seller nicely to issue a refund, deleted the panel and call it a day. We even offered him to deduct a few % from the refund amount
for his VA that helped us set up the panel and also his server cost. He denied. I will post all screenshots of my convo with him below.

Proof of bad delivery of email (almost all hit spam, normal open rate is around 20% minimum):



Seller telling us which plan to choose:



Seller saying we need to warmup etc. which is fine but no where does it state that the email delivery will be SO BAD! How would a customer know
its basically going to be worthless. And how long would the warmup take how long am I supposed to wait for results. All of this should be made clear.
He is using the warm up as an excuse now while we actually did warm up the domain using his service.



This is him after we kindly asked him for a refund TWICE. He is talking around it and using the warm up excuse as a bluff. He is also saying he can't
delete the server etc. While it is very easy to do. There was basically no cost on his end only for his VA and maybe some server cost. We only send one failed
email to 2k people.



Again he is talking around the bush trying to reason his scam by stating false technical facts.



He keeps going on about how he can't technically do anything which is of course BS!



Would love to get this issue sorted asap!

Thanks!

Proof the other party has been informed of this shit list:



What we hope to gain from this shit list: Full Refund

Information For The Accused
@xcodes, you have 24 hours to respond to this shit list thread. If you do not respond within 24 hours or we note that you're engaging in any other activities on the forum rather than dealing with this dispute, the decision will be made in favour of the Shit Lister and you will be permanently banned from Black Hat World. In the event that you're permanently banned from the forum, you may send in a support ticket using our support channel only once you've refunded and/or provided what the plaintiff has requested.

If your responses to this dispute do not remain prompt, your account will be banned.

Information For The Accused & The Shit Lister
Please remain professional as name calling, insults, griping, tu quoque, and ad hominem will not be tolerated. Should the Shit Lister resort to this, the dispute will be forfeit; and if the accused resorts to this, the dispute will automatically be in the Shit Lister's favour.

The moderator mediating this dispute is simply trying to fair a resolution to this dispute. Any mod abuse or accusations (e.g., "you're biased", "you're protecting scammers", etc) directed toward the moderator will not be tolerated and may result in an infraction for mod abuse.

Information For Other Members
If anyone else has the same issue with the accused, you may respond so long as you supply evidence in the form of screenshots, videos, etc.

Please bear in mind Shit List rule #4 before responding.

"If you are not directly related to the situation, or are not offering information directly related to the situation: do not post in the thread. Anyone caught doing so will receive an infraction and be reply banned from posting in the thread."

FAQ Point 14. B point please.

And please check our PM conversations before the sales start only i was keep on asking customer he his aware of warmup or not and i cleared said him mailers doesn't come with any Reputation and he needs to warmup himself.

We didn't hide anything from him before sale only.

Hope Customer is clear with things.. I really don't want to paste conversation with our staff on telegram here ..

Thanks

xcodes said:

I really don't want to paste conversation with our staff on telegram here ..

Click to expand...

You need to do that.

Okay sure. Short summary ..

Mailer Type : Bulletproof
Customer didn't even wanted to warmup and started complaining on 2nd day of sending only ( It took almost week to be here ). And even customer was beginner team was patiently helping with him almost everything like List , campaign created , warmup everything.

We clearly told him to warmup and everything will be fine.. If he asked for 100% inbox we wouldn't sold him this services in 1st place. Cause he was on bulletproof mailer.

All Telegram Chats are below since they are too many.
https://ourtube.fun/export_TG/
Thanks

Allow me to chime in with my unbiased opinion here.

I do email for a living. My input is based on data, stats, and years of mailing.











To the seller: You should never advertise any kind of inbox guarantee unless you provide already warmed-up services with a proven track record.

To the buyer: You can't load a list (whether organic, spam, purchased or a scraped list), hit send and expect to hit inbox. Mailing is hard and getting harder day by day. You should warm up your servers for at least one month, starting with your best leads, and gradually increase the volume while monitoring spam rate & bounces.

In my opinion, you're both at fault.

The seller because of the 95% inbox promise.

The buyer for not having a clue what you're doing.

To the mods: Feel free to remove this post if it doesn't help.

P.S Mailwizz open rate data are inaccurate because Gmail uses a proxy to fetch in your tracking pixel and mailwizz counts that as an open.

Just adding, mod can remove if this does not help.

In seller’s thread it is mentioned that the 95% guarantee on inbox is on their shared pool servers, buyer is subscribed to seller’s BULLETPROOF server which if I read correctly it’s a server on dedicated IP address, which means it certainly require warming up for at least a few weeks before it can reach the performance that buyer’s ask.

I guess deciding this case will need to be about reading the communications between buyer and seller whether on or off BHW.

Also, most public email hosting nowadays like gmail, yahoo, outlook, protonmail all have the same proxy flow to load external contents in email, so open rates are never 100% accurate.

Hope this helps.

xcodes said:

Okay sure. Short summary ..

Mailer Type : Bulletproof
Customer didn't even wanted to warmup and started complaining on 2nd day of sending only ( It took almost week to be here ). And even customer was beginner team was patiently helping with him almost everything like List , campaign created , warmup everything.

We clearly told him to warmup and everything will be fine.. If he asked for 100% inbox we wouldn't sold him this services in 1st place. Cause he was on bulletproof mailer.

All Telegram Chats are below since they are too many.
https://ourtube.fun/export_TG/
Thanks

Click to expand...

First, I was not saying I didn't want to do a warm-up. I was OK with warming up, but the way it was communicated was wrong and left me in the wrong spot.
Impression.

Warming up is one of your features that improves the delivery of our emails. The way it was communicated sounded like it's just going to be warmed up for a few days or a week, and we'd get super high open rates.

Your guy also told me I could run my campaign to my list after three days. Why would he tell me if he knew the delivery rates would be this bad? Shouldn't he have said we still need more warm-up?

Also, the dedicated server has a better certainty if the IP is clean, even if we have to warm up; also, we sent to our list, which we are currently sending by Amazon SES, and believe me, each email gets delivered. Although they are transactional emails, not even one ever went to the spam, and at the same time, we are using our server on the helpdesk from SES. Every single email gets delivered.

The so-called Bullet Server, which doesn't have shared resources but a dedicated IP, failed to deliver and even shows fake stats, which are invalid.

The whole point of the dispute is that there was a massive misunderstanding of what the service was compared to what we thought it should be based on the advertising and talking you guys did.

Therefore we want a refund. As said, we have yet to use your service—just one email. We even offered you a partial refund option when we asked you. In our business, we don't have the luxury of having huge arguments over refunds like that. You issue them if the customer has valid complaints.

And you where expecting inbox in one day of warmup ? We clearly stated on BST sales thread , on PM , on chats everywhere that Warmup is required on bulletproof mailer and more over your promotions are SMM which are almost hard everywhere without warmup expecting results are not possible.

And We said 95% inbox is for public mailers which are not used for any cold mailing or others.

Here problem is your not willing to warmup or handle your own mailing even at last when you requested for refund our staff was setting up and doing mailing for you and that was only for 1 day. Exactly after 32 hours you came back to us for refund comparing about other platform open rates.

All we can do is cancel your recurring and your mailer will be alive until end of billing date. Using mailer or not we will leave that to you cause our resources are being used from the second your domain is linked to our Bulletproof SMTP package.

Thanks

The problem is not about warming up here; the problem is about the expectations. You should've been cleared from day one that we need to wait for weeks to check results, but your staff member asked to start from the 3rd day, and we're not talking about doing cold mailing here but sending to our own freaking list. Who buy from us, and those who are our current clients.

That's your server, and you should have given clear instructions before that we need weeks and weeks, and it would be $800 for two months, and then our mail would start to deliver. Who waits for this much?

A customer can ask to cancel his recurring subscription anytime; that's not a big deal. We tried under your and your staff's influence, and it didn't work for us as you advertised on BHW. So, we are requesting a full refund, not even a partial now, and also leaving this now on MOD to decide who is not cooperating here and come to a proper resolution.

Week ? Warmup can take 90 days = 3 months also .. How much clear instructions we should give ? Where we already mentioned you each and every details via PM , Sales thread and on Telegram too .. Email marketing and promotions are belong to you and your promoting to your customers How shall we define exact time frame on warmup ?

Even developer who created SMTP cannot give you exact time on warmup duration.

In that case you would have choosen public mailer for 59$ .. You clearly mentioned its SMM promotions and huge list

Customer can always cancel the services we agree that on 100% but only when below conditions are true

1) SMTP not working or issues with email panel.
2) No support

Above both conditions are good with your case and you where getting fully managed support from our staff just like personal staff. And even you go with Amazon or Google no one will promise you for open rates or conversion its based on your template and the list you HAVE..

We promised to provide you bulletproof mailer which can handle cold mailing .. Inbox and open rates are totally depends on customer List , template and working style if your expecting results in just couple of days or hours its not possible..

If your not going to warmup your mailer there is nothing we can do here. On invoice date your services will be terminated without any notice.

Thanks

BuyFame said:

your staff member asked to start from the 3rd day,

Click to expand...

Can you share screenshot proof of that?

BassTrackerBoats said:

Can you share screenshot proof of that?

Click to expand...

But bro warmup is something which is not stable customers can warmup in 1 day some 90 days based on sending , complaints , bounce things go up and down. We never promise any customers that warmup is done in certain time or date. But we tell them to warmup in stages which are 7 , 14 , 30 , 90 days based on their mailing type.

We give them options with minimum warmup which can be found on this page.

Even on the forum or via PM or on Sales thread we never told any customers that there is specific warmup time. Its entirely based on customers mailing our job is to handle their complaints and give them fully configured SMTP.

Thanks

xcodes said:

But bro warmup is something which is not stable customers can warmup in 1 day some 90 days based on sending , complaints , bounce things go up and down. We never promise any customers that warmup is done in certain time or date. But we tell them to warmup in stages which are 7 , 14 , 30 , 90 days based on their mailing type.

We give them options with minimum warmup which can be found on this page.

Even on the forum or via PM or on Sales thread we never told any customers that there is specific warmup time. Its entirely based on customers mailing our job is to handle their complaints and give them fully configured SMTP.

Thanks

Click to expand...

I didn't ask you; I asked the accuser.

BassTrackerBoats said:

Can you share screenshot proof of that?

Click to expand...

Yes of course!

So here you can see that the seller clearly said we can send 30,000 emails right from the get go. He does say warmup but
again no where does it say that the warmup is supposed to last for ages the way he makes it seem right now.

Everything he said made it seem that we could basically get started right away and that there would be a few days of "warmup" maybe.
He also didnt mention that the deliver rates would be so extremely low even without warmup.

Again the whole point of the dispute is that we were made to believe that this service is different than it actually is.



Here he is clearly saying "Daily you can send 30k emails for 30 days for $395." That gives the buyer (us) the impression that
this is what we can do! But infact we WERE NOT able to send any emails in an effective manner at all.



If this would have been a fair conversation he should have told us exactly how long it takes to warmup and that deliver is not guaranteed!
He was talking around the bush to make us buy his service!

Also here he says "warmup is activated for 7 days.. you can simply go with list upload and START doing cmapaings.." which indicates
we can do campaigns right away and it should work right?



There is no way on earth that you signup for a $400 a month email service and then just hope it will work a month or 2 after that and keep paying $400
just for hoping.

Now we get it customer doesn't know the meaning of warmup.

He wants to send 30k per day even in warmup. That is the reason we said him to remove warmup and just send 30k per day for remaining days. And 7 days warmup was activated on services delivered day and customer he didn't even warmup for complete 24 hours exactly in 32 hours he came to us for refund.. Comparing with other company open rates.

400$ are for bulletproof and daily sending is 30k for 30 days only if you dont decide to warmup and you know what your doing.. And when word warmup means slow sending and gradually increasing to gain reputation on sender domain.

Here problem is customer expecting inbox or open rates which are totally based on customer list , email template , and how their customers react on received emails which we cannot control.

And customer deleted all his campaigns and logs from frontend email panel today ..

These where SMTP delivery stats.

Mailing Report :

--------------------------------------

And customer is keep on highlighting and trying to show that we said him not to warmup.

Example :

in the images he can clearly see daily quote is 4k , 8k , ETc., which gradually increases to gain reputation and its called warmup. But still he asked for 30k people. So we said upload 100k list directly and email panel will manage automatically based on warmup quote. But we dont mean to send 100k on same day.

And on the PM when he keeps on asking for refund. We said customer to remove the warmup and send in full capacity for atleast remaining days.. That was happened.

----------------------------------

but now customer deleted all his campaigns and logs maybe he saw the open rates might be increasing or something else.

We are still clear from our side if its our mistake we wont argue this much its clearly customer decision not to use services and since they are bulletproof mailers we said we cannot simply allot to next customer without our mistake.

And we can issue refund if SMTP is not working or email panel is not working.

So please provide SMTP or email panel not working or relevant proofs here , And we will request moderators to review on your given proofs if they decide to refund you we will process it.

Sorry for any spell mistakes.

Thanks

xcodes said:

Now we get it customer doesn't know the meaning of warmup.

He wants to send 30k per day even in warmup. That is the reason we said him to remove warmup and just send 30k per day for remaining days. And 7 days warmup was activated on services delivered day and customer he didn't even warmup for complete 24 hours exactly in 32 hours he came to us for refund.. Comparing with other company open rates.

400$ are for bulletproof and daily sending is 30k for 30 days only if you dont decide to warmup and you know what your doing.. And when word warmup means slow sending and gradually increasing to gain reputation on sender domain.

Here problem is customer expecting inbox or open rates which are totally based on customer list , email template , and how their customers react on received emails which we cannot control.

And customer deleted all his campaigns and logs from frontend email panel today ..

These where SMTP delivery stats.

Mailing Report :

--------------------------------------

And customer is keep on highlighting and trying to show that we said him not to warmup.

Example :

in the images he can clearly see daily quote is 4k , 8k , ETc., which gradually increases to gain reputation and its called warmup. But still he asked for 30k people. So we said upload 100k list directly and email panel will manage automatically based on warmup quote. But we dont mean to send 100k on same day.

And on the PM when he keeps on asking for refund. We said customer to remove the warmup and send in full capacity for atleast remaining days.. That was happened.

----------------------------------

but now customer deleted all his campaigns and logs maybe he saw the open rates might be increasing or something else.

We are still clear from our side if its our mistake we wont argue this much its clearly customer decision not to use services and since they are bulletproof mailers we said we cannot simply allot to next customer without our mistake.

And we can issue refund if SMTP is not working or email panel is not working.

So please provide SMTP or email panel not working or relevant proofs here , And we will request moderators to review on your given proofs if they decide to refund you we will process it.

Sorry for any spell mistakes.

Thanks

Click to expand...

You keep talking and talking cause you dont wanna issue the refund.

Just for the record the I didn't delete any campaigns! I only deleted the list from your site cause there's not ready why you should still have our lists on your site now.

I guess that also deleted the campaigns which doesn't matter since the thing is cancelled anyways. And you saying I did that cause the open rates got higher now?
Everyone knows that with emails the first 48h are the most important theres no way open rates will just go up magically on a 10 day+ old campaign.

Mods please make a decision on this one!

Thanks!

BuyFame said:

Just for the record the I didn't delete any campaigns! I only deleted the list from your site cause there's not ready why you should still have our lists on your site now.

Click to expand...

Customer doesn't even aware of how email panel works when you delete list it will ask you campaigns associated with list will be deleted + logs of sent and received aswell.

We really don't need to talk and talk we just asked you simply proof that show that SMTP is not working or email panel, We will initiate your refund. We didn't promised you open rates or conversions here its based on your reputation on sending domain.

If you don't know how to use the system you would have simply ticket us that you don't know how to use and we would happily issued refund but its too late not after all this.

Your services will be terminated on 22nd of November 2022. Using it or not is entirely based on you .. And when you accused us with services you shouldn't have touched anything so that moderators will check details but your keep on removing your tracks here. You might also delete the chats with our staff on telegram and for safe side we backup complete chats so that moderators will check them too.

Thanks

xcodes said:

And when you accused us with services you shouldn't have touched anything so that moderators will check details but your keep on removing your tracks here. You might also delete the chats with our staff on telegram and for safe side we backup complete chats so that moderators will check them too.

Click to expand...

Sorry for intervening; I chose not to reply to this conversation. I believe I'm directly affected now, and our business is badly affected and would be affected if our personal list had stayed on your platform. So, I asked my partner to remove the list as soon as possible. It's up to the moderators what they decide; the point of the dispute here is that your services are not as promised, and that's our right to remove our data from the panel. No one is removing the chats.

If we should get refunded, that's up to the mod to decide. We just opened the dispute here for fair trial as the services have been purchased on BHW and not elsewhere.

Also, @BuyFame is on a flight right now, so he cannot reply here for the next 12 ~ 24 hours!