SEO is DEATH - LEO is the future

_griffin_

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LLM Engine Optimization -
This is basically how you optimize for LLMs to find you.
Spoiler - is the same shit as (as far as i know) to SEO but on bing search.

I know bing search is what most LLM use behind scenes to recommend products to users.
Each big tech company has its own medium tho - twitter for grok, bing for chat gpt, google for gemini

- Not sure what anthropic uses - anyone knows?
I also assume bing search ranks the same way google, it does?
 
LLM Engine Optimization -
This is basically how you optimize for LLMs to find you.
Spoiler - is the same shit as (as far as i know) to SEO but on bing search.

I know bing search is what most LLM use behind scenes to recommend products to users.
Each big tech company has its own medium tho - twitter for grok, bing for chat gpt, google for gemini

- Not sure what anthropic uses - anyone knows?
I also assume bing search ranks the same way google, it does?
Bing’s ranking algorithm is slightly different from Google’s, but many core SEO principles still apply, like quality backlinks, relevant content, and engagement signals. As for Anthropic, they haven't explicitly stated their search source, but it’s likely a mix of curated data and partnerships. Optimizing for LLMs might evolve beyond traditional SEO, so keeping up with AI-driven search trends is key!
 
LEO is like SEO, but it helps models like ChatGPT
rank content is clear and relevant
 
One thing does not kill the other
 
LLM Engine Optimization -
This is basically how you optimize for LLMs to find you.
Spoiler - is the same shit as (as far as i know) to SEO but on bing search.

I know bing search is what most LLM use behind scenes to recommend products to users.
Each big tech company has its own medium tho - twitter for grok, bing for chat gpt, google for gemini

- Not sure what anthropic uses - anyone knows?
I also assume bing search ranks the same way google, it does?

( _griffin_: This reply is not directed AT you. I'm talking about the general "you" as in the people who are promoting LLMs. Anywhere I say "you", it's not you, but them. ;-) )

I will say that I haven't done any deep research into this, so my opinion is just based on my intuition and experience in both SEO and psychology.

The whole "AEO" or whatever other new buzz word marketers will come up with is IMO snake oil.

POINT 1)

LLMs are not search engines.

They need to USE a search engine that already exists.

That means chatgpt is using either Google or Bing. I don't know what they use or if it's been confirmed, but they've definitely not written their own crawler/indexer/ranker.

That means if you're not on page 1 of Google or Bing, you aren't even going to be considered by an LLM.

POINT 2)

The second point that makes this a scam is that LLMs are complex black boxes.

You're trying to tell me the best AI engineers in the world don't know how it produces tokens, yet you(them) want us to believe that you have worked out how to game the system so that they choose your pages over others?

POINT 3)

Even if this was possible, there is no RANKING inside chatgpt, claude or perplexity, they are not ranking. They just choose some pages and give you answers.

Most people are not even going to click after reading. They will just ask questions.

Perhaps if people do search perplexity for "find me a plumber in nyc", then sure, they'll click.

But here's an example:

1740847675785.png



Top result here is "Rite".

Rite are the highest on Google organic. #2 behind yelp

1740847716203.png


So is this really "LLM optimization"? or is it just ranking on Google and then LLMs deciding who to pick from the top 10? And I doubt they'll pick the guy at the bottom of page 1 ;-)

And perplexity are using Google. No way they're using Bing. If you search bing for "find me a plumber in nyc" all you get is spammy plumber listing pages.
 
Most probably the LLM will become intelligent on your content and the providers will make the link so small that everyone will forgot to click on it or not at all see it. In the long run they don't want you to bounce from their pages.
 
I'm trying to understand the idea of LEO without searches from users.


Most LEO are dependent on information they feed on.
They might be decent in quick research but definitely not going to replace new search trends by users
 
SEO isn’t dead; it’s just shifting. AI and LLMs are changing how content gets found, but things like quality content, backlinks, and user experience still count. Instead of picking between SEO and LEO, the smart move is to adapt and make both work for you.
 
LLM Engine Optimization -
This is basically how you optimize for LLMs to find you.
Spoiler - is the same shit as (as far as i know) to SEO but on bing search.

I know bing search is what most LLM use behind scenes to recommend products to users.
Each big tech company has its own medium tho - twitter for grok, bing for chat gpt, google for gemini

- Not sure what anthropic uses - anyone knows?
I also assume bing search ranks the same way google, it does?
Yeah, Bing’s ranking probably works like Google’s, but who really knows their secret sauce? Big tech’s got their own playgrounds: Gemini leans on Google, Grok trolls Twitter/X, and Anthropic? No clue, maybe they’re sneaking Reddit or just vibing with their own data. Either way, it’s all about gaming the algorithm, just with extra steps and AI jargon.
 
It’s about making content more understandable and relevant for LLMs
 
For now, SEO still wins over LEO, unless in the future LEO makes a huge leap forward or brings other benefits to people like being free to use.
 
I wouldn't overlook LLM SEO. It's just like Google SEO in 2003, everyone thought it was a scam because they didn't understand how to game it
 
Yeah, LEO is basically SEO 2.0—just tailored for LLM visibility. Bing ranking is similar to Google but less strict. Anthropic likely uses a mix, but hasn’t confirmed. Optimizing across platforms makes sense now more than ever.
 
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